Letter To Firaxis From The Mod Community

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Some of the hardcore modmakers on Apolyton has taken the initiative to sending a letter to Firaxis speaking the concerns of scenario makers, and I think it would be cool if everybody who are concerned with the improvement of the editing tools in Civ3, go there, and sign the letter.

Post your name and email in this thread, if you agree to the concerns expressed below. The more people from the scen/mod community who signs the letter, the more weightier it will be. :)


http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=575694&t=230#post575694


techumseh has made a draft for the letter, which goes like this :

-- DRAFT ONLY--

Dear Firaxis,

Like Civers around the world, the scenario design community has waited with baited breath for the release of Civilization III. We have eagerly anticipated the new editing tools and the new and innovative concepts promised. We appreciated it very much when Firaxis relented and provided for more than 8 civilizations, a key victory for scenario designers. Most of all, we were delighted that Sid Meir and Firaxis were contracted to do the design, because we knew the excellence of your work and your sensitivity to our requirements.

So it was with bitter disappointment that we learned that the new game had no events capability at all. Disappointment turned to anger when we learned that it was impossible to place units or cities on the map. Clearly, as it now stands, NO scenarios will be possible with Civ3.

We believe that our community, including the many pioneers who paved the way for us, have contributed greatly to the success and longevity of Civ2. We believe that we can contribute in the same way to Civ3 as well. There are many outstanding aspects to the new game. It shows great craftmanship, but it leaves us standing out in the cold.

We appreciate Firaxis' committment to further improve editing tools in a patch. We would like to outline here what we consider the essential tools for creating good scenarios. If you provide these, we guarantee a steady supply of creative and fun scenarios for the whole civ community!

1. An effective scripting language. Events are essential to a good scenario. No AI, regardless of how good it is, can replicate historical events properly. Events at the quality level of Fantastic Worlds are the minimum, with an increased heap size to at least 100kb in order to deal with up to 16 tribes. We encourage you to go farther and incorporate some of the features found in Test of Time, especially multiple triggers and events that can be turned on and off.

2. We must be able to place units and cities on the map, including homing units to particular cities or to no city. This is basic. So are flat maps.

3. The various tools available in Civ2's cheat mode and scenario parameters are required, or new equivalents. If we can't add improvements to cities, and copy them in other cities, change money, or modify treaties and reputations, we can't make decent historical scenarios.

4. Map visibility is critical. We have to be able to reveal or hide the map at will, and do so from the point of view of any tribe. Revealing the map fully means being able to look into any city of any tribe, and make changes. And it means being able to run complete turns and observe the movements and actions of ALL units, regardless of their tribe.

5. Multiplayer is desireable and was certainly expected. However, PBEM (Play By Electronic Mail) scenarios are rapidly increasing in popularity. These are essentially hot-seat games in which the player takes his/her turn and emails the save game to the next player. Even if true multi-player can't be provided immediately, PBEM capability should be.

Members of our community are chomping at the bit to produce great scenarios with Civ3. Whether historical, fictional, fantasy or sci-fi, lots of scenarios have been percollating in our brains, just waiting for the release of the game. Please give us the tools to do the job! We look forward to your positive response to our suggestions. Thank you.

The Scenario Community,
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I'm not convinced they will listen without some economic clout behind it. I am taking my copy back and won't buy it until these issues are addressed.
Clearly one person taking a game back isn't a dent in their pockets.
Most people won't take it back but I do recommend not buying at all until this is dealt with.
 
The mods/scenarios available for Civ2 has contributed greatly to the longevity of Civ2, and... therefore also to the prolonged sales of this game. And Firaxis knows it very well.

So there's some weight behind the words, when those people who has helped "dig the trenches" for Civ2 speak up about their concerns. If they don't produce a patch, many will stick with Civ2, and Civ3 will not get the creative support it really needs. I have no doubt it WILL get creative support (it's already happening) sooner or later, but how soon depends heavily on the tools they're giving us to work with.
 
I'm not convinced they will listen without some economic clout behind it. I am taking my copy back and won't buy it until these issues are addressed.


Exactly ! That's was I was going to say. We shall all boycott civ3 until Firaxis listen to us and make the game we all want. They are now driven by economical reason and think of making more money by :

1) realsing the game quickly and unfinished, so money is made since the 30th of October.

2) They are planning to update the game several times like they did for civ2 (maybe even more times!) just to make us pay 3 or 4 times the game. That is completly abusive towards us, poor customers.

