Making the jump from Emperor to Immortal

[Doctor Doom]

I've won every game I've finished on Emperor and I want to get up to deity one day. The only problem is my turn times are pretty bad. The quickest win time I've gotten on Emperor is a turn 335 SV but I realized my problem I bulbed every single GS and didn't plant any of them. So any tips for a player trying to move up a level? Sorry for all the posts, I'm on a business trip so I have a lot of time on my hands!

 

[Erelich]

While I'm certainly no expert (I play on emperor too, though I'm also thinking of moving up soon), I think the key to getting fast wins is to micromanage your cities as much as possible. I just completed my first game where I really attempted to micromanage all my citizens and I beat my previous record for the same victory type by almost 80 turns.

You can get away with letting the AI manage your cities on emperor, but I think that if you want to beat the game at immortal+ micromanagement becomes a necessity.

 

[Doctor Doom]

Yeah I try as hard as I can to micro manage my cities and take advange of "the production trick" I just don't know what spots to put my GS plants...

 

[CivilizedPlayer]

Yeah I try as hard as I can to micro manage my cities and take advange of "the production trick" I just don't know what spots to put my GS plants...

As it happens I'm attempting to step it up a bit too... what exactly is "the production trick"? The technique for settler-building where you take advantage of the fact that your cities can't starve?

 

[Doctor Doom]

As it happens I'm attempting to step it up a bit too... what exactly is "the production trick"? The technique for settler-building where you take advantage of the fact that your cities can't starve?

Oh jeez this is gonna be hard to explain...

so basically the "production trick" is a little exploit used very early in the game to get a tiny bit more production on building or units.

when your city is 1 turn from growing you lock the tiles you're working (food)

put the city on production focus

when the citizen is born it will automatically go to the tile with the most production (most likely a hill)

which will add the hammers of that tile to what your city is building

after that you can move the citizen off the tile but still keep the extra 3 or so hammers from when it was born

at most it will shave off a turn but hey that's 1 less turn you don't have a granary.

I hope that made sense I'm sure there's a Youtube video on it or someone that can explain it better than me

 

[spoko22]

I think he means settling always production focus and assigning food tiles manually. This way, in turn your city grows, you get hammers/gold/culture/science/faith from the tile that new citizen will be assigned to. This is because game proceeds growth first and every other profit your city can have from the tiles later so if you had food focus, you would get nothing and this way you have a little profit. This thing is crucial and in fact the difference it makes is not as small as it may seem.

To OP:
I had exaxctly the same issue some time ago, but using micromanagement, manual specialists assignment (always have science slots filled in all your cities, secularism is your friend), not bothering much about wonders brought me to victory. I played as Spain, large map, standard pace, all VC enabled, had cool start with Kilimanjaro (or whatever the original name is, anyway it gave me +6 food, +4 culture) near my second city. I wasn't able to be first all the time (I have been for a while though) and in moment of victory I was 4th out of 10 players. I won diplomatically by generating huge amount of gold (not so huge when compared to AI) and buying CSs.

Academies are worth planting until you have researching labs (or whatever the original name was) - you can estimate yourself whether it is worth it bulb a tech or plant an academy. If bulbing would give you 700 beakers - make an academy, it would pay off in about 70-85 turns - and these calculations doesn't even include university, NC but these would speed it up even more. If bulbing gives about 3-4k beakers it may be worth doing it.

Anyway: keys to victory on immortal for me were - micromanaging -> focusing growth, focus on science.

 

[phillipwyllie]

Using the mechanics of science overflow(not using the exploit) it seems imperative you meet every civ asap as techs will be cheaper(assuming most civs you've met already know that tech). If you are the one to meet everyone first you should be able to have scholars in residence passed.

City location is much more important on immortal+. I'd watch a few deity videos to see how the pros do it.

 

[BornSlippy]

Emperor-immortal switch is pretty brutal. I'm struggling with it myself. I find the hardest thing is to balance empire/infrastructure growth with military production so you don't get DoWed. It feels like it's only with a solid three-four cities I have a chance at all, and even then it's fairly even with the AI all throughout the game. I do the micromanagement stuff, and focus on growth and science, but that's just a way to get even.

 

[JeSuisNapoleon]

Tips for upping the difficulty:

Move up to immortal, but play on a smaller map with fewer AI. Perhaps even a dual map. Fast game speed. Once you beat that, move up to increasingly larger maps with more AI. Eventualy you will be winning a standard game.

I dont really care about turn counts. Everyone says the AI wins at turn ~315 on deity, and I assume they are right, but I dont play at deity (its too darn frustrating)

I find that if your pursuing a SV, then you should be able to win easily enough by turn 300 pretty much no matter what. There are plenty of threads here describing the basic strategy for a SV in less than 250 turns.

