Linux

[bgast1]

Who's the Linux expert here? As soon as I clear one of my hard drives I am thinking about installing Linux, I have an old (year or 2) distro of Mandrake. I have an even older distro of Suse. I am curious as to what distro to use, and if maybe I might even consider downloading another one.

I expect to be running Windows XP on one hard drive and Linux on the other. Both hard drives are substantial size. 200 GB and 280 GB. I suspect that the Linux distro will seek out the non-windows partition, or at least allow me to pick.

 

[vbraun]

I would download a newer distro. Installation is actually fairly easy and straight forward on most linux distros.

As for which one to download, you'll have to wait for people to give reccomendations. (*cough* Padma *cough*)

 

[Speedo]

Definetly get a more up to date distro, something like Mandriva 2006. It, at least, comes with a boot manager that you can set up (have your comp boot to the linux drive first) to choose windows or linux.

 

[kingjoshi]

I've tried various Linux distributions in my time. I was a fan of Red Hat starting with version 5. Then went to Mandrake 7. I experiment with many distributions. For some time, I went back to Windows because laptop support has been shoddy. I was using Debian for while but am now using Ubuntu on my laptop. I seriously recommend getting the latest version of whatever distro you want to try.

The problem with Ubuntu is that it doesn't come with some multimedia capability installed because it's illegal in the US. You have to go online to find solutions for that. They're easy to install, but it's still an extra hurdle. Back then, getting the latest for Suse and Mandrake wasn't free, but I believe that's changed. They're more up-to-date with new software, but they're not as stable as Red Hat.

But then Red Hat changed that by creating Fedora. It has the same multimedia problems as Ubuntu. I chose Ubuntu because it has a lot of the stability of Debian while allowing you to have more modern apps. You can pick and choose better, imo.

 

[Padma]

I personally use Mandriva 2006. Suse 10 is also good, as is PCLinuxOS. I would download the latest version of a distro, because there have been quite a few improvements made over the last couple of years.

ANd pretty much any major distro you install these days will have a pretty easy dual-boot setup. Mandriva does it automagically for you.

 

[kingjoshi]

Oh yeah, first try the Live CDs to see how that version will handle your hardware. Very important!

 

[bgast1]

Depending upon whether I can get Civ III or Civ IV to play in Linux, I will find a distro and install it today. I will probably go to Borders and see if I can find the Mandriva 2006 on CD, or go to Best Buy and see what distro they have available. If neither have anything available I will go to the Mandriva website and pay to download it. Unfortunately, I will not be able to get rid of windows completely as my wife has programs that run under Windows that is networked through her work and occassionally she brings work home.

 

[bgast1]

Well I purchased and downloaded Mandriva Discovery/LX. I have it installed along with windows xp. Need to check which hard disk it is installed on and learn Linux still. The display is a little large on my monitor but I'm sure I can get that figured out too. Installing it was a real pain in the but though because I didn't like the way it installed at first and I had to go and repartition both of my hard drives and re-install both Windows and Linux.

If any of you have any tips on getting started I would love to hear them.

 

[kingjoshi]

What are your goals from using Linux? I mean, mostly I just use my computer and forget what OS I'm using.

But in general terms of getting started, just figure out what you like. You can spend hours just configuring and reconfiguring things the way you like because it's so customizable. Desktop layout, stuff on the taskbar, etc.

I assume Mandriva would use KDE instead of Gnome, right? If you have both, figure out what you like. You can run applications for each on the other, so it's not a big deal. But experiment with the various multimedia applications and so forth. I like Juk to play music. Amorak was good but unstable for me. I used to exclusively use xmms (similar to winamp) but that doesn't keep a music libary. Just experiment with software to get a feel for it.

I assume Mandriva allows easy installation from a repository of software. But having to install something from not on that list is a good learning experience. You can download and install Opera.

 

[Padma]

Mandriva runs the KDE desktop by default, but Gnome is an option available on the install CDs. Many other Window Managers are also available through the repositories, if they're not on the CDs.

The *very first* thing to do after installing Mandriva, is to visit the site http://easyurpmi.zarb.org. Follow the instaructions there, selecting your version (If Discovery/LX is not there, go with 2006), and clicking the "Step 2" button. In Step 2, select a "main", "updates", "contrib", and "plf-free" and "plf-nonfree" repositories, picking sites from the frop-down lists relatively near you (for faster access -- although I find the best sites for me are in Paris, and I am in the USA! ). Then click "Step 3". Copy the output displayed and paste it into a terminal (Konsole) window after you "su" to root. When the commands finish running, you will have access to everything that is available in the Powerpack edition, other than the commercial/proprietary apps.

