• Civilization 7 has been announced. For more info please check the forum here .

LotR7 -- Passive Culturalists

Summary

One flip, ToE, all of China's cash, and electronics monopoly. 100k can be achieved in the 20th century with no further improvements.

Early

Mao re-ups peace--ending our 50gpt payment. More workers trained, a prebuild started for Hoover's. Temples and other culture buildings rushed as cash is available. Slow down SciMeth research--our prebuild needs eight more turns to get to 600 shields. Vikings declare war on the English. 980 AD 16521 culture @ 295/turn. This means we can make 100k culture around 2000 AD, with no further improvements. Our problems will be staying alive, avoiding AI launch, and doubling next nearest (HARD!!)

Middle

First flip in 990AD! [dance]

Like LK45, China is going to be our cultural (and likely spacerace) problem. They have no real competition on their landmass. Military railnet completed. Workers move back to FP core for jungle clearing. America and Rome MPP. New Akkad founded south of New Ninevah. Wines deal with England expires--I do not renew. No need for lux yet.

Late

SciMeth comes in @ monopoly. Prebuild switched to ToE, due in 1. SciMeth to China for wm, spices and 3800g. SciMeth to Viks for horses, ivory, 75g and 5gpt. SciMeth to Rome for wm and 86gpt. Massive cultural spending spree. Caesar renews the peace deal. ToE completes, taking the usual AT and Electronics. Cash rush a coal plant in Ur, and MM to help reduce the turns to Hoover. AT to China for Sanitation and 7600 of his 7632g. AT to Vikings for RepParts, 45gpt (all), wm, and 83g (all). AT and 150g to Rome for Nationalism. China has a monopoly on refining, us with electronics, and China, viks and rome all have communism. New Uruk founded on spices in former Mongolia. Hoover is due in 13 turns. The US build can be used for Wall St. when the requisite stock exchanges complete.

We have rubber and 18 turns of horses. I only rushed culture in the new cities--those in the core are still available to rush, since most culture builds have at least one turn's worth of shields. We are at 18,810 culture and +369cpt (about 75-80cpt better than at the start). At this rate, we reach 100k in 1951 (assuming no more doubling or building). There is lots more culture to build. Fast workers should help speed the productivitiy of the second core. We can do unit shuffling to get our troops up to guerillas, since most of our cutouts are on that upgrade path. I did build at least two muskets before we got repparts. We will see some serious cathedral/university culture doubling in the 1400-1600AD timeframe. We are behind in culture to the Vikings (barely) and China--and China leads the histograph and powergraph. Vikings and Rome are warring with England.

I think we might have a shot at this--we need to get our military up to support a dogpile on china and some serious pillaging.

Good luck to you, Arathorn

Can it be done?
 
Got it....

Will proceed on culture path, get some infantry built, and do other necessary things.

One of my goals will be to set up a settler factory or two....we're gonna need/want to poach a bunch more city sites -- probably right in the middle of the Chinese core and, probably, in Rome's core, too.

Arathorn
 
Nice BamBam, our first flip - may we see many more.

Once we get enough infantry/guerillas we really need to get some more war happening. The window before tanks is now.
 
Whoops--sorry 'bout that one. Sleep deprivation does take its toll--thankfully, the new little one of 2 months is approaching the age where she might (gasp) sleep through the night.
 
Well...shoot...I left my notes at home, so I'm reconstructing from memory....

Early: Rushed a bunch of culture and other buildings. Got a few infantry in place.

Middle: Saw Batshireet flip to us! Woo-hoo! Rushed more stuff. Sold Electronics around, because it was being researched and I think our pre-build is far enough along. Net around 400 gpt, 1000 gold, Communism, and Espionage for it. Also, a coalition of America, Rome, and Scandinavia forms against China. I cheer them on.

Late: America destroyed. Poaching settlers built. RoP with China formed (paying 3 gpt) to get to good spots. Can poach luxuries, even. Do so. More settlers need on what is now almost exclusively China island.

Notes:
- Neither Rome nor Scandinavia has Coal. This means China is the ONLY player left, really, besides us. Yes, either Rome or Scandinavia could still probably sneeze us into oblivion, but China's culture is the main worry.

- I think I *finally* got all the squares we were working in our first-ring cities around our capital improved. Heck, our capital was even working unimproved squares. What nonsense is that??? That's probably cost us a few thousand gold over the years, and that's not chump change. Clearing jungle is good and important and all, but focus on the most important stuff first, please, OK?

- Sometime after Hoover completes, we might want to think about switching to Communism. I've been building courthouses nearly everywhere in anticipation of this. We're gonna need a HUGE military to work over China and Communism will support that best. Some of our distant colonies will become productive, too. I would probably wait until our huge incoming gpt payments are done, though, as cash-rushing is still awfully important. Team thoughts? Shields or gold?

- I built one explorer and a few infantry. We'll need bunches more of both. Plus, pretty much all our cities on China's mainland should get walls and barracks pretty soon.

- Boy, I hope Rome and Scandinavia stay at war w/China long enough to knock Mao out of Democracy.