3) They will never take all our comments into accounts because it would take them to read this forum and they have no time to loose on such a thing. As long as they make money they are happy. They release civ3, people buy it, they make money - even if we are not fully satisfied with it, they have made their money from each of us and that's all they wanted. Now they can rest and count their $$$$ forgetting about us or planning a new way to cheat us with some kind of updates.

4) As long as the game look promising from OUTSIDE (nice graphics, and so on), people will buy it. They have understood this and don't need to care about triffle such as customer satisfaction. Anyway, everyone of us will only know how the game really is after having bought it. So even if it's half crap compared to what it could have been as the successor of civ2, they are sure that people will buy it because they liked Civ 1 and 2 before, The whole operation is based on the name of the game. The only title CIV3 :eek: and a few nice promises (hype) are enough to make it a $$$ magnet.

Don't buy until they really care for your, our opinion and make it the game WE want.
 
I don't think Firaxis will listen to jules
and his aggressive tirade,

Dat's for sure!!:eek:

I'm hoping for a patch (amateur or professional created) soon!
 
First, I think they held out all these scenario making tools on purpose, not to gain in profit from them later, but because they didnt have their own scenarios ready on time...They initially said 12 scenarios would be released with the game, but when they wanted to release the game on time, their scenarios werent done, and they didnt want the Mod community making better scenarios from the begining before their own original scenarios were to be release...So, im betting when they release a patch, which will include some scenarios, that will have the scenario makign tools with it...make sense?...
 
Originally posted by bulletsponge
First, I think they held out all these scenario making tools on purpose, not to gain in profit from them later, but because they didnt have their own scenarios ready on time...They initially said 12 scenarios would be released with the game, but when they wanted to release the game on time, their scenarios werent done, and they didnt want the Mod community making better scenarios from the begining before their own original scenarios were to be release...So, im betting when they release a patch, which will include some scenarios, that will have the scenario makign tools with it...make sense?...

Much sense. I was thinking along the same lines. Keep your fingures crossed!
 
You guys know it, and I know it. Firaxis knows how to make Civ-games work well in a multiplayer network, there was CivII Gold, and there was Alpha Centauri. Either they didn't have multiplayer support done at the deadline, or they prioritized getting the game out first. But they will realease a CivIII Gold edition, with multiplayer and stuff.
But hey, I don't blame them. The computer games industry is a *****. Worse then the movie industry. That's why I went with the movie industry ;)

Pax!
 
Originally posted by Utanapishti
You guys know it, and I know it. Firaxis knows how to make Civ-games work well in a multiplayer network, there was CivII Gold, and there was Alpha Centauri. Either they didn't have multiplayer support done at the deadline, or they prioritized getting the game out first. But they will realease a CivIII Gold edition, with multiplayer and stuff.
But hey, I don't blame them. The computer games industry is a *****. Worse then the movie industry. That's why I went with the movie industry ;)

Pax!

I dont think of it that way...I think of it this way, if i pay 50bucks for a game, how many hrs am i gonna get outta it...in this game, Civ3, probably 56 hrs in the first week, so that averages out to less than a buck an hr of fun, thats well worth it just for that 1 week, but since i own the game i will get countless countless and even more countless hours in the coming months, which averages out to what?...10 cents an hr?...lol, thats worth it even with out multiplayer, a scenario editor and minor glitches...which will all eventually be in...
 
thats worth it even with out multiplayer, a scenario editor and minor glitches...which will all eventually be in...

Without the scenario editor, I would have stopped to play civ2 since a long time and I would never have come to this forum, as I first discovered it looking for new graphics, maps and scenarios. :D
 
:mad: My Civ 3 is in the mail, and all I could think of was the scenario editor. Now this thread tells me it's not even a feature :mad: :mad: :mad: I had no problem waiting for the MP version but not providing the scenario editor is going to far.

Add my signature to that letter.
 
BTW Sid's last name is spelled "MEIER"

Civ-III is described as being "his" and so it is called

Sid Meier's

FWIW
:)
 
The letter has been sent now. Check the Civ3 General Discussions forum on Apolyton, if you want to read the final version. It's signed by many of the most prominent civ2 scenario creators/modmakers, as well as a lot of dedicated players. I think Firaxis will listen, if not do everything precisely the way we imagine... Afterall, Civ3 is very different from the previous games, and we can't expect everything to be like "in the ol'days"... ;)
 
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