Leaders and Preferred Religion

[Sufyan]

In the Civilopedia, all leaders have a preferred religion listed. It appears save to assume that this is the religion a AI leader founds if he is able to.

It is very unfortunate that only one religion is listed - a "second choice" in case the preferred one is already taken would do much to prevent too many German Buddhisms or Kongolese Shintoisms.

It is also odd that Christianity is divided into three flavors (Catholicism, Protestantism and Eastern Orthodoxy) while Buddhism, Islam and even Hinduism appear as one religion only - even though the differences between different sects of Buddhism and Hinduism are much bigger than those of Christianity or Islam. Oh well.

The provided real religions are Buddhism, Catholicism, Confucianism, Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Protestantism, Shintoism, Sikhism, Daoism and Zoroastrianism. The other symbols can be used for fantasy religions, but I strongly doubt AI leaders will use them.


As a completely useless exercise, this thread is trying to guess the preferred religion of all leaders. As far as I know, only Barbarossa's is known.



1. Catherine de' Medici - Catholicism
2. Cleopatra - Egyptian or Greek Polytheism, which doesn't exist, so she'll most likely default to Islam (dominant religion of modern Egypt)
3. Frederick Barbarossa - Catholicism
4. Gandhi - Hinduism
5. Gilgamesh - Sumerian Polytheism, which doesn't exist, so he'll most likely default to Islam (dominant religion of modern Iraq)
6. Gorgo - Greek Polytheism, which doesn't exist, so she'll most likely default to Eastern Orthodoxy (dominant religion of modern Greece)
7. Harald Hardrada - Catholicism (today Norway is mostly Protestant, but Harald was quite Catholic)
8. Hojo Tokimune - Buddhism (it's odd not to have a Japanese preference for Shintoism, but Hojo was very Buddhist)
9. Montezuma - Aztec Polytheism, which doesn't exist, so he might default to Catholicism (dominant religion of modern Mexico); this would be really weird though, considering how much Aztec blood cults and the Catholic Church opposed each other
10. Mvemba a Nzinga - Catholicism, if he can found a religion at all
11. Pedro II - Catholicism
12. Pericles - Greek Polytheism, which doesn't exist, so he'll most likely default to Eastern Orthodoxy (dominant religion of modern Greece)
13. Peter - Eastern Orthodoxy
14. Philip II - Catholicism
15. Qin Shi Huang - Daoism (Confucianism is emblematic of China, but Qin Shi Huang persecuted Confucians)
16. Saladin - Islam
17. Teddy Roosevelt - Protestantism
18. Tomyris - Scythian Polytheism, which doesn't exist, so she might default to Eastern Orthodoxy, Zoroastrianism or Islam (all make equally much or little sense)
19. Trajan - Roman Imperial Cult, which doesn't exist, so he'll most likely default to Catholicism (dominant religion of the later Empire and modern Italy)
20. Victoria - Protestantism


Number of leaders per religion:

Catholicism 7
Islam 3
Eastern Orthodocy 3 (two of them Greek)
Protestantism 2
Daoism 1
Buddhism 1
Hinduism 1
Shintoism 0
Sikhism 0
Zoroastrianism 0
Judaism 0
Confucianism 0

(I did not count Tomyris and Montezuma, as both are hard to guess.)

When Jadwiga and Isabella show up, they'll both be super Catholic too.

 

[Stringer1313]

It would be fun/nice if they added options for Tomyris and Montezuma and the Greeks/Romans. Would "Polytheism" be overbroad? I get that this is kind of at the pantheon-level, but still

 

[Lord Lakely]

I kind of wish the prefered religion for the few wildcard civs (Aztecs, Romans, etc) was either randomized (like in Civ 5) or fixed to one of the more left-field options. When was the last time you had a Civ5 game where the AI founded Sikhism? (I can personally recall precisely two occasions. France and Polynesia founded them, in both cases the last civs able to do so)

 

[Zaarin]

Tomyris - Scythian Polytheism, which doesn't exist, so she might default to Eastern Orthodoxy, Zoroastrianism or Islam (all make equally much or little sense)

Why on Earth would Islam make sense for the Scythians? Zoroastrianism makes sense because the Scythians practiced a pre-Zoroastrian Iranian religion, which makes it a relative of Zoroastrianism; Orthodoxy makes sense because Ossetians are overwhelmingly Eastern Orthodox. I don't see how Islam would make sense at all.

