LK110 - Spain - Noble - just win baby!

Roster:
LKendter (skip until Nov 27)
ThERat
Pindicator - up (skip Nov 24 to Nov 27) (skip Dec 1 to Dec 3)
Double Stack -on deck (skip Nov 25 to Nov 28)
Vol
 
Wanted to say that I won't be available on Nov 25 til Nov 28 inclusive.
 
Signed up:
LKendter (skip Nov 22 to Nov 27)
ThERat (on deck)
Not sure what do to. Do we wait several days, or play a two player for a bit?


Pindicator (skip Nov 24 to Nov 27) (skip Dec 1 to Dec 3)
Double Stack (skip Nov 25 to Nov 28)
Vol (currently playing)
Remember 10 turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to at complete.
 
Wait a second, I'm currently playing? :crazyeye: I played just before ThERat did!

I think the point of an SG is that its a team event, not a race to the finish. Seems like it would be better to just wait until everyone comes back than to rush this. Then again, I don't have 100+ of them under my belt.

ThERat and I are no Sirian & Sulla, but we can press ahead if you really want.
 
Signed up:
LKendter (skip Nov 22 to Nov 27)
ThERat
Pindicator (currently playing) (skip Nov 24 to Nov 27) (skip Dec 1 to Dec 3)
This game goes into delay more until Pindicator can play.

Double Stack (on deck) (skip Nov 25 to Nov 28)
Vol
Remember 10 turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to at complete.
 
Okay, time to shake off the turkey stains and see what's goin on in LK110...
I'm back a bit earlier than I thought, so let's get this going again!

On the National Epic being built in Madrid: So this city is to be our specialist town then? In which case we should put in as many wonders as we can, as well as running as high a population for specialists as we can. Specifically, I think it's our great prophet town.
Force another Priest in Madrid. We want those Great Prophets ASAP for our temples. Still 5 left to build.
Switch Valencia to a Lighthouse: the purpose of this city is to bring in more commerce to our civilization. Working the water tiles is then what it should do, and the Lighthouse is far more in tune with this goal than a Courthouse.
MM Barcelona for commerce -- I think a few more cottages would be good here as well.

1) 1410AD
Toledo: Courthouse -> Theatre. Not so much for happiness as to get the pre-requisite for Globe.

Judaism spreads to Machu Picchu.

2) 1420AD
Qin Shi comes back -- he's always buggin me! -- and wants us to declare on Germany now. Wasn't it Cyrus he wanted me to kill my last turnset? Anyway, I tell him to buzz off yet again. Germany has nothing but good feelings for us and shares our religion why Qin Shi is just like the annoying kid in high school who won't stop kissing up to you.

Seville: Jewish Miss. -> Jewish Miss. I also MM the town to allow it to grow, since it is well within happiness and healthiness boundaries.
Cordoba: Library -> Aquaduct

Take a look at our civics...
I think soon we should go for a military push to strengthen our defenses. When we do so, we need to switch to Theocracy. But as for now enough towns continue to build infra that we need the Organized Religion.
I don't think we will ever need to use Hereditary Rule due to the amount of happiness we have.

3) 1430AD
Population hits 5 Million.
Madrid: National Epic -> Jewish Temple (for more Priests).

Judaism spreads to Murcia.
Trade Cyrus Philosophy for Music and 10g. He is the only one w/o Philo and Music is needed for Cavalry, should we decide to exercise a bit of "manifest destiny".

4) 1440AD
Seville: Jewish Miss. -> Jewish Miss.
Toledo: Theatre -> Barracks (a good town for military production, I think).

5) 1450AD
Learn Printing Press and enter the Renaissance era. Our economy improves 5gpt.
I know Education was discussed as the next tech to research, but I am going to pick up Guilds first. The reason is it gets us our UU, as well as Grocers for healthiness and money.

Barcelona: Market -> Aquaduct (this town is pulling in 30gpt right now. We should pick up Banking to help this out).
Murcia: Lighthouse -> Library
Madrid: Jewish Temple -> Jewish Synagogue (allows more priests)

Zoroaster (a great prophet) is born in Madrid. I send him to Barcelona.
I force another Priest in Madrid because of the Temple finishing. Never should have considered Angkor earlier on -- we have so many religions we can just spread them and build more temples if we want more priests. Oh well. We're still all learning.

6) 1460AD
Seville: Jewish Miss. -> Jewish Miss.
Santiago: Courthouse -> Theatre



I wonder if this is the best choice. With the 3 priests you get from the Holy City Wonders (what was I thinking with Angkor Wat? :smoke: ) I was tempted to build in Madrid. But Barcelona is the town built for producing wealth, so I built the Great Temple there first.
We are now at +6gpt. That's 16gpt better than 6 turns ago.

