Lack of Oil in the Modern Era

[Angmar]

I fired up a game this weekend and managed to get into the Modern Era before I packed it in for the night last night. Now I have come up against a serious issue with the world I am playing on and Im thinking it would be best for me to just give up on. I played on a standard size pangeaic landmass with the least land. The world is some what shaped like a barbell. One each end there has been one culture has has taken over. To the north, myself with the Americans, to the south Germany.

I have scoured the map like crazy and only Germany has oil. Now this hasnt been that bad for me as to get to me Germany in general has to stick everything on ships and land them on my shores. However I now fear that I will not be able to beat Germany no matter how hard I try. I am playing with only military victoria conditions so I cant pop out a spaceship and get the hell of the planet before Germany and their oil take over the world.

Germany's oil is right near the shore so in theory I could invade and take their oil away and try and secure it myself. However there are a few things that make this very very difficult.

1> Transporting my invasion force. I will only be able to use iron clads and galley's for the naval portion of the battle. Germany is not close and there is alot of Sea in between us. At four units a Gallery its going to take a huge number to get everything there let alone escorts that would only be good for taking damage not defeating the German battleships

2> Once I get there the most Ill be able to do is fortify my infantry on a hill nearby, quickly pop up a fortress, and hold ground with my infantry and artillery. However Germany has HUGE Army, the largest in the game. This normally doesnt bother me as I use my troops better. However my assault force is Infantry and Artillery. I do not believe that Ill be able to land a suitable assault force that will not be instantly crushed by wave after wave of modern armour, tigers, and mechanized infantry.

So while I feel I can hold off the German forces from my territory, taking the war to them is an entirely different matter. Currently I have a pile of cruise missiles waiting for the German battleships and transports to show up off the shore and I sink them. I have sent an untold number of tanks and such to the bottom of the ocean in sunk transports. This however will not win me the war. There are only 3 other nations left, I have scouted them, they dont have oil. Only germany has oil. And this sucks

Anyone have any thoughts?

 

[Beam]

Aren't these the challenges Civ is all about?

Some options, most based on your textual info. A pic of the minimap might help here:

a) Invade and attack, then hold ground. Quite suicidal the way you describe it.

b) Form alliances against Germany with the other nations. Let them weaken Germany first, help them a little with that, then get what you want. If the Germans are in Democracy their citizens are not going to be happy about it.

c) Trade for whatever conditions if you do not need the cash etc. for something else. Gives you 20 turns to build your force, assuming you have the techs.

d) Just wait. Oil is one of the jumpy resources and might land in your territory. But how close is Germany to a vic type?

e) Invade, attack and conquer a German city with oil, start building units requiring oil immed. in all your cities. This should give you a much stronger defense force.

Given the information I would say c) if the Germans want to trade, d) if there are plenty of turns left. Then a) but always combined with b). If Germany is close to victory a) or e) but always combined with b).

My 2 cents.

 

[DaDoo]

how close is the oil resource to your or american border? If it's about 5-6 tiles in, get a ROP and military alliance with the americans and attack german. Gun for the city with the oil resource and take that city as soon as you can. Afterward, just bunker down inside that city with everything you've got and hope for the best.

 

[Chieftess]

There have been Riflemen (or musketmen)-artillery succession game challenges. Having a huge stack of artillery and infantry in a fort (hill or mountain) should do the trick. But, also watch your cities. They might be invaded. I'm guessing the have rails all over the place, so an allienence against another civ to get their troops out of the way wouldn't be worth it, but might give you a 1-2 turn window. Try to get as many troops out there at once. What's their army size compared to yours? Are you weak/average/strong compared to them? (I'm guessing weak or average).

 

[Angmar]

Well I am posting from work here, so I cant show you guys the lay of the land. However it has been an ugly last 1000 years will many civilizations falling at the hands of the Germans. The main reason for this was the multiple wars that I have gotten myself into and had allies ( read fodder ) for the Germans to smash. While the Germans were smashing everything to the south, my American forces where smashing up north. I figured that this would all settle itself out in the middle of the continent. This whole oil thing has put a damper on my war plans, no tanks, no planes, no ships. EEK.

There are 3 other Civilizations left, and they are the ones on my half of the continent, all of them hate me due to the huge holes I tore in their civilizations in previous wars. I think my only chance is to take and hold that oil from the Germans. To do this I will have to rally the smashed armies of India and Japan and the decent forces of Russia to distract Germany while I make the landing.

As the game has most of the victory conditions turned off the only way Germany can in is to defeat or cripple me and vice versa. Im tempted to start building some nukes for when the tanks start coming through what was once India for me

Im not sure I can come back through Germany's huge leap ahead in the medieval era and there dominance in the modern area with the single source of oil on there land.