Domination victories are easier with fewer opponents, but harder with shorter games. If you can win a SV or a DV against 3 AI, why not against 6? and then 8. At that point, you should be able to win almost any immortal game.

The main idea is to get used to the pace of the game at immortal, and to feel how the AI / barbarians might behave differently at that level.

 

[budweiser]

Tips for upping the difficulty:

Move up to immortal, but play on a smaller map with fewer AI. Perhaps even a dual map. Fast game speed. Once you beat that, move up to increasingly larger maps with more AI. Eventualy you will be winning a standard game.

I dont really care about turn counts. Everyone says the AI wins at turn ~315 on deity, and I assume they are right, but I dont play at deity (its too darn frustrating)

I find that if your pursuing a SV, then you should be able to win easily enough by turn 300 pretty much no matter what. There are plenty of threads here describing the basic strategy for a SV in less than 250 turns.

Domination victories are easier with fewer opponents, but harder with shorter games. If you can win a SV or a DV against 3 AI, why not against 6? and then 8. At that point, you should be able to win almost any immortal game.

The main idea is to get used to the pace of the game at immortal, and to feel how the AI / barbarians might behave differently at that level.

Good advice.

Grow your capitol, attack and kill barbs.

 

[Magma_Dragoon]

Sheep are ideal for planting academies. A sheep with a pasture is +1 food, with another +1 at fertilizer. In other words, a sheep is an farm without irrigation. Sheep tiles also cannot have antiquities, because they are considered a type of bonus resource. Next to sheep, dry grassland is good. I have heard that antiquities can spawn near a human capital, but I have never had it happen to me. I consider this a bug in the antiquity placement script, so I have ingame editor mod just in case though.

 

[joncnunn]

I've won every game I've finished on Emperor and I want to get up to deity one day. The only problem is my turn times are pretty bad. The quickest win time I've gotten on Emperor is a turn 335 SV but I realized my problem I bulbed every single GS and didn't plant any of them. So any tips for a player trying to move up a level? Sorry for all the posts, I'm on a business trip so I have a lot of time on my hands!

Quicker turns to victory is easier at Immortal than Emperor. On Emperor you are probably first at everything to research by the time mid game starts; at Immortal, some of the AIs will have techs you don't. Here is why that matters:
1. For every AI you know that has a tech you don't, the tech is somewhat cheaper for you to research.
2. With BNW, your external cargo ship routes will also provide you a minor science boost on top of gold. (1 beaker for every 2 techs they have that you don't rounded up)

Yes; the first few GS should indeed become academies.

Main advice moving up to Immortal: Don't bother trying to build world wonders in early game. Fail gold isn't worth it.

 

[Doctor Doom]

Quicker turns to victory is easier at Immortal than Emperor. On Emperor you are probably first at everything to research by the time mid game starts; at Immortal, some of the AIs will have techs you don't. Here is why that matters:
1. For every AI you know that has a tech you don't, the tech is somewhat cheaper for you to research.
2. With BNW, your external cargo ship routes will also provide you a minor science boost on top of gold. (1 beaker for every tech they have that you don't rounded up)

Yes; the first few GS should indeed become academies.

Main advice moving up to Immortal: Don't bother trying to build world wonders in early game. Fail gold isn't worth it.

What wonders are worth it/possible to get? I normally go for the oracle if I can complete it by turn 80.

 

[adcarrymaokai]

What wonders are possible to get?

The Great Library.

 

[Erneiz Hyde]

No no no, GL is out. Playing Emperor you should already be used to not building GL anyways. If you want to build wonders, only build it rushed with a GE unless you got one of those legendary and godly starts.

 

[bison21]

I know I sound like a broken record but I can only repeat: watch deity LPs on Youtube. Not multiplayer. Yes MP wins are more impressive skill-wise, but it is played very differently- watch Elcee, Madjinn etc- they will also explain why the do and don't do certain things.

If you feel you have no idea what you should build in your city, that is a good indicator that you lost track of the red tape strategy which you need on immortal+. Ever had a massive army, losing at least 2 units per turn? You are doing it wrong. Think about every move. On emperor, it doesn't matter. Ever had workers just plop farms everywhere because after lux, you don't really know how to further maximize your play? Identify these situations- they are the weak spot.

Also something you will notice about deity players: they know 1. what the AI prefers to tech, 2. what they have already teched by looking at units, wonder pop-ups or (later on) spies to reveal the building order in the capital, and crucially 3. they know what tech will actually allow the AI to do what they are doing.

Knights, Lancers, Cavalry- do you know the difference by heart? For example, I used to blindly tech the bottom of the tree thinking that upgraded units are always superior to their predecessors. But when you can't be the tech leader throughout the game, how do you cope? Well, you have to know what units are vulnerable to others, their str/def and movement points. Deity players like to complain about how dumb the AI is, but let's face it, we players are even dumber when it comes to troop movement. How often do you send a unit around, not really knowing how many movement points they have left? Taking a chance, so to speak? I did that loads, and that cost me dearly. My first Immortal game I remember, I got mulled. Now, I can fight off Shaka with ease. It makes a difference, don't underestimate.