- China's up at least two techs on the rest of the world. We're at parity with Scandinavia and Rome, with England trailing the pack fairly substantially.

Save file http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/LotR7-1150ad.zip

Gothmog -- UP NOW
Skyfish -- ON DECK (order swapped for this turn, since Sky is back tomorrow)
Bam-Bam -- in the hole

We're up over 450 cpt and approaching 30k culture.

Arathorn
 
Hey, you both got flips - I want one too! If I don't I am considering legal action against the RNG!

The capital was stuck at like size 9 during my turns working all improved squares. I got it growing again on my last turns (IIRC).

Great that the war came of its own accord. Gives us time to build defense before having to push it along on our own.

As far as Communism, I need to look things over but I don't think the time has come yet.

Got it.
 
If most of your cities have hospitals, why not monarchy instead of communism? Aren't you going to want to rush infra in captured cities?
 
Very, very few of our cities have hospitals.

Our core is fine, too...it's the remote cities on the other continent that still need a bunch of cultural buildings and will be directly on the warfront that I want to protect/build up.

Communism has been un-nerfed. Ever since seeing it in LotR5, I've been looking at wars of trying it out more. T-hawk's done some analysis that shows superior total shield production all the way out to 4*OCN, with minimal corruption-fighting buildings. I can like that. It was marvelously effective in LotR8b, when I was using it. So many reasonably productive cities. Very different from what it used to be.

And, very soon, we won't care about any more tech advances. Really, we want to slow teching down AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE and build up a mega-military.

Captured cities isn't an issue. We're passive...we can't attack cities. Freshly-built poach cities? Yeah, they might well want some infra, but they might also want to grow up someday.

In reality, I think our culture is on a good pace. Continuing to improve it by poaching cities and building up our infra will help, but we have a much greater need of slowing down China (especially) than we do of helping ourselves at this point.

No, we are not ready for Communism YET, but in ~15 turns, we may well be. Most of our big cash deals will have run out by then and we won't be running huge cash surpluses. Shields will become the most important item.

Pros for Communism:
- Productive towns near China
- Veteran spies (how much benefit? Dunno.)
- No ww and huge unit support

Pros for Monarchy:
- Productive core but it'll be almost as productive as commies with our set-up
- No ww
- Ability to cash-rush

Pros for Democracy:
- Income
- Fast workers

It's hard for me to say which is best in the mid-term. Right now, we're definitely going to want to stay a democracy. We have mega-income (~780 gpt), tiny cities needing a bunch of cash-rushing, and minimal military.

In 15 turns, we'll have lost ~500 gpt income from the other civs, will hopefully have a larger military, and will have less need of cash-rushing. Plus, if we try propoganda with our spies, having vets almost assuredly won't hurt....

One thing to remember, we do have a RoP with China for the next 17 turns or so. But our cities there will need walls, barracks, and a buncha infantry/artillery, too.

Still very dicey....
Arathorn
 
T-hawk's done some analysis that shows superior total shield production all the way out to 4*OCN, with minimal corruption-fighting buildings.

Actually, Communism starts to fizzle out (40% corruption everywhere and rising fast) around 2.5*OCN without the corruption-fighting buildings, about the same as the palace-centric governments manage with separate Palace and FP rings. With courthouses and police stations, though, Communism can go up to 4*OCN before corruption starts to reach the 40% neighborhood. The calculator is here, if you want to play with it at work:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/CorrCalc.zip

All my analysis was only in theory, with the calculator; I've yet to ever use Communism besides Epic 15.

Here, I'd suggest staying in Democracy as long as possible, until you get to mechs to fight your "passive" wars (and build your research labs!) After that, since you don't care about income any more, Communism will probably serve quite well - almost certainly better shield production than Monarchy.
 
Hey guys am back !
Wow ! looks like the game went real fast...lemme read what I missed but I should be able to take it whenever my turn is up :D
 
OK, Skyfish. Glad you're back. Here's the situation, player-turn-wise.

Gothmog -- playing
Skyfish -- on deck
Bam-Bam -- in the hole
Arathorn -- resting/waiting/watching

Do read and see what we've been up to, though.

Arathorn
 
Hey guys... welcome back Skyfish.

Sorry but I haven't been able to play yet. I looked it over and played a turn on Wednesday night, but wasn't able to play last night due to circumstances beyond my control (involving an illness that my wife and two children are battling).

I'll try my best to play and post tonight.
 
Take care of the family first, Gothmog. Those little balrogs are important. And, if you need a skip or to trade back with Sky, just say the word and we'll cover for you.

Civ3 is meant to be a way to reduce stress, not cause it! Or, at least, that's my goal for SGs.

Arathorn
 
OK, I got to play and let me assure you playing does reduce my stress, a definite release. Funny that we are all the fathers of young children in this game. I know Sky, BamBam, and myself all have kids under 1 yr old - and Arathorn has a couple toddler/kids too.

Preturn - China is very large. MM bab to grow, increase growth in a couple other places.

(IT) Rome and China -> peace, ship. Notice that Ellipi is on wealth? We could really use more infantry.

Early - New Kish founded, New Nippur founded, China asks for MA vs. Vikings and I decline, IA completes (was that a WS prebuild?), New Shuruppak founded, Hoover completes.

