LotR20 Wild War

I'm around, but going to be gone from tomorrow until the 3rd, so will have to skip next time if it gets back to me before then.

0) 1150AD - Paris is unhappy, turn on avoid growth. Lyons is very unhappy, gets put on starvation to boost production.

IT: Lyons: galley -> horse archer.

1) 1160AD - in the south, we have two Japanese horse archers, one Egyption horse archer, a Roman galley, and a huge stack of miscellaneous Greek and Persian units. Spearman attacks Japanese horse archer. Spearman then promotes twice (Cover, Combat II), bringing him back to 3.2/4 strength. Swordsman attacks and kills second Japanese horse archer (which is probably a mistake, since that moves him to the target square and leaves him undefended and out in the open. Ooops). Our other troops in the area fortify and wait.

Our new galley parks on the fish. Workers start a fort on the hill.

Up north, a pair of Persian galleys are spotted near Rheims. Our axeman from the northwest corner square head in the direction of Rheims to help defend.

IT: Persian and Greek forces attack our troops in the south. As expected, we lose our exposed swordsman. We kill a Persian spearman, a Greek phalanx, a Greek swordsman, and a Greek horse archer for the loss of two spearman (one on the hill, one in Chartres).

Paris: axeman -> archer.

Tours: forge -> spearman.

2) 1170AD

IT: A Greek horse archer attacks Chartres and is killed by our spearman. Egyptian forces pillage our pasture.

3) 1180AD

IT: we lose control of the southern hill. Foreign troops continue to pillage, not a lot we can do about it.

Paris: archer -> spearman.

Lyons: horse archer -> archer.

4) 1190AD Chartres is surrounded by foreign troops, abandons its library and starts building walls.

c10.jpg


IT: our galley outside Paris is attacked by two Persian galleys, defeats one and dies to the other.

Chartres is attacked, kills four greek horse archers, and loses two of its three defenders.

Orleans: spearman -> archer.

Rheims: galley -> archer.

5) 1200AD Chartres whips walls for the cost of two population (I figure its a lost cause anyway).

IT: Chartres destroyed by Egyptians. We lose a galley and the workers at Rheims.

6) 1210AD Start building walls in Tours.

IT: A Greek archer and catapult attack Rheims, archer is killed.

Our axeman parked in a forest down south kills a Greek swordsman and phalanx before dying to an archer.

7) 1220AD Foreign troops pillage around Tours.

IT: Greek catapult attacks Rheims, dies.

Research: Currency -> Code of Laws.

Paris: spearman -> horse archer.

Lyons: spearman -> spearman.

Rheims: archer -> galley.

8) 1230AD

IT: Egyptian horse archer attacks and kills our horse archer (in forest).

Lyons: spearman -> spearman.

9) 1240AD Tours (which is starving anyway) whips walls.

IT: Orleans: spearman -> walls.

Foreign troops moving north towards Orleans.

10) 1250AD ..

c11.jpg
 

Attachments

Galleys can only cross ocean within one's cultural borders. Otherwise they are restricted to coastal waters.

OK, that's one lesson learned from this game. Thanks. Wish that was documented somewhere (besides this game, I mean).

And, beyond that...this is not looking good. While we could hold the line in the south (at Tours), there was always hope for us, if only marginal. Since that line was broken and the forces are pouring northwards...I think it's only a matter of time before we're wiped off the face of the maze. I'll want to do a post-mortem to see if we can figure out why....

Roster:
Arathorn
Jaffa Tamarin (skip until ~ Jan. 3)
Arizona_Steve -- UP NOW
Greebley -- on deck
Zed-F

Arathorn
 
With hindsight, I should at the beginning of my turn have abandoned Chartres and all points south, and brought all our troops back to defend Tours and the north. Too late now :P
 
Maybe it's not even possible to survive an AW game on Prince+ on a decent-sized map with multiple AIs within easy reach. With ultra-superior tactics you might be able to squeak out a tech lead if the AIs decide to continue building units like crazy, but with so many opponents perhaps it's just too easy to get overwhelmed.
 
(0) 1250AD:
"It's a beautiful sunny day in France. Bunny rabbits are hopping around our lands, birds are singing and there is a wonderful procession of people in brighly colored uniforms, some on horses and elephants, waving pretty flags and spreading flowers wherever they go" - The Iraqi Information Minister, 12/27/2005.

Umm...

Legions of foreign troops have moved deep into our territory. Tours is at risk, but a spearman will complete this turn. Orleans will be under some pressure too.

I go through our cities and switch tiles to maximize commerce. Cottages be damned we need commerce now, and those three-gold coastal tiles are the best bet at the moment. Code of Laws will come in in seven turns if we survive, and then I'll be switching to military techs.

Units in range of Tours include a Greek archer, swordsman and chariot, three Egyption horse archers and a chariot. For our part, Tours contains two spears and an axeman.

Let's see what happens.

IT:
Only one attack. Greek swordsman vs our axeman in Tours. We win. Other troops head North towards Orleans.

Tours - Spearman -> Spearman.

(1) 1260AD:
Some rather intimidating stacks were brought up during the interturn...