 

[Hades]

I haven't done this before but do give this a try, I would call this a Hannibalic style war:

1. Build tons of Galleys, Infantries (50-70), and Artilleries (80). Get some Cavalries too. Build battlefield medicine.

2. Land everything on one spot within Germany. Preferably closed to oil. This is the only shipment, so make sure you have enough galleys to do this. Don't declare war until your troops are have landed.

3. Destory everything in the path with your artilleries: Roads, RR, cities, units, etc. Do not hold any city (I don't think AI attacks any heavily fortified units outside the city, other than bombardment).

4. Cut off their critical resources first, then destory each German city one by one.

5. Once Germany is destoried, build a city to get the oil.

 

[spotonshirt]

one question. Can marines attack cities from shore? Or are they only allowed to attack units that are not in cities. Because if they are, then just use marines to wipe out the city with the oil and unload troop after troop in that city. Germany wont ever be able to take alot of artillery combined with infantry, even if they have panzers..

 

[Vedder]

I assume that if you beat them into submission, your prospective allies (India, Japan, Russia) are short on techs and luxuries. Give them some sweet deals in exchange for military alliances. Resist the temptation to keep those poor countries downtrodden. It sounds like the only way you can win is to beat Germany and that would be a lot easier to do if you have friends who can build high tech items.

 

[billindenver]

Originally posted by Hades
I haven't done this before but do give this a try, I would call this a Hannibalic style war:

1. Build tons of Galleys, Infantries (50-70), and Artilleries (80). Get some Cavalries too. Build battlefield medicine.

2. Land everything on one spot within Germany. Preferably closed to oil. This is the only shipment, so make sure you have enough galleys to do this. Don't declare war until your troops are have landed.

3. Destory everything in the path with your artilleries: Roads, RR, cities, units, etc. Do not hold any city (I don't think AI attacks any heavily fortified units outside the city, other than bombardment).

4. Cut off their critical resources first, then destory each German city one by one.

5. Once Germany is destoried, build a city to get the oil.

I'm with Hades on this, especially if Germany has only 1 source of oil. Check that first. Land close to their oil, with a few cavalry in the mix of inf/arty. Pillage every oil tile. If you can deny them their oil, you make capturing their cities much easier.

I would also get allies. If Germany is fighting several enemies at once, it makes it easier to keep a smaller invasion force from destruction.

One thing I wouldn't do that Hades mentioned is landing your troops before declaring war. That's ROP-rape, and it will piss off your potential allies. Get them close enough to German territory to land that same turn, but before moving the galleys, declare war, then land them.

One last possibility if the oil is really close to shore, is loading 4 cruise missiles onto your ships and just knocking out their oil connection that way. Or, with an ROP send them through American territory if the oil is within 2 tiles of the American border. This won't buy you much time though, unless you can do it repeatedly.

 

[billindenver]

Oh, one last thing. If Germany is in Democracy, that's great. If you land a bunch of troops 1st turn of the war, and have many allies, Germany is almost CERTAIN to have immediate war weariness, even more so if other civs get units onto their land, or if any luxury imports to Germany are cut off by the alliances. If you can get force them to change govt types, which is likely, they will have 6 turns of anarchy, where they produce NOTHING. So, no tanks to worry about after the initial mad rush.

 

[Albert Einstain]

I would like to propose following plan for you:
1. Build defence force. It should consist of HUGE number of artilery and LARGE force of infantry. Put fortresses on the borders (should be at lest one fortress every 4 tiles). Put artillery and infantry in (4 infantry and 4 artilery at least in each). Put forests and remove roads on the border. Build costal fortress in each costal city.
2. Research: try to get fussion and Space flight ass soon as possible. Build Nuclear Submarines in numbers, Tactical nukes then. Put Nuclear submarines along your coast (to sink carriers and transports). Tactical nukes much chiper and using Nuclear subs they are the same effective. If you once will nuke Germany you should have 2 nukes for each major city and 1 for smaller cities.
3. Attack force. It is enough 10 Infantries with 30 artilleries and 4 cavalries and 4 workers. Use 12 Galeons to unload all your forces. Stand ON the oil DURING PEACE. If oil is guarded stand near it. AI defends resources by 1 unit not more. Declare war. Bombard defending unit until it became red. Kill it. Use all artillery to destroy all roads around oil. Fortify your infantry. Build fortress in the same turn (it maybe not on hill, with 10 infantries it will stand anyway)
4. Before attack decribed in (3). Make an alliance with everybody against Germany. wait untill Germany goes to attack somebody with all their force. Attack then and try to sink using Nuclear Submarines all their returning transports with tanks. Eventually, Germany will run out of tanks, Battleships and so on. At this moment you will be upper hand on the sea. So you can bring reinforcement to your oil fortress. when out of oil the AI is usually builds marines and NOT artillery, so you should build artillery, not marines. Don't try to capture or destroy Germany cities, it probably will fail if they use MI for defence. Instead try to establish 1-2-3 cities in his territory (one of them on the cost) and build the road path from oild to cost (you still have there 4 workers). Hurry harbor. Next turn upgrade all Infantry to MI and begin to produce tanks in all your cities. After that - abandone all cities in Germany, anyway you can't keep them. Destroy all roads you built.
5. Bring all your tanks to Germany territory into the oil fortress. Load all tactical nukes to Nuclear submarines. Move all submarines to Germany coast. Fire all nukes from nuclear submarines on Germany cities (2 for big, 1 for small). Use tanks to finish Germany and destroy all his cities. Build enough cities near the oil once more to bring oil home. Build big army. Enjoy.