To access the software repositories to install/update software, just click on the Star menu, and go to "System --> Configuration --> Configure your computer". After entering your root password, you will be in the Mandriva Control Center, where the top-most tab is the software manager (rpmdrake). It should be pretty self-explanatory from there. IMHO, the biggest mistake "noobs" make when starting with Linux is trying to install things the Windows way: going to a (random) site, downloading an rpm (or even source code) and trying to install it directly. Using the repositories guarantees that everything you install from them is tested (and tweaked, if necessary) to run in your version of Mandriva. (Opera is one exception I make. )

Personally, I like amaroK for music, Kaffeine for video, Opera for web browsing (although both Firefox and Konqueror are installed by Mandriva, and are available from the menus). You can run Civ3 and Civ4 in Linux, but you need to subscribe to Cedega (http://transgaming.com) to get something that will allow them to be played. (You can subscribe for the minimum 3 months ($5/month), download what you need, and never worry about them again. )

I'm not terribly familiar with the Discovery/LX edition, as I generally just go for the free download, and update it using EasyUrpmi. If it didn't install the proprietary video drivers for your card, you probably want to visit ati.com or nvidea.com to download and install the correct Linux drivers.

I agree with kingjoshi, in that I generally just *use* my computer, and almost forget the OS while I work.

 

[bgast1]

Well, I like to play around alot, and my goal will be to learn as much about Linux as I can as well. In the past, with the exception of the computer that I am on now, I have always built my own. For a while, because I couldn't afford to go to school I was intent upon trying to educate myself and become certified so that I could find a job in the IT field. Since then I have just gotten older (I am only going to be 55 in July) and less ambitious and pretty much gave up getting a decent job in a decent line of work anymore. People just don't want to hire you anymore, regardless of how much experience you have, if you don't have a college degree.

@Padma -- man, am I kicking myself. I should have asked more questions. I could have had it all for free. Instead I paid somewhere around $35.00 for a very stripped down version of Mandriva.

I guess I will just go about reading all of the instructions and start out slow. But yes in the long run, I despise Microsoft, so I figured I needed a change.

 

[bgast1]

I managed to get Opera installed. How do I get a desktop shortcut like in Windows, or down at the bottom on the taskbar like Firefox Lite, which is the default browser for Mandriva?

Perhaps these are stupid questions, but I haven't got that far reading the documentation yet.

Next task is to try and install Civ III

 

[Padma]

Okay, Opera should be in your menu system, under "Star --> Internet --> Web Browsers", right? So just right-click on the Kicker (the taskbar at the bottom), and go to "Panel Menu --> Add to Panel --> Application --> Internet --> Web Browsers --> Opera". Simple. (A desktop icon is just slightly more complicated.You should be able to figure it out from: "Rightclick on desktop --> Create New --> Link to Application..." )

For CivIII, remember that you have to install it via Cedega, or it won't work.

 

[bgast1]

I looked for it under "Star -->Surf the Internet -->Web Browsers" but it doesn't show up there. I was only able to use it from the "run" menu. It shows up under "Recent Documents" though as ".Opera" I'll try what you just said. However, I have been using Firefox for awhile even in Windows. Why do you prefer Opera? I used it a little bit a while back in Windows but never got totally excited about it, but I have heard over the years that it is the browser of choice in Linux.

There is a time trial for Cedega, which I downloaded (to the desktop, I didn't know where else to download it to, and Firefox did not allow me the option to install), now I just have to get it installed. When the time limit is up, I will probably pay. By the way, I am reading the instructions on how to install and for some reason, I am just not getting it.

I appreciate your help.

 

[Padma]

Aarrgghh! I had a whole long post typed up, and then my stupid IE window disappeared! (I'm at work, and stuck with IE here.)

I'll backfill this later when I get the chance.

Edit:

I looked for it under "Star -->Surf the Internet -->Web Browsers" but it doesn't show up there. I was only able to use it from the "run" menu. It shows up under "Recent Documents" though as ".Opera" I'll try what you just said.

Hmmm. Must be one of those subtle differences between "Discovery/LX" and the "normal" 2006 release.

I'm a little surprised, though, because I just downloaded the latest version of Opera (8.54) last night, double-clicked on the D/Led rpm file, and it installed just fine, including updating my menus, IIRC. Did you choose the Mandriva rpm to download?

