Lack of strategic resources, is this normal?

[connor]

I am playing my first full real CIV3 game and am hampered by a serious lack of strategic resources. I expanded my borders quickly, but have found few strategic resources. I have a large land area, but found no oil when I discovered refining and was able to conquer the Roman city on my border that had some. There is only one source of rubber, but about all other civs have several sources.

Biggest problem is that I have absolutely no railroads. I had two coal sources and one disappearedin one turn and the second disappeared in three turns. I have about five rr tiles. Is that normal? I have discovered no more coal, but put roads all over my empire and found nothing. The closest foreign source is very far away and no AI trading of any strategic resources.

Any ideas? Putting a serious hamper on my expansion and production. Thanks.
_________________________

What is best in life?
To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women.

 

[Psychlone]

Sometimes those are the breaks. I once had 3 deposits of iron disappear in as many turns, the last two on the same turn! Twice recently I have managed to begin construction of the Iron Works, but in both cases, one of the necessary resources had disappeared by the time it was completed, lol. Fortunately it still allows you to finish it once started.

The disappearance rate of coal and iron is far too high. Iron has 8 times the disappearance value of uranium. I went into the editor and turned down the disappearance values on iron and coal.

The key to scoring coal and rubber is to make sure you get your hands on a sizable amount of jungle.

 

[eyrei]

I rarely have iron disappear, but the frequency at which coal disappears in my games is amazing. I have only once, in probably 40 games, had the oppurtunity to build the iron works. It was in a city so far from my capital I would have needed to build the forbidden palace in it get any benefit, and would have needed a leader to do that.

Somebody should have a source of coal they can trade. I believe the game is set up so that there is at least one occurence of each resource per civ.

 

[connor]

Thanks for the info. Can I make changes such as how long a resource lasts in the editor on a saved game or do those changes need to be made previously? Still working on the game mechanics.

I do love the resource idea though, makes game play much more interesting, but I still find it bothersome that knights can take out infantry sometimes, WTH!!!

Thanks.

 

[rangers85]

Originally posted by Psychlone
Sometimes those are the breaks. I once had 3 deposits of iron disappear in as many turns, the last two on the same turn! Twice recently I have managed to begin construction of the Iron Works, but in both cases, one of the necessary resources had disappeared by the time it was completed, lol. Fortunately it still allows you to finish it once started.

The disappearance rate of coal and iron is far too high. Iron has 8 times the disappearance value of uranium. I went into the editor and turned down the disappearance values on iron and coal.

The key to scoring coal and rubber is to make sure you get your hands on a sizable amount of jungle.

You decreased the disappearance number? That makes it more likely to disappear. An 800 would be a 1 in 800 chance to disappear. A 120 would be 1 in 120 of disappearing.

 

[PaulNAdhe]

I've tried creating more instances during a game, it didn't work.

I've also changed the disappearance rate during a game. I don't know if that worked or not.

It's usually best to change the world wide things before starting a game. Unit and city changes will take effect when you reload the saved game.

 

[zebomba]

It must be something about luck. I don't edit anything, and got a map in which I monopolize saltpeter and gems, and have lots of coal, oil and spices. Sure I control almost all my continent.
Of course, sometimes I end up with almost nothing. War breaks loose.

 

[Psychlone]

Rangers85, you say I increased the disappearance odds? Hmm, I hope I wasn't reading them incorrectly. But with horses being 0 disappearance chance, iron being 800, oil 120, coal 400, I assumed the higher the number, the higher the chance of disappearance.

Another example of how bad iron can be, in a game I just saved prior to posting this, a computer pillaged a road and a mine on an iron deposit. Shortly thereafter the iron disappeared. A few turns later, I "discovered a new source of iron" on that same square. By the time I had completed a road back into the square, it had disappeared again.

 

[Ironstone]

As others have mentioned, these things can be changed with the Editor. There is also an explanation in the editor of how it works. There's a help button (bottom right corner?) when you have a particular tab open you can get a dummy version of that page pop up and then click on the area you want help with to get an explanation. They are short and don't always tell you everything, but they are useful.