 

[Hades]

Originally posted by billindenver


One thing I wouldn't do that Hades mentioned is landing your troops before declaring war. That's ROP-rape, and it will piss off your potential allies. Get them close enough to German territory to land that same turn, but before moving the galleys, declare war, then land them.

I don't like bad reputation either, however this is the situation:

1. We don't have anything to protect our galleys so if we declare war before landing, the Germans might launch their battleships or crusiers to sink our galleys before they land. This is the same reason why you can only send out one invasion force.

2. After this war, you will be the only one to have oil, that means you don't have to negotiate with any AI any more as the world's only superpower.

 

[Angmar]

Wow thanks for the all the comments about this game. I am for sure going to ride it out and make a shot a the German oil field.

What I plan do is this. Build LOTS and LOTS of artillery ( hopefully Radar by the time the war breaks out ), Infantry and Cruise Missiles.

Along my border with the Indians Im going to build a fortress in every square, fill each fortress up with infantry and artillery. This means that for Germany to get to me they will have to come through India, and then my line, go through India and Japan and come in from the north, or try another landing. I have been able to fend off many landings by filling my coast line with infantry and using my artillery and cruise missiles. If I take over the west most Japanese city I can create the line of fortresses and defenders from ocean to ocean. This means that Germany will have to go through my line or come in by sea. I hope none of these will be a good option so hopefully they will be content in smashing my allies while I make the cheeky sea landing.

The german oil field is one square away from the coast and one square away from a major city Hamburg ( 24 ). I dont think Ill worry about the city. I will land on the coast right next to the oil with everything I have and hope. I do like the idea of a peace time invasion but the only hope that gives me is that I get the one turn of warning before Im forced to move my troops or declare war.

The invasion force will be attacking the German Superpower in GALLEYS. Ill just tell them that there is a tall ship convention at Hamburg Inside these galleries will be all the infantry, artillery and cruise missiles I can build before it looks like german is about to go to war with me again. I really feel that this adventure will only work during peace time. If I encounter any resistance on the oceans Im toast.

Im going to try to do this without nuclear weapons, but I am thinking that if "started" the war with a nuclear strike on the oil it will ensure that Germany will not be able to build any more units that require oil unless they take the oil back. I was also thinking of using nukes to clear the map of road and rail for many many squares around the oil this means that when the Modern Armour comes after the oil I might be able to pound some of them with Artillery as they come across the orange goo at me

Sadly enough I am still stuck here at work tonight, and probably will be for another couple days... so this game might not be able to play out till the weekend. Arrr .. Civ is a bad addiction

Cheers,

 

[Albert Einstain]

Angmar,
I believe you should avoid of using cruise missles in Germany oil field. It is not very practical way of war, since once used they are lost! And Germany will come with MANY of tanks etc. Better way is to take 4-6 cavalries. They can retreat after attack so you can use them many times And they will probably beat red lined MI with 2/3 probability (even fortified, when Cavalry is full health and Elite). Red lined fortified German Panzer this cavalry will beat with 9/10 probability. AI first using tanks to attack, it means that you can kill about 60 Panzers before your 6 Cavalry killed, if you have enough artillery.
And during war you can beat Germany on the sea. When war started, AI send all Battleships to your shores for bombing missions. Just redline them with artillery and finish with Nuclear submarine (it is about 4/5 probability of success)
Maybe it is not very good idea to build fortress in EVERY border tile. Because you need HUGE army to populate all of them with significant force. Just put them enough to be ready to bombard every square near the border. If you lose some fortesses it can be VERY painfull. BTW it is not your aim to avoid ground attack. Let him attack using passes between fortresses, bombard all his units with artillery and finish them with cavalry. If you can't kill all of them - it is OK. Anyway, wounded units will retreat to heal, you will kill them during his next attack.

 

[Hades]

I agree with AE, just infantry and artillery (maybe some cavalry) will be enough. Also, do it quickly!! Your infantry won't be able to fend off the MA's nor will they be able to kill MI's. Capture the oil ASAP and station about 5 infantry units (or an army of infantries) on the oil to make sure no one get a road to tap the oil back. To speed up the process, use mobilization, you'll need it.

