Library/Maketplace slider duality

[shnishni]

can someone explain to me in a little more detail why to either build library or marketplace? I built only libraries and could only have my tech slider at 40% otherwise I was losing money. So, in my bigger cities I built a marketplace and a library (after making sure that a 50% increase would pay for the maintenence, and being conservative if there was3 or more corruption)

So, can you tell me where my sliders should be and what city imp's I should be builiding?


I also have no 'farms' can you tell me a good place to put them and explain them a little (I think i get it-you want a city that supports itself with a lot of food, so you can take the workers off and turn them into specialists, yes? then irigate the bonus tiles and keep workers there?)


on another note, seems like a good idea to build a courthouse if you have 2 or more corruption, right?

I haven't built temples this game, and i used to always build them. It doesn't seem to be causing too much harm. where and when should i build temples?

here's a save, thanks for all your help.nevermind. can't find where the save files are archived. help with that, anyone?


thanks

 

[Taras Bulba]

can someone explain to me in a little more detail why to either build library or marketplace? I built only libraries and could only have my tech slider at 40% otherwise I was losing money. So, in my bigger cities I built a marketplace and a library (after making sure that a 50% increase would pay for the maintenence, and being conservative if there was3 or more corruption)

well... libraries themselves help because they produce 3 culture. If you get enough of them, you can feel the dent on your per/turn science cost, but that usually just comes with time
Marketplaces help quite a bit if you have alot of luxuries. They make more citizens happy in cities if they have lots of luxuries connected, which allows for the lux slider to be set down more

So, can you tell me where my sliders should be and what city imp's I should be builiding?

I usually leave my science slider at 50 the entire game, unless something happens that would be in my benefit to change it. This includes this like: getting the Theory of Evolution, and I can't start and finish the tech in time, or I want to speed up the turn of a tech when its at 2 to 1 just for one turn.
Another benefit is when you're about to research a tech, you can sometimes go to the science slider and set it to 10-20% in order to maximize gold intake.

As for the luxury slider, I'll keep that at around 30-40% as a back up, but I try to keep it as low as I can without going into anarchy in alot of my cities. It helps alot to build marketplaces (as I said before)

I also have no 'farms' can you tell me a good place to put them and explain them a little (I think i get it-you want a city that supports itself with a lot of food, so you can take the workers off and turn them into specialists, yes? then irigate the bonus tiles and keep workers there?)

I would irrigate some territory, but not much. Having a high population means nothing without shields to back it up. I wouldn't irrigate bonus tiles, however. Mine them, and irrigate non-bonus grassland, in order to maxiumize the bonus.

on another note, seems like a good idea to build a courthouse if you have 2 or more corruption, right?

I've found that courthouses aren't worth building early on in the game (unless you have uncontrollable corruption in a large far away city)

I haven't built temples this game, and i used to always build them. It doesn't seem to be causing too much harm. where and when should i build temples?

build up your core culture, and unless you turn off cultural flipping, build it in your borders in order to prevent it. Temples help with that because they are the first culture-producing improvement

here's a save, thanks for all your help.nevermind. can't find where the save files are archived. help with that, anyone
thanks

what system do you have? (i.e.-Vista/XP/Mac)

 

[CommandoBob]

A library helps you get smarter faster and makes you look cultured as you increase in knowledge. Building it is generally a good thing, especially in your cities.

A market is very helpful in keeping your cities from revolting. This is a good build in your core and somewhat corrupt areas. With luxuries connected, it will help with happiness, so that the city is more productive. More happy people and fewer unhappy people means that more tiles can be worked (you won't need to make a citizen into a specialist to keep the city from revolting).

That is the big picture on these two buildings. For more detail see Multiplier Buildings: A Practical Primer.

As to the sliders and your game, that is really hard to answer without a save.

Cities in your core should have a library and market. Several will need a barracks, but not all of them. Some may need a aqueduct to grow larger, but settling by fresh water (river or lake) can save the cost and upkeep of the waterway. Granaries are sorta iffy, not for every city. Granaries help you grow faster and at higher difficulties that can be bad (more cranky citizens to keep happy).

Except for a Culture victory, ignore Temples. They help your borders expand; so do Libraries. Libraries help you learn; Temples do not. Build more settlers and make more cites instead of building Temples; your borders will expand faster (and cheaper).

Courthouses are not needed in the core but in places where corruption is higher, say 4 or 5 shields out of 11 or 12. The percentage of corruption is the key, not the number of corrupt shields.

 

[Aabraxan]

can someone explain to me in a little more detail why to either build library or marketplace?

There's an article on multiplier buildings in the War Academy & it's linked in my signature. Take a look at that for libraries, universities, banks and markets. One aspect of markets not dealt with in that article is that they increase the number of happy faces that you get from luxuries. In and of itself, that's usually reason enough to build them.

So, can you tell me where my sliders should be and what city imp's I should be builiding?

In part, it depends on your victory condition. For conquest or domination, raxes, markets, libraries, & perhaps a few banks & universities.

I also have no 'farms' can you tell me a good place to put them and explain them a little (I think i get it-you want a city that supports itself with a lot of food, so you can take the workers off and turn them into specialists, yes? then irigate the bonus tiles and keep workers there?)

You've got the concept right. There's an article in the War Academy on this, too: The Role of the Specialist Citizen by Bede. Here's the key: Neither food nor specialist output can be corrupted. Max food production in high-corruption areas & hire specialists.

on another note, seems like a good idea to build a courthouse if you have 2 or more corruption, right?

Depends on how much you'll get back. If you have CivAssist II, look at the economy tab to see how much good a courthouse will do in a given city. Sometimes, it'll only give you 1 of the 2 back, anyway.

