Law Balance: 3/7/2025

Stalker0

Baller Magnus
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I wrote my own thoughts on law balance several years ago: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/laws-balance.677097/

so now coming back from hiatus and going through a lot of games, I wanted to see how the balance of laws felt with the multitude of changes that has happened in that time. Lets dig in!

I will note that my experience is principally in SP no MP, so keep that in mind.

Like before I will use a simple rating system:


A - There is good balance between the laws, they both have use.
C - The balance is ok, I tend to favor one over the other, but I do use both on occasion.
F - One law is dramatically better than the other, or both laws are so weak I often won't pick either one.

Epics / Exploration (C) - While I do think Exploration has its uses, it tends to be more subtle (wrapped more in events), whereas Epics is just straight up good. There are maps where I use exploration, but I do think Epics is more generally the better choice.

Slavery / Freedom (A) - Slavery is a great pick initially to ramp up your economy, but tends to give way to freedom. So this is one of those pairs I will often switch as the game goes on, very nice.

Centralization / Vassalage (C) - Similar to slavery/freedom, centralization is a very solid pick when you can get it early for that science. But as your armies start to grow the resource benefit of vassalage become very useful. But on the flip side, my economy also tends to grow enough where its questionable if giving up the science is worth it. I do think the balance is reasonable with a tilt towards centralization.

Tyranny / Constitution (A) - I really like both of these, just depends on the style of play I am going for.

Colonies / Serfdom (A) - The balance here to me is about when to use colonies. Serfdom is just straight up good, no question. But colonies can be amazingly useful if you time it well and use it in a short span to just grow your borders exceptionally fast. I find a shift to colonies for a handful of turns and then a shift back to serfdom can deliver excellent benefits, so good balance here.

Monotheism / Polytheism (A) - Similar to colonies/serdom, mono is generally the better play as orders are always good, but if you can shift into poly and bust out a bunch of shrines in short order, you can get a very good return and then return to the mono's benefits.

Divine Rule / Legal Code (C) - In a "normal" kind of game, its hard to say no to the insane amount of civics you can get from legal code. But....there are games where every order matters, and sometimes having your pagan religion as your state religion gives a lot of benefits. So there are definite games or even during some wars where a switch to DR can be very worthwhile, but I think LC is the better choice most of the time.

Tolerance / Orthodoxy (A) - Both are solid I think.

Professional Army / Volunteers (C) - PA is generally superior here, the treasury bonus is solid, and the upkeep is actually a lot less than volunteers. The pop consumption is pretty harsh on volunteers, it has its uses, but generally PA gives me the better bonuses.

Philosophy / Engineering (A) - I love both of these, often going with Engineering first and then shifting to philosophy as the wonders run out.

Iconography / Calligraphy (F) - Icon requires a LOT of cathedrals to really be worth it, otherwise its a pretty mediocre bonus for that high upkeep. Calligraphy can have use with high specialist play, but there are many games I forget this pair exists.

Pilgrimage / Holy War (C) - Pilgrimide.....I mean money just usually isn't that big a deal, and the spread chance while nice its really only for foreign cities, as I almost always have the spreads I need in my cities by then.. Holy War in general though is the superior pick, the ability to money rush out units can be a major strength in the late game.

Elites / Guilds (F) - Elities blows guilds out of the water, the ability save your orders is incredibly powerful. The fact your probably throwing on another 8-10 orders is just icing on the cake. Guilds just doesn't compete imo, at this point in the game I generally have curbed my discontent with other means.

Autarky / Trade League (A) - Really cool late game laws, I love them both.

Coin Debasement / Monetary Reform (F) - Probably the only law pair I actually rated lower now. Monetrary Reform is garbage at the time you often get it. The happiness is weak, the no unhappiness from hurrying is just not a big deal for the turns I have left. and the MR upkeep is a lot harsher than CDs.
 
Thanks for your thoughts. As a new player puzzling through the options, I'm glad to see your thinking confirmed most of my guesses. In particular, for Iconography/Calligraphy, I struggled to guess why I'd want to pay the cost for either of them, and Coin Debasement seems so good. Way too good for anything with "debasement" in the name. :lol:
 
Thanks for your thoughts. As a new player puzzling through the options, I'm glad to see your thinking confirmed most of my guesses. In particular, for Iconography/Calligraphy, I struggled to guess why I'd want to pay the cost for either of them, and Coin Debasement seems so good. Way too good for anything with "debasement" in the name. :lol:
Worth mentioning that Iconography is being severely undervalued here. Not sure why Cathedrals are even being mentioned at all in relation to iconography to be quite honest. The increases on training on monasteries alone is worth the price of admission and they boost gold income off of temples too so it more than pays for itself. The outputs of iconography get doubled in cleric cities, making it's potential pretty massive.

This assessment misses the mark on Exploration and Iconography for sure.
 
Worth mentioning that Iconography is being severely undervalued here. Not sure why Cathedrals are even being mentioned at all in relation to iconography to be quite honest. The increases on training on monasteries alone is worth the price of admission and they boost gold income off of temples too so it more than pays for itself. The outputs of iconography get doubled in cleric cities, making it's potential pretty massive.

