Making the Cavalary Tech-Path more interesting
- Thread starter Frozen-Vomit
- Start date
Gamestation
Introducing Servo
- Joined
- May 24, 2006
- Messages
- 551
I thought there would be more WW from killing in your opponent's borders. Killing in their borders makes you the aggressor.
loki1232
Loki
Only nowadays. In FfH killing enemies in their borders makes you the uber crusader and reduces war weariness.Gamestation said:
Chandrasekhar
Determined
loki1232 said:
Well said, very well said.
thealien_83
King
Gamestation said:
I have to agree with the voices saying "Hardly". The citizens of most medieval'esque kingdoms are probably barely even aware of what's going on "in the grand scale", and as such they are likely to be relatively happy so long as they don't have enemy armies marching around in their homes and battles being fought on their wheatfields and whatnot.
So if you are conducting an aggressive war then they don't have to suffer for it (in fact might indeed be happy you're showing those heathens/heretics/dirty foreigners/pointy eared nonces/greedy stunties/creepy vampires/etc a thing or two, righteous as you are!) and would probably not care too much. Warfare is a fact of life, only need to complain about it when it affects you negatively, right?
Granted, they'd probably be unhappy about levies being raised and such, and we can assume that the longer a war goes on the more manpower is required for reinforcements and such, and thus, war weariness.
I dunno. Rambling randomly. I don't even know exactly what affects war weariness, just that it pops up and bothers me now and then.
Cheers!
QES
Court Jester
thealien_83 said:I have to agree with the voices saying "Hardly". The citizens of most medieval'esque kingdoms are probably barely even aware of what's going on "in the grand scale", and as such they are likely to be relatively happy so long as they don't have enemy armies marching around in their homes and battles being fought on their wheatfields and whatnot.
So if you are conducting an aggressive war then they don't have to suffer for it (in fact might indeed be happy you're showing those heathens/heretics/dirty foreigners/pointy eared nonces/greedy stunties/creepy vampires/etc a thing or two, righteous as you are!) and would probably not care too much. Warfare is a fact of life, only need to complain about it when it affects you negatively, right?
Granted, they'd probably be unhappy about levies being raised and such, and we can assume that the longer a war goes on the more manpower is required for reinforcements and such, and thus, war weariness.
I dunno. Rambling randomly. I don't even know exactly what affects war weariness, just that it pops up and bothers me now and then.
Cheers!
Maybe war weariness should be as it is now, plus weariness for cities with units in their radii? Then its specific cities getting upset for very viceral reasons? Length of war means money, this is right, and so excess taxes, etc, make people pissed, i get that.
But war weariness still does not force players to fight battles in the field, not unless the war weariness approched levels that would make the city close to rioting (and switching sides anyway) or in effect functioning equally as a lost city. This is hard becuase a lost city ALSO means another city for the enemy, as well as a fortified position.
Cities need to be LESS defenseable then terrain PERIOD in order to effect this outcome. Now, if you think about it, having cities be ALL AROUND less defenseable would make it equally easy to "retake" if it did get "Taken". So city defense as a whole becomes less important. I also think that city defence should EBB AND FLOW throughout the game. IN RL ancient eras, city defense was paramount. THen other tactics were developed, where armed combat in fields of battle was more important, then it again returned to the city, then fields, then city, ad infanitum. Each technological period saw a switch generally from one to the other. We live now, in a period where battles are not going to be fought in cities (Non-guerilla conflicts here). Battles will be fought with massive armies (when nukes arnt employed) on large battle fields. THe only "street combat" to occur is occupation forces, and insurgencies and the like. Now, 150 years ago, this wasnt true, seiges were common, the civil war is a perfect example. During WWII it depended on the terrain, towns were more of a location for staging areas, and front lines occasionally went THROUGH them, but never wholey were "right on the front steps" of cities. Even Bastgone's line of defence was OUTSIDE of the city, (the radius perhaps, but not the city itself - which still got the crap bombed out of it because of its staging importance and the attempt to subjugate its surrender).
If technology made cities more and less defenseable over time, i think we would see an amalgum of tactics. There would be points where technology and tactics would demand defending at the point of the city, and other times in which it was more important to fight the enemy in the field. I think many buildings should add negative modifiers (penalties) to city defence, as the city gets bloated and less able to defend itself properly. Over time, when things get "too bad" a building will come along to mitigate those modifiers and restore the city to fortification status. Most city's werent forts, remember, but a few had to be both. Throughout history.