Judaism spreads to Toledo. Every city now has our state religion.
We now want to focus on spreading Confuciansim as well. Considering Santiago is building a Theatre which is not greatly needed, I switch it to Confucian Miss. It should continue to pump out these missionaries.

7) 1470AD
Cordoba: Aqueduct -> Market. This town is much more a commerce town than a production town.

8) 1480AD
Qin Shi again... man, doesn't this guy have a home? He wants us to concel our Persian deals and I send him off pouting.
Barcelona: Aquaduct -> Confucian Miss.
Seville: Jewish Miss. -> Jewish Miss.
Toledo: Barracks -> Market
Salamanca: Barracks -> Library

9) 1490AD
China and Germany sign peace.

10) 1500AD
Seville: Jewish Miss. -> Jewish Miss.
Santiago: Confucian Miss. -> Confucian Miss.

Confucian in Cordoba.

No pic, because nothing has really changed.

Notes:
Continue spreading religion! Confucianism now should be spread with the same zealotry as Judaism due to our new Holy Temple.
Seville is continuing to churn out Jewish Missionaries (and one should go to the German island town of Cologne since our Galley is down there now.
Santiago is now producing Confucian Missionaries en masse for the same reason. Our gpt has gone up 19 over 10 turns just due to religion being spread. If we get banks after guilds then we will have the money coming in.
Remember to save the National Wonder of Wall Street for Barcelona. This town should be a financial center of our kingdom. Consider swapping some of its mines to Windmills and as many farms to cottages as we can.
Guilds due next turn. I would research Banking next so we can get a ton of money from Barcelona.
City Specialization - Civ4 is a game of city specialization. With that in mind, here is how I think the cities should be tailored in our empire:

Madrid - Population: farms and windmills. This is our specialist producer. Currently we need to pump as many priests as possible for Great Prophets.
Barcelona - Finance: Cottages, windmills, and later on watetmills. Build Banks and Wall Street here.
Cordoba - Commerce
Santiago - Production
Toledo - Production
Murcia - Commerce
Salamanca - Production
Seville - Production
Valencia - Commerce

Of course, these are debatable. Basically, which cities had more than a couple mines I chose for production while those with lots of ocean/grassland I picked for commerce. Madrid is our specialist city by virtue of the Nationa Epic -- we will want as many wonders in this town as possible, as well, for the GPP.
Madrid, however, needs more farms badly.

I would not chop any more plains/forests. Unless there is a specific reason, lumbermills IMO are best on these tiles. However, I love that there is not a catch-all for this game, so please tell me how wrong I am so I can learn a new strat :)

And of course, primarily, Spread The Faith!
 
Signed up:
LKendter (on deck) (skip Nov 22 to Nov 27)
ThERat
Pindicator (skip Dec 1 to Dec 3)
Double Stack (skip Nov 25 to Nov 28)
Vol (currently playing)
Remember 10 turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to at complete.
 
Me again, huh? Alright, got it. Will follow pindicator's ample guidance this eve.
 
(0) 1500 AD
In case anyone has forgotten our 6-religion empire, here's an overview:


And our finances:


I copy pindicator's suggested specializations for my own reference:
Madrid: Population/Specialists
Barcelona: Finance
Cordoba: Commerce
Santiago: Production
Toledo: Production
Murcia: Commerce
Salamanca: Production
Seville: Production
Valencia: Commerce

I rename the cities with a (P) or a (C) after them to denote Production or Commerce. Feel free to change them back (by clicking on the city name in the city screen) if you hate this, but it makes it infinitely more easy for me.

Quick note about cities focused on Commerce. Building Markets, Grocers, and Banks has almost no benefit if we're running a high Science rate, as those improvements only increase the gold after the percentage is applied. Research boosters should be the first priority for the "Commerce" towns. As such, I change many Markets to Monasteries, on the theory that +10% of 80% is better than +25% of 20% (8% vs. 5%).

We have the Jewish and Confucianism Shrines built, both are in Barcelona. This makes Barcelona the exception to the above rule, as Shrine income comes in directly as gold, and thus gets multiplied by Banks and Markets, having never gone through the percentage cut between Research and Gold.