Middle - Rush a bunch of culture, infrastructure and land getting better and better. Rome and England -> peace, Rome moves a troop into our territory so I shift defences up there. Vikings and China make peace, ship.

Late - Lose Horses, ivory, and spices. I trade the Viks Insence + 20 gpt for Ivory. Defences in China starting to come online. I notice an unclaimed spot and found New Zariqum. Wall Street completes.

We've got some dedicated two turn Infantry cities, and Bab is pumping out explorers every turn. We should also build Arti. The world is at peace atm and that is bad for us, we need to get some war going again soon. We're pretty close to being ready... very close. China has Steel and Refining, and Rome and Vikings only Refining. I didn't do a two fer, we may want to steal Steel from China as soon as we can handle a war declaration.

Take it Skyfish!!!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/HammerOnThem_1250AD.zip
 
OK, I got to play and let me assure you playing does reduce my stress, a definite release. Funny that we are all the fathers of young children in this game. I know Sky, BamBam, and myself all have kids under 1 yr old - and Arathorn has a couple toddler/kids too.

Preturn - China is very large. MM bab to grow, increase growth in a couple other places.

(IT) Rome and China -> peace, ship. Notice that Ellipi is on wealth? We could really use more infantry.

Early - New Kish founded, New Nippur founded, China asks for MA vs. Vikings and I decline, IA completes (was that a WS prebuild?), New Shuruppak founded, Hoover completes.

Middle - Rush a bunch of culture, infrastructure and land getting better and better. Rome and England -> peace, Rome moves a troop into our territory so I shift defences up there. Vikings and China make peace, ship.

Late - Lose Horses, ivory, and spices. I trade the Viks Insence + 20 gpt for Ivory. Defences in China starting to come online. I notice an unclaimed spot and found New Zariqum. Wall Street completes.

We've got some dedicated two turn Infantry cities, and Bab is pumping out explorers every turn. We should also build Arti. The world is at peace atm and that is bad for us, we need to get some war going again soon. We're pretty close to being ready... very close. China has Steel and Refining, and Rome and Vikings only Refining. I didn't do a two fer, we may want to steal Steel from China as soon as we can handle a war declaration and use it to help bring in Rome and the Vikings.

Take it Skyfish!!!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/HammerOnThem_1250AD.zip
 
Skyfish -- UP NOW (late to claim...give him about 12 hours from this post)
Bam-Bam -- ON DECK
Arathorn
Skyfish
Gothmog
Bam-Bam
Skyfish
Gothmog
.
.
.

just to let everybody know what the planned-for next set of turns will be.

Slowing China, via war or even just trade embargos, is starting to take priority, even over claiming more cities.

Arathorn
 
1250 : Look around, rush a few buildings but not much, but hey wait a sec: where's our huge jungle ? :lol:

All in all it looks real amazing we made great progress and for the first time in the game I have a glimmer of hope of winning ;)

hit enter

and guess what ?



We instantly lose 12 cities all on the Chinese continent. :suicide:

Swich to Survival Mode.


1255 : First, we hit step 1 war weariness in Democracy and its ugly : lux tax need to go to 30% and loads
of clowns are hired (not in our core cities though). We still make 600gpt, nice :)
After that I go to Diplo and buy everyone in vs the Chinese at least it will help us out.
Vikings will take just Rubber for Alliance vs China.
Rome will take WM and 30gpt.
England will take just Salpeter :eek: they are not going to last long :sad:
I use our big treasure to rush buildings in important cities in order to produce Infantry ASAP.
Arties are produced out of mid to small cities.

1260 : no Chinese attack, however WW steps up and a few cities go to riot.
Lux tax needs to go to 40%. Starting to consider going to Republic...lets see if it stabilizes next round...
We have 6 cities that make more than 40spt (arti every 2 rounds) then we have 5 cities at 28spt or plus.
Not too bad, first we need some Inf and then loads of arties and finally some cavs.

1265 : Major sea battles amongst the AIs. War weariness stabilizes.
1270 : No Chineses offensive
1275 : More units are built however we do not even have one Infantry per city yet :(
We could use conscription up to a point but we could do that once we have an ongoing offensive.

In a fraternal move of team spirit, I now hand-over to Bam-Bam to make sure we all "feel the pain" :D

Moreover a bit of debate would be necessary as to what we should do next :
- we lost all (but only) our cities on Chinese continent.
- All other AIs are at war with them and allied with us.
- there is no sign of a chinese sea invasion, or even sea bombardments.
- We have almost doubled our military in the past 5 turns.
- Very few culture buildings remain to be built (a couple of collisseums in totally corrupt cities?)
- Without battle in the last 3 to 4 turns, War Weariness is holding well at 40% lux tax (should we revolt?)
- We have no navy.
My idea was to do build more Infantries and Artis until we can build a sea invasion force to establish a beachhead on the Chinese continent in order to take our passive war to them. Dont see how we could do this before at least 10 turns though :crazyeye:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/HammerOnThem_of_the_Babylonians,_1275_AD.zip
 
Top Bottom