KNOW WHAT THE AI IS UP TO. Don't waste 35 turns on spying ending up stealing a 1-turn tech. Ouch! Check their social policies, their wonders. That tells you what victory they are likely to pursue. Be careful with diplomacy: if you have only one friend, try not to spy on him, use enemies first. Use the world congress votes to push civs into liking you. Don't prevent everything the AI wants. They have ridiculous bonuses anyway, extra culture for landmarks is not going to ruin your game- voting against it and pissing off people is getting you much more likely into trouble. Denounce before declaring war or before an AI is about to declare war on you, that gives bonus points if another civ denounces that same one.

An obviously, you can use "exploits" to ease into playing on a higher difficulty. Stealing workers from city states is shaving off alot of production, and if you feel you need to, you can trade GPT for Gold and then declare war, cancelling the GPT deal but retaining the gold. It is dirty play, but it might enable you to win the game, gaining experience in what you could have done so that you don't need to rely on an exploit.
Fyi: I play immortal- I lose on deity and win on emperor

 

[budweiser]

What wonders are worth it/possible to get? I normally go for the oracle if I can complete it by turn 80.

You can usually get the Oracle unless Pacal is in the game.

Many early wonders are available, ToA, SH, Mids, yada yada, but you should limit yourself to one depending on your terrain. Trying for too many will stunt growth.

If I open with calendar resources, then I skip a shrine and take SH. You just need some kind of hammer source to get a slight boost.

Once Renaissance is open, the only wonders the AI gets are the ones I want them to have.

 

[anthropophage]

One of the biggest things that'll speed up a science victory is getting science funding passed and avoiding arts funding. It's difficult, the AIs generally like Arts funding. Hosting the first world conference and getting your hands on the Forbidden Palace makes it much easier. So scout well, hurry towards Printing Press, get Pisa and use the free GE to rush the FP.

Another factor is early workers, capturing two or three free workers in the early part of the game will do a lot to boost your growth. More growth equals more science.

The quicker you finish the tradition tree the more growth you get. The Oracle is a vital wonder, it's often worth building before the NC, especially if you've spotted Pacal in your game.


As for placing Academies, try to get your first couple down on food tiles, grassland, deer, cows, bananas or wheat tiles. It's a tile you'll want to work constantly so having at least two food under it is very valuable. If you're placing it on grassland try to avoid taking a riverside tile because you'll miss out on the civil service bonus for farming that tile.

 

[joncnunn]

The Great Library.

That one is almost impossible on Immortal other than weird occansions where all seven AIs went for some other early wonder.

Oracle is one of the possible ones in addition to being one of the better ones; but any wonder that delays your NC is not worth it in the long run. (Science is King)
Plus if you've gone standard Tradition and didn't turn save policies on, you now have three filler policies while waiting for Rationalism rather than two. (Unless you are playing Poland in which case between your UA and Oracle, you can probably finish a second tree entirely without delaying Rationalism)

 

[milk steak]

The keys to leapfrogging the AIs in tech (and therefore everything else) is pretty straightforward: Get big population cities, especially your capital (food trade routes via sea are amazing), beeline Education, Scientific Theory, Plastics and buy, don't build, science buildings. Immediately stock your science specialist slots as population permits; You also want to stock the Writer and Artist slots as well. Open Rationalism ASAP and fill it out quickly (and build Porcelain Tower). Sign as many RAs as possible and pay for the AIs to fight each other constantly.

For late game tactics, you generally want to rush Satellites first, purchase a GE from Faith, and rush Hubble. From there I go to Boosters and hard build those and Cockpit (since you have Cockpit unlocked from hitting Satellites). Next, I go to the bottom SS part tech (I forget which it is) then finish out the top of the tech tree for the last SS part.

I go Order for the +25% GPP, +25% science from Factories, and GE rush SS parts policies. Since the SS part techs come staggered, you can easily build 4 or 5 of them by the time you reach the last SS tech and just GE that last one out. Make sure they're all on a road leading to the capital so you can just move them in and add them all in the same turn.

Once you unlock Secularism, running a lot of specialists isn't a bad idea -- Just make sure not to accidentally pop a Merchant or something in lieu of a Scientist. If you want to micro even further, 8 turns before you generate a new Great Scientist, stock all specialist slots and have all your cities building Research. GS bulb beakers are a sum of your previous 8 turns worth of science so you can really maximize GS bulbs with this technique.

Oxford and/or Rationalism finisher is well used for Astronomy (if you have mountains) or Plastics as each of those techs gives you a tremendous 50% science boost.