I look around try and determine how we might win this game.
- Histographic: Maybe. We're ahead in points, so it is not ruled out, however painful it might be.
- Cultural: No. We lack a decent third city to make three 50k cities very unlikely.
- Spaceship: Maybe. Never rule this one out, its always an option. This is probably the only option we could lose by.
- Domination: No. Very unlikely given our current 18.5% of the needed 64% land requirement, and the fact our military is ranked #6.
- Conquest: No. Same as above.
- Diplomatic: ... Yes? Here's one where we have a decisive ability, and is likely the fastest win. We already have 3 other civs sharing our state religion. And I think Cyrus (Persia) can be converted as well. Having many cities with the same state religion is a sure-fire way to get a +4 to +7 diplomatic boost. This should be enough to get votes for Diplomatic victory on Noble. The risk is having everyone go Free Religion before the vote.

Thus, in the interest of winning the game (per the title of the game), I plan to send as many Jewish Missionaries as the National Unit limit (only 3 missionaries of one type allowed) will allow to other nations to gain favor with them now, and to gain their votes later. :mischief:

Unbelievably, Mass Media (required to build the U.N.) is only 6 techs away!
- Astronomy in 12
- Scientific Method in 14
- Physics in 18
- Electricity in 23
- Radio in 23
- Mass Media in 21

Of course, that sort of bee-line is something I've never considered doing (or heard of) in Civ4. But its out there! :D 111 turns of research, then around 20 turns to build the U.N., and then around 6 turns to get voted in... that would leave us with 83 turns to go. Let's see if we can beat that (ridiculous) mark by researching techs that make us research and build faster.

(1) 1505 AD
We learn Guilds. Very intersting research choices:

Nationalism has the Hermitage National Wonder for +100% culture in one city, and the Taj Mahal Wonder for a free golden age, but it is a very large Wonder to build.
Education for the University to speed up our research, but they are not small improvements to build.
Astronomy for the obvious reason that its one step closer to victory, and also has the Observatory for more research boost.
And of course, Gunpowder for better defense.
But I must select Banking for 50% gold boosting Banks, which we'll need to get building if we want Wall Street as soon as possible.

Barcelona: Confucian Missionary -> Grocer in 6 for the +25% on the city's 32 base gold (will add +8 gold/turn!)
Seville: Jewish Missionary -> Conquistador in 4 to improve our defenses while waiting for a Jewish Missionary to be used up (we're at the limit).

Cyrus (Persia) builds the Hagia Sophia Wonder (+50% worker improvements).

We add Confucianism to Seville with a Missionary.

I catch the two other Jewish Missionaries on auto-move to Victoria's heavily Taoist lands, and divert them to Cyrus, who I think is both bigger and easier to convert.

(2) 1510 AD
Arbela (Persian) has Judaism added to it (had Taoism). I thus start a new Jewish Missionary at Seville, putting the Conquistador on hold.

(3) 1515 AD
Salamanca: Barracks -> Conquistador in 8. We're way behind in military, want to stave off an invasion from Tokugawa.
Toledo: Jewish Monastery -> Conquistador in 5.

(4) 1520 AD
We learn Banking. I start Replaceable Parts in 8, as I think we need better tiles than we do more buildings to build.

Seville: Jewish Missionary -> Resumes Conquistador in 3.
Cordoba: Confucian Monastery -> Resumes Market in 7.

(5) 1525 AD
Victoria wants us to cancel Open Borders with China. But we'd much rather make her mad than China, as she isn't voting for us at the moment anyway.

Santiago: Confucian Monastery -> Confucian Missionary in 3.

We add Judaism to the Persian capital of Persepolis, which was previously Taoist.
We add Judaism to Parsargadae (Persian), which was Islamic.

Cyrus now has one religion in his 3 biggest cities, with another few Missionaries incoming. Hopefully, he'll switch soon, but he's not Spiritual, so it would come at a cost. We need to make it worthwhile.

(6) 1530 AD
BOOYEAH :woohoo:


So now the world religious scene looks like this:

After we solidify Cyrus a bit more, lets try for Victoria, on a whim.

Qin Shi Huang (China) is the first to discover Liberalism (and thus get the free technology). He took Astronomy. So he's up Education, Liberalism, and Astronomy. We are unable to do any tech trading. Perhaps a little more Judaism would soften them up!

(7) 1535 AD
Barcelona: Grocer -> Bank in 9. The Grocer was a 9 gold/turn boost, the Bank should be double that, and allow us to run 100% science.
Seville: Conquistador -> Jewish Missionary in 2.

(8) 1540 AD
Cyrus, now our Jewish buddy, comes asking for Printing Press out of the kindness of our hearts. Well if he think he's our buddy now, wait until we convery all of his cities. His request is denied.

Toledo: Conquistador -> Jewish Missionary in 2.
Santiago: Confucian Missionary -> Confucian Missionary in 3.

We successfully add Confucianism to Toledo (had Judaism and Islam).