-Qes
Gamestation
Introducing Servo
- Joined
- May 24, 2006
- Messages
- 551
My comment before on ww was based on the ww study in this thread: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=181512
It is the way it works in vanilla civ. I don't know if this was altered in FFH2 but in vanilla ww increases more when fighting in the enemies territory.
It is the way it works in vanilla civ. I don't know if this was altered in FFH2 but in vanilla ww increases more when fighting in the enemies territory.
QES
Court Jester
jafink said:
They sound that way, sure, but dont let em fool ya, sometimes they sneak in nonsensory in behind your back.
-Qes
QES
Court Jester
jafink said:
I joined under a different name back in february, but forgot it, then didnt touch these forums for months, came back and had to "make up for lost time" or thats the excuse I'm making. Another theory is that im a crazy person posing as an intrepid gamer. Still other's believe I to be some sort of mythological creature born of the web, sent by god to punish fans of popular software for their hubris.
I think Kael may suspect I'm the flash of movement he sees in the bushes outside his house, but thats not actually me, thats woodelf.
Like UFO's theorys of me will circulate, but nothing will actually be confirmed or denied.
-Qes
vorshlumpf
Emperor
I like the idea of unhappiness caused by enemy forces within your borders - it is something I asked for not too long ago. I also like the idea of unhappiness accumulating from pillaged towns. To me, this just makes sense.
Of course, certain civics may affect this unhappiness, positively or negatively (e.g., Sacrifice the Weak may negate the effect entirely).
- Niilo
P.S.: I had also suggested that those following Fellowship of Leaves would suffer from slightly more unhappiness, as their leader is effectively allowing heathens to tromp on their precious dandylions.
Of course, certain civics may affect this unhappiness, positively or negatively (e.g., Sacrifice the Weak may negate the effect entirely).
- Niilo
P.S.: I had also suggested that those following Fellowship of Leaves would suffer from slightly more unhappiness, as their leader is effectively allowing heathens to tromp on their precious dandylions.
vorshlumpf
Emperor
Another idea for increasing the incentive to come out of your defensive cities is to give negative healing promotions to units within a city that has been cut out of the trade network, a la your old fashioned seige. This neg. healing would increase over time, and eventually overtake the healing benefits of being within the city. At that point, it would be a choice between surrender or riding out for a heroic last stand (I believe the norm in medieval times was to simply surrender).
- Niilo
- Niilo
Chandrasekhar
Determined
Yeah, offer the city for peace. But cutting off a city completely like that wouldn't be easy, 'cause the defenders could pick off the spread forces.
vorshlumpf
Emperor
I'm not a historian, but seiges weren't that easy, were they. That's why sorties were a valid counter tactic.
However, my suggestion is pretty much moot, anyway. Nowadays I rarely wait for my slow-ass catapults to arrive and just take care of the city defenders with spells and summoned creatures. It's unlikely I'd wait around long enough to carefully cut the city off and wait for attrition to take its toll (the game does have year-long turns, after all - seiges would typically fail if they didn't succeed by the first signs of winter).
- Niilo
However, my suggestion is pretty much moot, anyway. Nowadays I rarely wait for my slow-ass catapults to arrive and just take care of the city defenders with spells and summoned creatures. It's unlikely I'd wait around long enough to carefully cut the city off and wait for attrition to take its toll (the game does have year-long turns, after all - seiges would typically fail if they didn't succeed by the first signs of winter).
- Niilo
Chandrasekhar
Determined
Heh, let's not even get started with turn-parallels here. I think it's possible to circle the world in a ship in less than 30 years, too.
Nikis-Knight
Deity
I don't know if the turn counter is sophisticated enough for this, but I'd love for the turn length to be further reduced down to seasons, aka, start in Spring, year 1, proceed to summer year 1, autumn yr 1, winter yr 1, spring year 2, etc. It'd reconcile the game speed a bit better I think--instead of living 400 years, heros would be around 100 or so (normal speed). Senile old codgers, perhaps, but not quite the mummies they'd be now, short of some supernatural or lineage explanation.Chandrasekhar said:
Chandrasekhar
Determined
I wouldn't mind seeing it like that. Might be nice to scale it by game speed, too. So quick is still year by year, but normal is monthly, epic is weekly, something like that. Not even close to being necessary, though.
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