This assessment misses the mark on Exploration and Iconography for sure.
how does it miss the mark on exploration? I agree with OP on that one and am curious if you use Exploration for other reasons. I only use it before I tend to do a lot of explore events (and even then it's a crapshoot), or if i desperately need to have my scout go across water.

I feel like all scouts should be invisible, and/or all units should have increased LOS, or boats get built 20% faster, or something like that with Exploration.
 
how does it miss the mark on exploration? I agree with OP on that one and am curious if you use Exploration for other reasons. I only use it before I tend to do a lot of explore events (and even then it's a crapshoot), or if i desperately need to have my scout go across water.

I feel like all scouts should be invisible, and/or all units should have increased LOS, or boats get built 20% faster, or something like that with Exploration.
Maybe a 20% boost to Harvest yields? Or eliminate the distance penalty on Harvest yields?

I'm not experienced enough, yet, with Old World to confidently offer balance suggestions, but I can say I find the "all or nothing" approach to Scouts travelling over water a little jarring. I don't feel like they should be prohibited without Exploration and I'm not terribly fond of Exploration's primary benefit being activating over-water travel by Scouts.
 
Explorations primary benefit is increased movement along rivers. Thats what's being missed in the assessment. Exploration translates to orders in the early game as you are traveling around the map.

Typically many maps and starting locations have various river networks that you find yourself on. The exploration law allows you to move along rivers as if they were roads. What that means is as you are moving military, settlers, workers, or whatever else around your starting region, you're able to speed up this movement which subsequently reduces the overall cost of orders.

Especially if you find yourself in hilly or wooded terrain.
 
Explorations primary benefit is increased movement along rivers. Thats what's being missed in the assessment. Exploration translates to orders in the early game as you are traveling around the map.

Typically many maps and starting locations have various river networks that you find yourself on. The exploration law allows you to move along rivers as if they were roads. What that means is as you are moving military, settlers, workers, or whatever else around your starting region, you're able to speed up this movement which subsequently reduces the overall cost of orders.

Especially if you find yourself in hilly or wooded terrain.
Ok, that makes sense from a balance versus Epics perspective. Thanks. As an effect, that's a bit non-intuitive to a newbie (at least this newbie) for a law named "Exploration".
 
Sure that's fair, I didn't really understand the hubbub about exploration when I started playing either. Generally though I think it's the superior law of the two. Epics has uses, but feels much more niche since mobility is always worth it.
 
Does anyone use Volunteers? if so, when? I find i never use it..
I haven't used it, because so far I've been playing pretty peaceful and getting out of wars whenever I can.

But I have thought about it, and I think Volunteers would work great if you're playing to maximize Legitimacy and are comfortable with having a bunch of "quiet wars" percolating in the background. You can be at war with multiple nations and tribes that are far enough away from you that they aren't absorbing many Orders to deal with. Events regularly give you the opportunity to get into wars like this and give you a boost to your Legitimacy when you do. I believe with Volunteers, you get an additional benefit in the form of extra Training per city while the war lasts. As I said, I haven't tried this, yet, but I suspect I will in my next game or so.
 
Another benefit (almost the main benefit) from exploration is that it unlocks the science related option, which is great, in some of the explore events.
The kids-explore playstyle, with other events and tricks, help you with developing high wisdom main character. Therefore, we even don't think 10 wisdom is high. 15 wisdom is just OK, not surprising.
[I won't expand this topic here, cuz I think the attribute creeps now (with all DLC), I'd biring this topic up in discord later]

Constitution, I pick it most of the time. But I do know Tyranny gives you good money. Very good if I get it for free. Its 20% training may matter in some late game case, I will consider it if necessary by then.

Colonies / Serfdom. Even in semi water map like Bay, I don't want to research Navigation unless I have to.
Serfdom's 5 order is not that important since Divine Rule gives orders now. I always want Colonies and did use it sometimes, but I pick this pair carefully.
This pair may trigger age of XX event with traditional (main character), so i'll make use of them if I meet the conditions. (Accordingly, other laws may trigger age of XX too)

Professional Army. The 2 training does matter due to the % boost from barr/range. But if the situation is OK and I'm lack of civil, I 'd save the 400.
Volunteers. Very useful for your undeveloped cities to hurry produce some units. Or do so in the cities you just conquered. (Yep, AI took my city and hurry produced units with citizens in civ 3, lol)

Calligraphy. The happiness from elder sp. is not important. The newest version (10 culture) is neat. very helpful to farm or semi-farm victory. Actually, it's good in all games, speeding up the VP is neat ofc.
Iconography. You just don't have time for it. Even in mid advantage it's pretty situational, let alone in high difficulties. You need time to set it up, and pace, map layout matters too. Don't get me wrong, I like it, rarely have a chance to use it tho.

Holy war is good, but stirrup is not good, 600 sci is not worth. (I won't expand this topic too cuz I talked about it in discord.)

Autarky is no match for Trade League. Not at all. Maybe it's OK in some extrme situations, I agree, cuz "situational" is the great feature and fun of this game, but in most of the time with normal mapscript, I have to say no.

Cheers
 
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