(9) 1545 AD
Seville: Jewish Missionary -> Confucian Missionary in 2.

Susa (Persian) is now a follower of Judaism, in addition to already-present Confucianism (A Spanish two-for-one!). Thats four Persian cities. Its time to focus on Victoria (England) next.

(10) 1550 AD
Toledo: Jewish Missionary -> Confucian Monastery in 3, for research boost and the day when we're not running Organized Religion.
Murcia: Library -> Jewish Monastery in 10.

I put the Jewish Missionary from Toledo in the Galley, bound for Cologne. The Galley can go into Cologne, unload the Missionary, and convert the city all next turn.

And the resulting finances:

33% more beakers. Go Monasteries (and being able to go up to 90% research due to Grocer and more converted cities). The financial goal for the next 10 turns should be the Bank in Barcelona and more Judaism and Confucianism, gaining us at least +15 gold/turn, allowing us to run 100% science.

Other notes:
- Confucianism for our towns.
- Judaism for Victoria next.
- Then more Judaism for everyone else, so that they start loving us.
- Continue specialization of towns. I went pretty hard-core on the plan when it came to tile improvement and city MM. If you see a crazy city MM assignment, blame the specialization.
- Monasteries for Commerce (C) towns (and some of the coastal (P) towns).
- Conquistadors and Missionaries from Production (P) towns.
- Replaceable parts in 2: that means Lumbermills! (and those Windmills get +1 hammer) The capital is most in need of those Lumbermills, but Toledo needs 4 of them as well.
- Hopefully we can trade Replaceable parts for Education and Gunpowder from Qin Shi Huang and Victoria.
- There are two cities within 2 population of their happiness limit. But we haven't even tried to build all the temples we have available, so I was making our cities grow as much as I could. I think we should have no city with less than a 2 food surplus, and preferrably 4 or 5 where we can.

And a minimap:


--- The Save ---

Roster:
This one confuses me, I'm going to let LK tell us what it is.
 
Although if ThERat is out there, bored, in his minority time zone, I'm sure LK wouldn't object to him taking it. It is his turn, I think, and he's gone as long without playing as I had (2 turnsets).
 
Heh, I'd bet you get some serious shrine income there =)
 
Signed up:
LKendter (currently playing)
ThERat (on deck)
Pindicator (skip Dec 1 to Dec 3)
Double Stack (skip Nov 25 to Nov 28)
Vol
Remember 10 turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to at complete.
 
The official position for the patch is that all LK series games should be played using the 1.09 patch.
 
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/LK110_AD-1600.zip

1550 AD
Our military is pathetic. Even if most of the civs like us, I still want more military.


1555 AD
(ST) I guess one of these days I should read the manual so that I can understand the value of we love the despot day. I doubt I can figure it out from the Civlopedia.

I spread Confucianism to Salamanca.


1560 AD
Cologne has adopted the Jewish faith.

Confucianism has been spread to Murcia.

We have some spare cash, so I upgrade a sword to mace.


1580 AD
(ST) We get a great artist in Madrid. :(
I have no idea what to do with him.

York has adopted the Jewish faith.


1595 AD
(ST) The FP was completed in Santiago.
I upgraded a warrior to pikeman to help our lame military.

London now preaches Judaism.


==========================

Summary:
The "great" artist is standing by Santiago waiting for a suggested use.

Signed up:
LKendter
ThERat (currently playing)
Pindicator (on deck) (skip Dec 1 to Dec 3)
Double Stack
Vol
Remember 10 turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to at complete.
 
got it,

maybe we should use it to corner Cologne with a culture bomb. That's the only city I think we can take over via culture. Or is this impossible since Cologne is on an Island? Any advice on this?

I don't think upgrading is worth the money, rather use to speed up techs, upgrades are ridiculous expensive in Civ4.
 
Getting a free tech from a Great Person is usually a good deal. I use a personal rule of thumb that says if the beakers the tech requires is greater than ~5 times the number of turns remaining, it's not a bad use.

The Culture Bomb effect isn't really of any use to us right now, and I doubt it will be in the future. Are there any resources that are one tile outside our borders that we could gain by using the culture bomb in the nearest city?

If we think someday we might need the culture bomb, though, we could just keep him around. Of course, he could be combined with another Great Person of another type for an 8 turn golden age, but I personally think they are a bit underpowered with just 8 turns. Feel free to convince me otherwise, I just don't "get" the Civ4 golden age yet. Maybe its worth 2 Great People, but 3? 4?

We Love the King Day means that city pays 0 maintenance for that turn. I had quite a few of them during my turns (3 or 4), but since they usually amount to 1 gold, maybe 2, they are definitely not worth mentioning.
 
