Ladder or clans?

[Mutineer]

yes, this are popular settings, lets analise them.
You forgot rundom leaders.

Game end after 120 turn. Just about time people get civil service.
So, some one who drow up for example spiritual and expancionists or orgonised leaders or leaders with late game UU are in disadvantage from the start. They have no chance to utilise strength of there trats and abilities.

Allway war, additional minus agains expansionists leaders, as they have no chance to utilise there cheap harbors for more commerce.
L2 city illumination, discuradge wars, and there very little chance you profit from them. I cuptured a capital near the end and it still autoraised.

Win by score, for god sake I am not interested in studiying how score is calculated. What the hell is fun in that? It is no way part of the game.

 

[azzaman333]

I have researched to Gunpowder in a ladder game, so you cant go saying that they finish when you get Civil Service.

 

[Mutineer]

Yes, gunpowder is posible, but main point was that you can not research enogth civics to make use of Spiritual trat or you just getting them when game finishing.
Please, when respond, respond to the point.

 

[azzaman333]

Yes, gunpowder is posible, but main point was that you can not research enogth civics to make use of Spiritual trat or you just getting them when game finishing.
Please, when respond, respond to the point.

Spiritual is very strong, because you dont get that 1 turn of anarchy. In a 120 turn game, you might make 7 or so government changes. So your spending (roughly) 6-7% of the game in anarchy. In a short game, every turn matters, and sometimes the 1 turn from changing civics can be the difference between life and death.

 

[CanuckSoldier]

Mutineer, what constitutes a "Civ game" is highly subjective. The popular MP formats are there because it allows 2-10 people to finish a random lobby game in 2-4 hours. This is not a SP game were you can save and come back to it later. And some how games have to come to some sort of finish in that time span, so yes 2 city elim is popular and well as the turn limits. And if everyone survives then the score is used, and knowing what contributes to points is no different than most of the SP competitions were score is also used.

We do have a epic format game on the ladder but they require alot more setup(in the forums) and more dedicated players as they typically last weeks to complete an entire game. And therefore scheduling becomes a issue.

If you don't like ancient start games then it's not hard to find a classical, med, ren or ind start games either. Or mods like OCC are gaining popularity as well.

It comes down to the fact that the ladder is designed to have people finish games and have fun doing it. Quiters are highly discouraged by the rules and that is what you will find in random open games in the lobby. You might very well find players here on CFC that will agree to longer casual games and be dedicated enough to continue them, and you can have fun playing those too, but that is not what you will find jumping into random open games in the lobby.

Not to mention that Civ4players run's many tournaments and other events and has a very knowledgable forums on MP issues, and ladder players tend to have fewer connection issues because of this collective knowledge.

CS

 

[Mutineer]

You still did not answer on main points of my post, inheritant unfair rules as leaders, civilisations and traits are balanced for a whole game, not for short part of it.
I actially like ancient starts, btw. Changing it to more advance start does not mutigate the problem as other leaders loosing there advantages.

 

[azzaman333]

So everyone should just play without traits then? With identical starts? That'd be pretty boring.

 

[Mutineer]

Please, again, are you consider me stuped? Where do you see me suggesting to play with out trats and with = starting position?

Again, you avoide question and insted of unswering trying to discredit posterer. Please, show where I am advising to start with out trats? or with indentical starting positions?

 

[azzaman333]

You are complaining that the traits/UUs arent balanced for this kind of MP. Unless you suggest otherwise, I'd assume you just want to remove them. And then even it out more by getting identical start locs.

Good players can win from a poor start location, with poor traits, and a UU that wont get used. Bad players can lose from a great start location, great traits and a great UU.

Maybe if you explained what your point is, I would be able to respond accordingly. all I have gathered from you posts is that you dont like Civ 4 MP because it isnt as balanced. My solution to that was to remove traits, UUs, and make start locations equal, but you didnt like that.

 

[Mutineer]

Balance never mean =, it mean balanced. Never mix this 2 thinks.
I believe my point was very clear, but I repeate.

Leaders and civs were balanced for course of all game. Currently used rules destroy this ballance.

 

[azzaman333]

Leaders and civs were balanced for course of all game. Currently used rules destroy this ballance.

Unfortunately, this is wrong. There are civs which are much stronger over thw whole game than others. And the civs with early game advantages normally end up being the strongest in the later game anyway.

 

[Ellestar]

yes, this are popular settings, lets analise them.
You forgot rundom leaders.

Game end after 120 turn. Just about time people get civil service.
So, some one who drow up for example spiritual and expancionists or orgonised leaders or leaders with late game UU are in disadvantage from the start. They have no chance to utilise strength of there trats and abilities.

