Learning AI

[Deep_Blue]

Funny, I don't wanna be disrespectful, but it seems to me that you have a somehow weird knowledge of learning AI's. On one hand, you know that they need several data to converge (although your cited at least 20 games is a completely random number), on the other hand you really think that AI wold become really intelligent !! You should know that no AI will ever (well for several years/decades at least) get that good that a human can't beat it (except very "simple" games, like chess)...

Funny, I dont want to be rude but but I dont know what the heck you are talking about. What is your point in clear English please? and when did I say that the AI will be really intelligent? real intelligent AI is a dumb idea by itself, when I said the AI becomes smarter I mean obviously it becomes more experienced with the game not real intelligence.

(although your cited at least 20 games is a completely random number

Here is what I said:

The AI has to play at least 20 games to start learning things that are as basic as learning how to walk.

see? I didnt specify the process to be learned in 20 games, I said "Basic things"... and "at least 20 games" was said as an example obviously!

 

[ShuShu62]

I have always found it interesting that a neural net rapidly taught itself backgammon, and has yet to get Chess, even though Backgammon has randomness while chess does not.

64 verses 24 cells
32 vs 30 pieces
144 outcomes per turn vs 60 outcomes per turn.

now scale to
1000 cells
1000 units
1 000 000 000 outcomes per turn to assess

Interestingly, simplify the problem to creating a learning AI for the lowly worker, in modern times with a rail network...
400 cells
1 unit
10 actions
4000 outcomes.

So, a learning AI for a single worker is an order of magnitude more complex than than a learning AI for chess. Maybe that's why the workers have been grinding the end game so much.

 

[timmey_o_tool]

Funny, I dont want to be rude but but I dont know what the heck you are talking about. What is your point in clear English please? and when did I say that the AI will be really intelligent? real intelligent AI is a dumb idea by itself, when I said the AI becomes smarter I mean obviously it becomes more experienced with the game not real intelligence.
/QUOTE]

Ok, ok, I wasn't clear, you are right. Actually, when I read your older post, I think I may have misunderstood what you said...

So, to get some sort of conclusion : It seems that the problem is way too complex. But this is somehow not satisfying.

Maybe a side question : Are the games AI's getting better with time, or do the game complexities scale faster so that it gets dumber ?

 

[Harald]

I think having a learning AI for civ as a whole is probably not a good idea wouldn't it be possible to implement a learning algorithm for certain problems as long as you manage to narrow down the scope of the problem? Of course then comes the question of whether it would be resource efficient to implement it on just sub-problems.

I will admit that my mind has been thinking about how one possibly could implement an algorithm for determining an "active war zone", which would limit the number of tiles for the case, and compare it to a case library to determine the appropriate action. To evaluate the actions you would need some form of reinforcement algorithm to improve performance. This would only improve the tactical AI though, if implemented in a good way. But Since my knowledge in the area is limited I haven't thought to much on it.

 

[Stalker0]

I think the best way to implement this in Civ would be to allow the civ to change their priorities more as the game goes on.

for example, all civs are given a way to determine how well they are doing in the game. How much land, money, wonders, etc.

All civs also have weights on certain values, such as expansion, aggression, etc.


If a civ finds itself doing poorly, it should be able to readjust its weightings to try and improve. If a peaceful civ is finding that diplomacy is working really well, they are getting gifts, there friends join them in wars, they are doing well in the world...then they should keep doing it. But if their friends keep snubbing them, and they are being left behind...then should become less friendly and perhaps more aggressive.