As far as Great People go, it all depends...
A shame that we got a Great Artist :( This is why we need to pump as many Priest Specialists as possible out of Madrid.

The larger the empire, the greater the help of a Golden Age (and consequently, the less effective the other options are for Great Leaders).

Considering we have a Great Artist, we can use him to push/solidify borders in 3 locations that I can see. None of them seem too important, however.

1) Valencia -- Japans borders a bit close in the north. This should push them back and possibly put pressure toward a possible Hittite flip.
2) Santiago -- Cologne is the southern offshore island town; if we want to peacefully grab it, this would be the way. I see LK sent the Artist in that direction, also.
3) Cordoba -- Push those Incan borders back on Corihuayrachina. The least likely option, I think.

This Artist will put +1214 beakers towards Nationalism, or a little more than what we can churn out in a little over 4 turns. Unless we very much want to push for technology (which we could consider) I would suggest not doing this.

I say we either sit on him or cash in the beakers. The GAs in Civ4 are still very helpful, but I don't think we're large enough that the GA would be too beneficial. (Also, our only Great People possibilities are Artists or Prophets, and the next 4 Prophets are spoken for already.) If anything, we can decide later or if we need a culture boost in any town later on we can always use him then.
 
On further review of the save:

1) LK spread Confucianism well, but we have no missionaries in the field and no towns currently producing them. Change a Caravel town over -- every converted town is more $$$ in Barcelona.

2) Madrid can run more priests and consequently needs to have more farmland. Cut those trees down and run more Priest specialists. We want this town as large as possible. Since we have chosen to build The Spiral Mineret (I doubt we'll complete this, considering other civs have had this tech for some time) we can wait until after its completion.
 
I strongly disagree with cutting down trees in Madrid. Lumbermills and railroads, those are 2 food, 3 hammer tiles. Once we have biology, the existing grassland farms will be 4 food anyway.

I also think we should be very careful with spreading Confucianism to other civs, as this may induce them to flip religions, or more likely to convert to Free Religion when it becomes available. Judaism in every single town on the map should be the first goal, and then maybe a bit of Confucianism in the worst towns. All towns are equal in the eyes of the Shrine, but not all towns are equal to an AI when selecting religions and civics.
 
went for lumbermills and spread our faith

save

Pre-Turn
Leave the Great Person alone for the time being
Madrid: we want it to grow and we would love the Spiral Minaret, yet we employ 3 specialists
fire them for now and get the Minaret down to 16 with growth in 3
since Seville will finish heroic epic, it will be the mil provider
Toledo, swap to market for added happiness and money

looking at the civics, maybe we should change to herrditary rule and mercantilism
I'll test it, if it won't do us good, we can always change back
our income drops to 21gpt, but we now have a free specialist per town
Minaret drops to 14 turns now

1. 1605AD
Tokugawa starts a GA, our missionary is going way back to Germany since Tokugawa isn't in the mood for open borders

2. 1610AD
another jewish missionary is sent out

3. 1615AD
Madrid has grown to pop 13 now, Sevilla is churning out conquistadores, but disband warriors to keep unit cost low
while waiting for observatories, set some cities for theatres (we would like that Globe Theatre)

IT Astronomy is finally in, go for economics, since other techs are out already

4. 1620AD
Nottingham is coverted as well now
Incas would trade economics, let's see. They accept divine right for it (same amount of beakers)
that's nice of them, so select a new tech, corporation for more trade routes and the wall street
but that's 3 techs away (the tech tree is really unclear about this)
decide to use our Great Person for nationalism

Madrid uses now more prophets again since we got some lumbermill and Minaret is still in 9

IT Tokugawa demands astronomy, well, no way I will give this to him

5. 1625AD
nothing much is happening besides building lumbermills

IT nationalism comes in. constitution next

6. 1630AD
another missionary reaches Bejing and converts it

7. 1635AD
nothing of interest, but at least English GA ends

IT Victoria demands that we cancel deals with Incans, no thanks

8. 1640AD
Japanese GA ends, the 3 lumbersmills are just enough to shave off another turn on Minaret
4 turns to go

9. 1645AD
Nanjing is shows the right paths of judaism
Madrid grows to pop 14 and we go back to 3 prophets
Minaret in 3

10. 375BC
Toledo is back on track fighting off unhealthiness getting a grocery
starts a jewish temple (Minaret will increase income)

Cyrus starts a GA now, nobody has the Minaret yet, we need 2 more turns
I really hope we can bag this

One missionary is able to reach the last Chinese city of Xian next turn
another one is going for Cyrus

Constitution due in 3 (we are able to run 100% science almost all the time)
 
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