Yes, this aspect of ctons is random. However, there is a semi-cton format where you can choose leaders instead of random. Also, you can choose leaders in almost all Renaissance and later era start teamers (Ancient to Medieval starts are generally played with random leaders).

L2 city illumination, discuradge wars, and there very little chance you profit from them. I cuptured a capital near the end and it still autoraised.

If you don't allow enemy to settle on his land (either by killing him or by choking him and not allowing him to settle), you'll have more land to settle himself. More land means more production, more research, more score. If you kill an opponent, he loses the cton no matter what was his score. It's far from "very little profit". You just should understand what are you doing, why are you doing that and what can you gain from it. It's just like any other strategic decision. So i'm surprised to see any complaints about it.

Win by score, for god sake I am not interested in studiying how score is calculated. What the hell is fun in that? It is no way part of the game.

Actually, score is one of the singleplayer victory conditions. Most singleplayer tournaments are played for score and time. Also, you can see your current score breakdown if you'll put a mouse cursor above your name in the leaders panel in the lower-left corner of a screen (players will be sorted by score in that panel so you can always see who's currently winning).

 

[Mutineer]

Today I had a horrible cton expirience.
If this is typical of ladder play I will withdrow myself from the ladder.

I join cton game and most of the game I was figting score leader on one side and an other player on other side.
If I press enter, Bouth of this players with use double turns. If I do not press enter, everyone starting with leading player abuse me to press enter.

For all practical purpouses they were talling each other that they attaking me, which I believe is pronhibited by cton rules.

If that considered to be a fair sportmanship sorry, I am not interested.

Turn timer fast enogth that I barrelly have time to move all my units.
I see no reason to press some one to finish turn on blassing timer.

 

[Elledge]

Sorry, but you pretty much come off as a whiny git. I doubt the ladder will miss you much when you give up on it.

At least I'm glad you're sticking to ancient CTONs instead of playing different eras and teamers, so I won't have to deal with you.

 

[knupp715]

Your argument about unfair traits isn't valid Mutineer. I won an ancient cton yesterday by 600 points and I got stuck with Roosevelt, an all around crappy civ (imo) and late UU. You also say that there isn't enough civic changes????? I change my civics at least three times, usually more and that is when I'm NOT spiritual.

I join cton game and most of the game I was figting score leader on one side and an other player on other side.
If I press enter, Bouth of this players with use double turns. If I do not press enter, everyone starting with leading player abuse me to press enter.

For all practical purpouses they were talling each other that they attaking me, which I believe is pronhibited by cton rules.

If that considered to be a fair sportmanship sorry, I am not interested.

Turn timer fast enogth that I barrelly have time to move all my units.
I see no reason to press some one to finish turn on blassing timer.

I've never seen or heard of a case in a CTON where two people were talking to eachother and planning attacks. In a cton you always have two other civs, 1 on each front (on inland sea which most ctons are played on) unless you kill one of them. If you can't handle the heat from both sides that means you were out played, simple and easy as that.

 

[Mutineer]

You seems missing point. Player were screaming for me to press end of turn.
That should never had happened, but may it is to expect to mach from civilise behaviour. You are wellcome to protect you lader, but if that is useal level of player conduct then yes, I am not interested.

 

[azzaman333]

You seems missing point. Player were screaming for me to press end of turn.
That should never had happened, but may it is to expect to mach from civilise behaviour. You are wellcome to protect you lader, but if that is useal level of player conduct then yes, I am not interested.

You should be trying to finish your turns in a timely manner, but they shouldnt be yelling at you to finish your turn.

Normally the ladder players are friendly, its when they take the game too seriously things get messy. I hope you have better luck with your next ladder game.

 

[TrailblazingScot]

Today I had a horrible cton expirience.
If this is typical of ladder play I will withdrow myself from the ladder.

I join cton game and most of the game I was figting score leader on one side and an other player on other side.
If I press enter, Bouth of this players with use double turns. If I do not press enter, everyone starting with leading player abuse me to press enter.

For all practical purpouses they were talling each other that they attaking me, which I believe is pronhibited by cton rules.

If that considered to be a fair sportmanship sorry, I am not interested.

Turn timer fast enogth that I barrelly have time to move all my units.
I see no reason to press some one to finish turn on blassing timer.

Dude, you can tell by the start next to each players name which ones have ended their turn.

Therefore, if you're really that scared of the move end turn then move at start of next thing end only once everyone else has ended turn.

That way you get what you want, less worry and they don't end up waiting for you to let the timer tick down.


As for turn timer...I don't particularly like blazing to be honest, yet I can play at that speed. Ensure you have no pop-ups, no animations, stack attack, even on occasion automating promotions and using the right-click city menus to select production in cities and you should be fine. Or just work like a blue arsed fly which is how I do things as I'm a micromanager at heart.