LotR20_AD-1300A.jpg


I go ahead and shock-promote the three spearmen inside Tours. If we're going to lose the city, we may as well take down as many enemy troops as we can.
We have a warrior in Orleans who gets a medic promotion. Another warrior gets combat II, then formation, and is upgraded to a spearman. That should take down a few horsies.
Complete a few other promotions in Orleans.

Some battles.
Spearman (Orleans) vs Horse Archer - we win.
Spearman (On hill next to Orleans) Vs Chariot - we win without taking any damage.

Science raised to 60% for a couple of turns.

IT:
The fall of Tours. Our RNG luck is atrocious. Attacker listed first.

Swordsman vs Spear - we lose.
War elephant vs Spear - we lose.
Praetorian vs Spear - we lose.
Praetorian vs Axeman - you guessed it, we lose.

Tours is captured by the Romans. For a city with walls and promotions to give +25% vs melee units, this was pretty bad.

Lyons - Spearman -> Axeman.

(2) 1270AD:
More trouble...

LotR20_AD-1300B.jpg


That's actually a pile of four Greek galleys at the bottom right.

Our new spearman in Lyons isn't going to make any difference to the fate of Rheims. We will lose the city if the "Luck of Tours" (tm) holds out. He heads south to face the horse and jumbo stacks.

More battles.
Spearman vs Horse Archer - we win.
Spearman (Orleans) vs Horse Archer - we win.
Spearman (Orleans) vs Chariot - we win.
Axeman (Orleans) vs Chariot - we win, and the axeman retreats back into Orleans. No exposed troops, and nothing will get pillaged at Orleans.

No sign of any other troops. Hit enter and hope for Rheims...

IT:
We keep Rheims. Attacker listed first.

Jumbo vs Axeman - we lose.
Horse Archer vs Axeman - we win.
Horse Archer vs Archer - we win.

A third horse archer pillages a hamlet. A jumbo is also landed next to Rheims.

Rheims - Galley -> Spearman.

(3) 1280AD:
I leave our new galley in port, as Alexander has three of his sitting outside.
A spearman is whipped in Rheims at the cost of two population.

Talk about open borders. This is insane. Caesar even has open borders with Japan. How often does that happen?

LotR20_AD-1300C.jpg


I guess the three dots at the end indicates that there are an unspecified number of unlisted troops there. Scary.
Our spearman takes out a Greek archer sitting on a hamlet. There are no troops left in our territory.
The two units in Rheims are promotable, and I promote the axeman with combat II and formation. The archer gets city garrison I and II.

IT:
Spearman completes at Rheims and defends successfully vs the Japanese jumbo.
Our pasture is pillaged by the Japanese horse archer.

Paris - Horse Archer -> Marketplace
Rheims - Spearman -> Spearman.

(4) 1290AD:
With no other troops around Rheims, I send our formation axeman out to kill the Japanese horse archer. Odds are 70%, and we win.
Our galley will do more on defence than on attack. I fortify it outside Rheims where it'll hopefully take out a foreign ship or two before sinking.
Promote our victorious spearman at Rheims up to formation via combat II.

Foreign troops are on the move again...

LotR20_AD-1300D.jpg


I place two spears on each of our forward hamlets to see if they will take them on.

IT:
Foreign troops completely bypass our spears. Our galley sinks a Persian galley before being sunk by a second one.

LotR20_AD-1300E.jpg


Feudalism selected as our next research target. A few longbows would be useful right now.

Rheims - Spearman -> Walls.

(5) 1300AD:
Three Greek horse archers next to Orleans are speared at no cost to us. Our spearmen retreat to the city.

There's another two waves heading our way...

LotR20_AD-1300F.jpg


These are some of the most time-consuming turns I've played and written up in a succession game. I'm going to stop after five turns and do the rest tomorrow evening. No sense in rushing this.
 
Lurker's comment:

Ouch, you sure you didn't set this one to immortal by accident? :lol: I'm thinking you should try the next one on a map with at least 3 continents so you aren't fighting 5 AI's so early in the game.
 
hope you don't mind my lurking comments:

You people are very brave to fight this out :goodjob:

I have played a few maze maps on AW myself. The problem here is that those galleys will eventually be able to land troops on your land once their borders expand into the sea. This makes the maze a very tricky business as you need to more or less defend a whole stretch of land which can be very tough.
I was successful when the AI send the major streams via land and I was able to build a fort on hill and absorbed huge amounts of AI units while getting a lot of promotions (one unit was at exp 70). Meanwhile I was building up my cities and then able to strike back with a huge stack myself slowly grinding down the enemy.

Maybe someone could mod the game so naval passages are impossible via the ocean.
 
Took a quick break, then decided to continue.

IT:
No attacks this turn. A hamlet next to Orleans is pillaged though.

(6) 1310AD:
Walls can be rushed at Orleans at a cost of one population. I do it. All available units are moved into Orleans to protect the city.
I also rush the market at Paris for four population. Paris is suffering greatly from unhappiness and poor health (-4 at the last count).
Big stack outside Orleans. We need all the defence we can get.