 

[The Last Conformist]

Are we really talking Galleys here? Why can't you build Galleon?

Unless there's Mountains 'tween Hamburg and the Oil, German MA will be able to attack straight at any forces fortified at the Oil tile without you being able to bombard 'em, so I rather think you'll have to worry about the city.

Is Hamburg at the coast? If so, and if you're ready to lettle the nuclear genie out of the bottle, I'd suggest simply dropping 2-3 tac nukes on it and then throwing whatever amount of Marines necessary to take it at it. If the lay of the land is favourable, that'll leave the Oil outside German territory. If not, it should not be impossible to use the city as a base for keeping the Oil tile permantently without road access.

Oh, and a question; is Oil from a polluted square useable? If not, that suggests another use for tac nukes ...

 

[Angmar]

What has happened in the crazy world of the single oil source. I started to build Galleons ( not galleys sorry lots of them, infantry and artillery. However there was a drastic change in the world in the 20 years that I started to build the invasion force. I was able to convince Germany into not going to war with me. This cost me some luxuries and a round of the draft on all my big cities. This however directed Germany's attention to the Russians my northern neighbours. In 4 short years the Russian empire was crushed and balance of Germanies Modern Armour sat within striking distance of Kyoto and Magellan's Voyage which was added to the my empire with the last war with Japan. Another round of the draft and I feel like I was able to match one infantry for each Modern Armour that was idling around Minsk.

I did a comparison of Army size when the build up started. I was weak compared to Germany and everyone else was weak compared to me. I had more infantry and artillery that everyone else combined. Right then and there I knew it would be me VS Germany at the end.

I knew this would totally change the retributive strike from results of Operation Tall Ships. I replayed the first 5 years of war about a half of dozen times. Each figuring things out a little more and making less mistakes each time.

The first I learned was there was a huge amount of Modern Armour sitting in Minsk. I was barely able to fill Kyoto with enough conscripts to withstand the first couple years of war. All of my elite and vet infantry were on a boat sailing towards the German empire.

I then reloaded the game a few times experimenting with the tactical nukes I had to strike Minsk and the MA in the fields around it. This is where I first encountered the Intergrated Defence. I decided that the first strike was going to be a nuclear one against the army in the field near Minsk and Minsk itself. Not a single weapon struck its target. I had 5 nukes by the time Operation Tall Ships turned into Operation Festival and the troops landed on the hills near the oil field. I was able to take an hold this hill and destroy the road and rail to the oil field. This accomplished very little without the Nukes doing damage to the Modern Armour of Germany.

The city that I landed next to and had the oil in its area of influence was at 24 population and guarded by Mechanized Infantry. With all my Artillery I was able to do little damage to the city each turn. For me to bash that city down it will be atleast a 20 turn siege.

During the first 5 turns the front lines between myself and what was once Russia would barely hold. I would be able to knock out one tank for about 4 or 5 infantry defending Kyoto and the wall of fortresses, artillery and infantry inbetween Kyoto and America Proper. The first turns have me loosing the land battle in what was once Japan and Russia.

Along with my Galleons I made a huge fleet of nuclear submarines. These were able to strike havoc against the Germany navy as it approached America and in the bay that the oil field was next to. The sea battle went my way I was able to keep the Germany navy in port. I was able to deprive Germany of oil but it looks like it will be the long and hard struggle to gain the city that controls the oil.

I have many save games and tons of screen shots of this game that Ill hopefully get a chance to post. I havent given up on this game just yet.

My save game now. 5 Turns into the war. Kyoto has held and I have destroyed atleast 8 units of MA and driven the two MA Armies of Germany off to repair. I have a huge force within two squares of the oil field on a hill in a fortress next to Hastings ( not Hamburg .. that whole Hamburg thing was part of the disinformation campaign just in case the Germans are reading this forum

The game plan now. HOLD THE LINE NEAR KYOTO. Continue to pump out Infantry and cruise missiles as fast as my nation can. All my truely productive cities with barracks produce infantry all the rest cruise missiles. I use the cruise missiles to strike damaged Modern Armour in the field. One cruise missile is a GREAT exchange for removing one of Germany's MA knowing that he doesnt have oil to replace it. I have to take Hastings. This means I will have to smash this city into dust. I must use my Artillery and Cavalry to cut all roads to the city and then every and every turn bring the 20+ Artillery I have down on the city. Once the barracks is destroyed it will make damaging the Mechanical Infantry effective. I think that I have 5 or 6 cruise missiles siting in the Germany fortress. Hopefully this means that If Im able to bash enough MI down to low hitpoints that I wont actually need to every send Infantry against defending MI, the cruise missiles might be able to do all the work. I hope in one turn I bash all the defenders to one or two hit points and then kill each one with a missile strike, then simply walk in. I hope

Cheers,