I haven't built temples this game, and i used to always build them. It doesn't seem to be causing too much harm. where and when should i build temples?

When you're shooting for a culture victory.

. . . . I usually leave my science slider at 50 the entire game, unless something happens that would be in my benefit to change it.

With all due respect, I have to say that this doesn't strike me as a great idea. 50% means that you're too poor to buy techs and too slow to sell them. Either crank up that science slider to speed things up, or turn it down so that you've got the gold to buy something.

. . . . I would irrigate some territory, but not much. Having a high population means nothing without shields to back it up. I wouldn't irrigate bonus tiles, however. Mine them, and irrigate non-bonus grassland, in order to maxiumize the bonus.

In the core, I would mostly agree with this. Out in the specialist farms, though, it's a different story. Irrigate everything in sight and rail it. Settle on hilltops to free up more grassland, and along rivers to get pop even higher. Individually, specialist farms don't do that much for you. When you get 100 of them fully watered and railed, though, they generate a significant amount of gold, beakers & unit support.

 

[Taras Bulba]

With all due respect, I have to say that this doesn't strike me as a great idea. 50% means that you're too poor to buy techs and too slow to sell them. Either crank up that science slider to speed things up, or turn it down so that you've got the gold to buy something.

please, give me any tips I need. I'm not really that advanced in this game, I thought I'd just put my 2 cents in.

But most of the games I play at, I've been able to stay up with the AI if not too far ahead of them while staying in the decent economy range with my science slider at 50%

that's all I've known, but then again, I haven't passed Regent

In the core, I would mostly agree with this. Out in the specialist farms, though, it's a different story. Irrigate everything in sight and rail it. Settle on hilltops to free up more grassland, and along rivers to get pop even higher. Individually, specialist farms don't do that much for you. When you get 100 of them fully watered and railed, though, they generate a significant amount of gold, beakers & unit support.

I've never really set up specialist farms.... a big mistake on my part. I guess I never really thought about it

 

[Aabraxan]

please, give me any tips I need. I'm not really that advanced in this game, I thought I'd just put my 2 cents in.

But most of the games I play at, I've been able to stay up with the AI if not too far ahead of them while staying in the decent economy range with my science slider at 50%

that's all I've known, but then again, I haven't passed Regent

Maybe because you're leaving the science slider at 50%? Seriously, though, if you're keeping pace with the AI at 50% on Regent, crank it up & watch the difference that it makes. You'll be the tech leader in no time.

One of the ideas that I picked up in the TDGs in which I participated was this: Why keep gold around? Gold is only useful if you spend it on something: research, upgrades, etc. Otherwise, it's just asking for an AI to come demand it from you. The AI will not demand more than you have in the bank, so why not go ahead and spend it?

I've never really set up specialist farms.... a big mistake on my part. I guess I never really thought about it

Specialist farms sort of circumvent corruption. From The Unluckiest Lucky Start (Chapter 16 if you want to see the rest of the post), here's one of my favorite specialist farm pictures:

Spoiler :

In 1525 AD, I owned my continent and had probably 75-80 specialist farms, give or take a few. At 0% science, 603 bpt and 5 turns to The Corporation. I'm sure that there are better farmers than I who could have squeezed out more beakers than that, but I think it's a pretty good example of what you can do with farming.

 

[Taras Bulba]

thanks... I'll try that in my most recent game

 

[shnishni]

thanks....by 'farms' i actually meant specialist farms, should have been clearer, sorry. And i have vista---can't find save games in the program files/civ3 section, can't find them in the /users/games section....can't find them by searching....what to do?

 

[Mathias]

Location of saved games. This from the Quick Answers thread in August.

Myth5, it looks like you got this problem resolved, but I did a search through Tech Support. You may have already found these threads, but, if not, perhaps they'll be useful for future reference:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=7026753&highlight=saves+vista#post7026753

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=5607145&highlight=saves+vista#post5607145

 

[nerovats]

At 0% science, 603 bpt and 5 turns to The Corporation. I'm sure that there are better farmers than I who could have squeezed out more beakers than that, but I think it's a pretty good example of what you can do with farming.

And waste 349 at the end, better to raise science slider to 10% or so and get it in 4, or change some scientists into taxmen.

 

[Aabraxan]

And waste 349 at the end, better to raise science slider to 10% or so and get it in 4, or change some scientists into taxmen.

On the last turn, I always swap (almost) as many scientists to taxmen as possible. I try to minimize waste, while still accounting for settler & worker production, which may switch specialists to laborers. So yes, I could waste lots of beakers if I didn't make that switch, but I do try to pay attention to that.

 

[chrisman1]

And waste 349 at the end, better to raise science slider to 10% or so and get it in 4, or change some scientists into taxmen.

Or convert some of the scientists to tax collectors when you're 1 turn away from getting the tech. But that's a lot of extra work, so I'd probably go with the 10% thing too.

 

[nerovats]

I'd use 10% science as it will get the tech in 4, unles you really need the gold.

 

[CarthageFTW]

In the beginning of the game, I always start with 90% science in order to minimizie the time it takes me to reach The Rebuplic (Which I find alot harder in Vanillia than C3C ). but that's because once i reach the rebuplic (I play Japanese alot in vanillia) I switch and research/trade for other techs. 90% slider in depo is about the same as a 50/60% slider in rebuplic, so I find it a nessesity. After that, I leave science around 50%. Unlike some people though, I never use the luxury silder. I leave that job to luxeries and entertainers. (Btw, I'm a regent player).

 

[NickyH]

I built only libraries and could only have my tech slider at 40% otherwise I was losing money.

If you're loosing money with low science and luxury sliders, it could be because of high troop support. Take a look at your Domestic or Military Advisor to see how much it is.

If troop support is too expensive, the solution depends on what government you're in.