LotR20_AD-1350A.jpg


IT:
Mrs_Arizona_Steve interrupts me and I don't see who kills what around Orleans.

Paris - Marketplace -> Spearman.
Orleans - Walls -> Worker.
Lyons - Axeman -> Marketplace.

(7) 1320AD:
I recheck Orleans, and we have lost an axeman (to a praetorian I think). I can say for certain that someone lost a jumbo. It looks like the foreign war parties are content to pillage instead of taking cities, which is more than a pain than anything else.
We are getting overrun...

LotR20_AD-1350B.jpg


There is little I can do except try to defend Orleans.

IT:
It's a bloodbath around Orleans. I lose count after the seventh or eighth attack. We lose one spear and one horse archer, both to praetorians. They lose praetorians, horse archers, immortals, and at least one longbow. My guess is around ten units lost by the enemy.

Paris - Spearman -> Walls.

(8) 1330AD:
There is little I can do. The enemy is bringing in mixed stacks of units. Before I could use spearmen to pick off the horse archer and chariot groups, but these are mixed in with axemen and praetorians now.
There are two stacks next to Orleans containing five units each.

IT:
Orleans is toast. Our defenders are all injured. We lose two more spears to praetorians. Nearly all tiles around Orleans are pillaged.

(9) 1340AD:
More units were brought up during the interturn. With a stack of eleven units outside Orleans, it is surely gone this turn.

LotR20_AD-1350C.jpg


IT:
A picture says a thousand words.

LotR20_AD-1350D.jpg


(10) 1350AD:
Troops south of Paris are pulled back towards that city.

I wonder if Soren is watching his AI in action here...

Well, our city maintenance costs aren't as high now - 1350AD
 
There's just a few of them, aren't they? :eek:

Looks like my turn was the height of the French empire, and that it won't come around to me again... :cry:

Well there's always next time! :ar15:
 
Roster:
Arathorn
Jaffa Tamarin (skip until ~ Jan. 3)
Arizona_Steve
Greebley -- UP NOW
Zed-F -- on deck (maybe)

Probably won't too long for the overrun to complete.

To have a shot, we needed to have the best civilization early. We didn't. I didn't like our starting surroundings much, and I also don't think we used them the best either. But we were 7th in demographics categories way early and that doesn't bode well in games in general. That's doubly true for an always war game. We need equivalent tech and better production or something.

Arathorn
 
I agree with your analysis. For whatever reason we were too far behind. I think the AI eventually saw us as "easy meat" and went for the kill.

In any case, I got it.

If we try maze again, maybe we should try maze size of 4 with the trait that adds +2 culture per city per turn. That way we can own 1/2 the ocean since our cities will expand to radius 2 quickly. We can then prevent the AI from crossing the ocean. It also gives us a slightly larger strip of land to settle on.
 
If I could suggest trying Ice Age with narrow continents next - you'll have better production and a more compact empire than mazes, but still have your choice of defendable chokepoints. Plus it's easier to control your coastline.
 
Guys, in the unlikely event that we survive to my turn, I'm going to have to take a skip (or a concede?) as I will be out of town for the next couple days.
 
Lurker's comment: This feels like Civ3 AW kekeke...

5 on 1 isn't good odds, but you all made a valiant effort to survive. :thumbsup:
 
Arathorn said:
OK, that's one lesson learned from this game. Thanks. Wish that was documented somewhere (besides this game, I mean).

I mentioned it very prominently in my interview with Apolyton.

I assume it's in the manual, though I don't know that for sure.


- Sirian
 
This game is cannot be won. We lost Paris, costing them about 1/2 the units in the area. We are down to 2 towns size 9 and 2. The AI is pillaging everything and there isn't a thing we can do about it except sit in the town and wait for them to take us out. If we attack out we will simply lose sooner.

We also gained a new enemy - montezuma.

Here is a picture.
LotR20_AD1450.jpg


I will attach the save if anyone wants to check things out or play it out to the conquest loss.
 
Yeah, probably no point in really continuing this. I generally like to play losses out to the end, just for the formality of it. Sometimes things can be learned, but it's hard to see what else we can learn from this game. Still....

I'll be starting another AW game, with slots reserved for everybody in this game, when I get some more time. I'll probably also play this out, unless Zed-F wants to, just for the formality of it. But I don't have time for the next couple days. Not like I'd pay much attention to the rest of this game, but it might take a bit of time. Anybody who wants to play it out, feel free. As many turns as you like/it takes. I just want to get it done -- at least it's not a space/time loss.

What kind of parameters do we want for the next game? I intend to reject any strategy that depends on a specific unit or civilization, so no Persian Immortal suppression. I want "general" AW.

Arathorn
 
Arathorn said:
I intend to reject any strategy that depends on a specific unit or civilization, so no Persian Immortal suppression. I want "general" AW.

While not wanting to take what many would figure to be the "best" Civ/UU/Traits for a given map is understandable, I'm not sure there is such a thing as "general" AW. Every Civ is going to have strengths and weaknesses, and different paths and weightings in the opening.

Why not simply go with Random civ and play the hand you are dealt? It won't be general, but it's closer than anything else would be.


- Sirian
 
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