I kind of wish the prefered religion for the few wildcard civs (Aztecs, Romans, etc) was either randomized (like in Civ 5)

What are you talking about? Both the Aztecs and Romans preferred Catholicism in Civ5.

 

[SofNascimento_]

Trajan is actually in heaven so christianity would be a sound choice.

 

[Thormodr]

Trajan is actually in heaven so christianity would be a sound choice.

Not to pick a fight here or anything but do we know that Trajan is in heaven? At least heaven as portrayed in the Bible since you mentioned Christianity.

 

[Browd]

Well, Trajan did not practice persecution of Christians on the scale of Domitian, Diocletion and Galerius (among others), but he reportedly had executed more than a few Christian leaders, including Ignatius (Bishop of Antioch) and Simeon (Bishop of Jerusalem), so I'm guessing St. Peter didn't look very kindly on Trajan when he knocked on the Pearly Gates.

 

[Thormodr]

Well, Trajan did not practice persecution of Christians on the scale of Domitian, Diocletion and Galerius (among others), but he reportedly had executed more than a few Christian leaders, including Ignatius (Bishop of Antioch) and Simeon (Bishop of Jerusalem), so I'm guessing St. Peter didn't look very kindly on Trajan when he knocked on the Pearly Gates.

Valid points. I do believe that Trajan accepted Emperor worship, as well. He accepted worship as a god. Kind of a no-no as far as wanting to enter into heaven. (The heaven as portrayed in the Bible, of course.)

So, I suppose if they were to do things properly, for Trajan, they should have an Emperor Cult option. Or perhaps that's what god king is. Perhaps they need a pantheon to match the policy.

 

[Martinus]

As I said in another thread, it would be good if religions were divided into cultural groups corresponding to the civ cultural groups, and AI leaders picked another random religion from their cultural group if their first choice wasn't available. It's quite immersion breaking that America picks Buddhism if it cannot get Protestantism for example.

The cultural groups would be:

European: Catholicism, Protestantism, Orthodoxy
Middle Eastern: Islam, Zoroastrianism, Judaism
East Asian: Taoism, Shintoism, Confucianism
Indian/South East Asian: Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism

 

[Martinus]

It is also odd that Christianity is divided into three flavors (Catholicism, Protestantism and Eastern Orthodoxy) while Buddhism, Islam and even Hinduism appear as one religion only - even though the differences between different sects of Buddhism and Hinduism are much bigger than those of Christianity or Islam. Oh well.

This is probably more related to civilization diversity than any religious differences. There are arguably 11 civilisations which can conceivably adopt some form of Christianity, and only one with Hinduism.

 

[Siptah]

What speaks against the theory that some civs have their own religions, pick a (random) symbol and create a 'custom' name? Gilgamesh may just choose Inanna and use a zodiac symbol, Cleo may choose Serapis and do the same.
And for Trajan in Heaven: IIRC Vergil and Dante met him near the entry to hell. So this is settled.

 

[Lord Lakely]

What are you talking about? Both the Aztecs and Romans preferred Catholicism in Civ5.

Mental note to self: don't make posts in the middle of the night. I meant Civ4, oops :X

 

[Hakan-i Cihan]

Why on Earth would Islam make sense for the Scythians? Zoroastrianism makes sense because the Scythians practiced a pre-Zoroastrian Iranian religion, which makes it a relative of Zoroastrianism; Orthodoxy makes sense because Ossetians are overwhelmingly Eastern Orthodox. I don't see how Islam would make sense at all.

Geographically Islam does make sense. Most of the lands of Scythia is part of modern day countries in which Islam is the most practised/believed religion. Here is the map of Scythia:

As you can see lands of Scythia fall in the following modern countries: Ukraine, Russia, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Kazaksthan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Afghanistan, Pakistan and India. The first three are mostly Orthodox, the next 6 have Islam as most believed religion and in India Hinduism the most practised belief.

 

[Acken]

What speaks against the theory that some civs have their own religions, pick a (random) symbol and create a 'custom' name? Gilgamesh may just choose Inanna and use a zodiac symbol, Cleo may choose Serapis and do the same.
And for Trajan in Heaven: IIRC Vergil and Dante met him near the entry to hell. So this is settled.