The thing to watch though, is that you can't always expect an instant change. Some things look to be instant (I experimented with movement and got an imediate change) but others may need a complete new game to be restarted. I'm not sure about coal, etc. but it could well be one that is set at the start, or at least require a number of turns to show an effect.

Uranium and Aluminium can be a problem too. If you can't find any, and the other civs won't trade, or don't have a surplus, you can have all the techs but still not be able to build a spaceship.

 

[Ironstone]

I'm not sure if these pix will display well enough to read, and the explanations are not completely crystal clear, but here's what the editor says:

 

[Ironstone]

And:

 

[Troyens]

You BET it is normal to not have nearly enough resources, especially iron and coal.

This has been an ongoing complaint about the game in many threads since it came out.

This shows me Firaxis rushed the game out for Christmas without enough playtesting. There are many examples of this sort of thing.

At least the lack of resources can be changed by the Editor. They SHOULD be rare, but not SO rare you can't find them despite your best efforts and have to go to war over and over for them.


Remember, Disappearance Rates are a ratio of one to whatever number is displayed by the Editor. If that number is 800, we have a 1:800 ratio; i.e., one chance in 800 of a resource vanishing.

 

[zebomba]

People should know they can't expect to have all resources, bc if they had, why have a resources concept?
Of course, if the whole world has 2 coal, then it's a bug.

 

[jssst21]

Though many complain about the lack of resources I think it is a stroke of brilliance by Firaxis. Can you tell me any other reason civilizations have historically gone to war? It is (nearly) always about control of resources and the economic benefits they bring. Wrap it up in patriotism, religion, whatever you like, 9 out of 10 times it is about money.
The master stroke if you will is that they made war so incredibly detrimental to your society (war weariness in a democracy). This forces you to decide just how much that coal is worth to you and then choose war or not. It is always possible to get resources without war by either out teching them and trading a particularly juicy tech for resource or just flat out buying it. Add the war option to this and I think it is an excellent model of actual relations between nations historically. Necessarily simplified, but maintaining the essence of global politics. From the Romans and Egyptians all the way up to the present day, resources and the lack thereof led to war.

 

[cutiestar]

Exactly, if the resources were easy to get for everyone, then why even have the resources in the game, might aswell just make it automatic, you discover the tech and you can build the units.

I think you guys who don't like the lack of resources really have to think about the concept of this being a strategy game, it isn't simcity here.

I myself have never had a problem with resources, if i happen to be missing something i need, i either go and get it, or just plan a way to win without it. Go figure

 

[Mr Spice]

Go Cutiestar! I couldn´t have said it better myself!

 

[Squirrel Ninja]

I think the resource concept is great, leads to much more strategy and thoughtful play. I have one question however, now I don't mind resources disappearing but do resources ever respawn during a game?

I'm still playing my first game and I have never witnessed a resource appearing in the game but I have lost two sources of iron now and I'm down to my last one, just hope it lasts the 100 years before the game ends otherwise I'm going to have to go fight a war to get some. I know the other civs aint going to trade me any after I cut all contact with them for trying to do me up like a kipper in trade negotiations(if I had to give silk, incense, horses AND 5 gold a turn for spice god knows what the tight-fisted mercenaries will want for iron, never trust a Greek )

 

[Kefka]

One thing I have found out is that it pays not to destroy jungle and forest because the AI always destroys their jungle forest and guess what when rubber dissapers where do you think it reappears?
thats right in my ONLY jungle or forest that I control!

 

[Cerryl]

I like the challenge of having to get them through trade or war, they are after all, called STRATEGIC resources. Using the editor and the like, would just take out the challenge, and therefore, the FUN for me.

 

[PaulNAdhe]

Originally posted by Squirrel Ninja
I think the resource concept is great, leads to much more strategy and thoughtful play. I have one question however, now I don't mind resources disappearing but do resources ever respawn during a game?...SNIP

Disappeared resources always reappear somewhere on the map. Probably not within the same civ or even the same continent.