Anyway, you can still add Opera to your menus, if you want. First, find out if you installed it for "all users" or just for yourself. To do that, open a Konsole window and type "which opera". This will search your system and personal paths to find where it is. If this comes up empty, try "which ".Opera". (The leading "." is important, as is the capital "O". Linux is case-sensitive, and filenames beginning with "." are treated as 'hidden' by the "ls" command. They can be seen via a "ls -a", or by checking the "View hidden files" option in Konqueror.)

If opera is found in seomeplace global, like "/usr/bin/opera", then it is available for all users. if it is found in your home directory (e.g., "/home/bgast1/opera"), it is just for you. You can open the Mandriva Control Center, and browse through the tabs on the left to find the page that has "Menus" on it. I think it's the "System" tab, but I'm at work, and can't check. Open the menu editor, and choose 'System Menu' if prompted. Open up the menu tree on the left (using the little "+" boxes) to get to the location your other browsers are found. click the "Add" button, and enter Opera for the name, and add the path to Opera as the command (e.g., /usr/local/bin/opera). You can ckick the icon button to select an appropriate icon (Opera should have one in the standard icon lists that come up). Click Save/OK/anything_but_cancel to back your way out of the menu editor, and then try out the menu entry.

However, I have been using Firefox for awhile even in Windows. Why do you prefer Opera? I used it a little bit a while back in Windows but never got totally excited about it, but I have heard over the years that it is the browser of choice in Linux.

Well, I prefer Opera because I have been using it for many years, before Firefox was even close to release. IIRC, the first version I used was 5.0. I am more comfortable with it. In the early Linux days, when the free browsers (Konqueror, Nautilus, Evolution, etc.) still left a lot to be desired, Opera was a quality browser that was available for Linux users. Since Firefox's release, however, a majority of users prefer it, if only because it is free/open-source, as compared to Opera, which is proprietary.

There is a time trial for Cedega, which I downloaded (to the desktop, I didn't know where else to download it to, and Firefox did not allow me the option to install), now I just have to get it installed. When the time limit is up, I will probably pay. By the way, I am reading the instructions on how to install and for some reason, I am just not getting it.

I appreciate your help.

When I installed Mandriva2006, it created a Download directory for me. (Along with Documents, Pictures, Music, etc. ) I have configured all the browsers I use to download to that directory. Keeps the desktop cleaner.

I don't know about the demo, but when I downloaded the full version, IIRC I got a .rpm file, which I just double-clicked, etc. With a few more details (i.e., the full name of the file you downloaded), I can probably help a little better.

 

[bgast1]

Is there even the slightest possibility that Discovery/LX would/could prevent you from downloading installing upgrades or additional software easily?

Does the free 2006 version have all of the drivers, etc that Discovery does, and does it install the same way? If so, then I will may must consider myself out the $35.00 (cheap as I am) and go and download the free version and go from there.....Or I might go to Borders, after I get paid and buy a book that contains a distro. I know Suse has a book out with the latest distro.

 

[Padma]

The major drivers that do *not* come with the free version are the proprietary video drivers. The free drivers that come with it are excellent for 2D stuff, but are somewhat lacking for 3D. If you don't mind some manual installation, it's not usually hard: just go to the ati or nvidea site as appropriate, download the driver, and run the associated install script(s). Then a little tweaking of your video settings (like you have already done), and voila!

In any case, you should be able to go to the EasyUrpmi site and set up everything for upgrades/additional software. The "contrib" mirrors have much of the additional software, and the "updates" mirrors have, of course, the updates.

BTW: you have no idea how frustrating it is to want to reach through the internet, grab your mouse, and go clicking "Right *here*! click this, type this here", etc.

 

[kingjoshi]

remote desktop works for all platforms you know

 

[Padma]

Yeah, but it's kind of hard when I don't know his address, I'm currently running Windows, and I'm supposed to be doing work, anyway.

 

[bgast1]

Rather than be a pain in the neck right now, I am going to do some reading of the documentation and see if maybe there is something quirky about Discovery/Lx and I will also download the free version probably, go back to EasyUrpmi, and if necessary go to Nvidia and get the necessary video driver, which I know exists because I already downloaded it once. This will take me a couple of days, at least to do, I have to do a 12 hour shift overnight from Monday at 2000 until 0800 Tuesday, so Sunday night, maybe a while Monday morning will be the only time I can seriously work on this. After that if I have any questions I'll ask.

BTW -- It would be nice if you could reach through the internet also. Except I'm not sure of my address either, and I doubt we could find a schedule that would be convenient for either one of us. Give me a few days, I'll see what I can solve on my own. I just need to fool around with this some more and do some reading.