Isnt there a medieval legend of pope gregory helping trajan spul to go to heaven

 

[Siptah]

Isnt there a medieval legend of pope gregory helping trajan spul to go to heaven

Yes you are right. The scene I remembered is just outside Purgatorio, not Inferno. And later he is seen in heaven.

 

[Martinus]

I think the religion most appropriate (or least inappropriate) for Scythians would be Zoroastrianism.

 

[Sufyan]

Why on Earth would Islam make sense for the Scythians? Zoroastrianism makes sense because the Scythians practiced a pre-Zoroastrian Iranian religion, which makes it a relative of Zoroastrianism; Orthodoxy makes sense because Ossetians are overwhelmingly Eastern Orthodox. I don't see how Islam would make sense at all.

It's because some of the modern countries on territory the Scythian people inhabited are Turkic countries (Kazachstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan) which are predominantly Muslim. But I like Zoroastrianism best, too. I hope that's the choice they made for her.

 

[SMcM]

Not to pick a fight here or anything but do we know that Trajan is in heaven? At least heaven as portrayed in the Bible since you mentioned Christianity.

Sounds very unlikely to me Trajan would be in a Christian heaven; doesn't seem to meet a lot of the guidelines. Then again, Moses actions could also be argued to conflict with Jesus' teaching, and we know that he is supposed to be in heaven.

 

[Krajzen]

Honestly I always thought it is weird in recent civ games to have hinduism islam buddhism etc as unitary religions but have christian denominations as separate religions.

Okay, maybe it isn't that bad in case of christianity vs orthodoxy as first separations between those two happened very early, went into very different ways and spawned very different civilisation models, but "protestantism" as a separate religion is really ridiculous. I mean, protestantism - a reaction to catholicism with "protest" in its very name - in civ may appear before catholicism. That just feels weird.
Personally I'd divide christianity on just two great sects, Catholicism and Orthodoxy.

Btw I have never been fan of those mods addung absurd number of obscure religions just to make religion for every native civ. Seriously - "egyptian pantheon" "greek pantheon" or "roman pantheon" religion fall under, guess what, >pantheon beliefs<. Especially as such spiritual systems were restricted to very particular peoples and cultures (and gdography). All local cults of nature and spirits also fall under pantheon beliefs.

"Religions" of civ should be restricted to universalistic, massive systems that dominated human history (and after all thats the part of fun, seeing islam and shintoism fighting for hearts of Polish people):
Christianity
Orthodoxy
Islam
Judaism (that finds under "big religion" category due to its importance, durability and the fact it was spread across the world - Beta Israel, Khazars, ancient Arabia etc)
Hinduism (it is far too massive and sophisticated to be "just pantheon", and it has been spread across countless ethnic groups of Indian continent and SEA)
Buddhism
Confucianism
Taoism
Sikhism
Not sure about Shintoism, Tengriism and Jainism but they could work


Those 9-12 religions would be enough because of limited number of religions that can appear in one game anyway, in civ5 iirc limit was 7 on biggest maps (too many religion slots make the race for religion far less interesting and challenging)

Alternatively game could contain additional dozen or two symbols of indigenous cults around the world (celtic, incan, yoruban, shamanist beliefs) so human player could use one of them and name it, but AIs should be restricted to main religions.

 

[Martinus]

Krajzen, as I said already the main reason for that is the fact that you have a large number of Christian civilizations compared to those historically following other religions.

It has nothing to do with theological issues or difference, but the fact that if you had just one Christianity religion, in most games most "Christian" civs would have to found Islam or Buddhism.

Similarly, the reason for including Shintoism is that you have Japan in game (same with Tengrism and Mongols in Civ5).

Besides, when it comes to more obscure (but advanced) religions such as Zoroastrianism - isn't Civilization always about recreating and not just simulating history? If you can have civilizations like Kongo or Poland, you should also have more obscure or rare religions represented. Personally I would like to have some others in as well, such as Gnosticism or Mithraism (I agree that "Roman Pantheon" or "Egyptian Pantheon" probably fit under the pantheons as represented already in game - but Cult of Aten could qualify as an universalistic religion).