Man O War + Ironclads

[NickWJM]

Is it me or are the Men Of War of the British Navy practically useless. You get the tech to be able to make them and then one tech later their useless with the discovery of Steam Power and Ironclads. Frigates ruled the sea for over 200 years and this is not really represented in the game as time u build them u get the ironclad which is far better. Perhaps Frigates/MOW should be available a lil earlier. This was a problem also experienced in previous games but i think is highlighted now more especially if your playing as the british as the MOW is the special unit representing the Royal Navys rule of the see for over a centuary.
Is there anyway this could be balanced in a mod?..

What makes it a lil more irritating is the Ironclads look AWFUL, I know their based on the USS Monitor and CSS Merremic of the american civil war but why?, and perhaps that IS why, because there american (ie an american game). Surely a more pleasing sight for an Ironclad would be of the HMS Warrior (the first true ironcladed warship) or even (for any French out there) the La Gloire a converted frigate with iron plating. At least these would actually LOOK good, but neways.

As for the rest of the game i aint yet got to the airpower stage of the game but the rest is excellent. Yeah I know of the problems of no more firepower but with the proper use of artillery both in offence and defence negates this effect. For instance, 1 Spearman defending a city, possible that one tank on its own may loose (game mechanics not reality), however u use 2 pieces of normal artillery and that spearman is down to 1 hitpoint and the chances of that then killing a tank is negligible. Same can be said vice-versa, tank defending with art in city, art fires first and dito.

anyways this is turning into a large post so am not gonna go on anymore.. =)..

 

[FullofHoles]

Personally, I usually have frigates for quite a while. Magnetism is the first of the "final" techs that I get in the medieval ages. That leaves me with four or so (including "Military Tradition" which is technically an optional) techs remaining.

Also, since ironclads require coal, sometimes I can't make them anyway.

 

[Not Todd]

I think they look cool myself, but for historical reasons I don't think they should be allowed to enter ocean squares and should have a 10% chance of foundering if they end the turn in a sea square.

If you want to talk about worthless units, how about the Privateer? Wins maybe half the time against a trireme, from what I've seen, and worthless against anything else.

 

[Proteus]

Maybe the Privateer isn´t too strong in Combat.
But the big advantage is, that you can use it to attack Civilizations you´re at Peace with.
I always build some of them just to harass my Neighbours a bit.

 

[TrailblazingScot]

The man-of-war is virtually useless...when I get the time I'm going to restructure that ole tech tree...

 

[Giorgicus]

I personally do not think that the ironclad should be able to travel the open seas; they should hug the coasts like a trireme does.

If you've ever seen pictures of the monitor, you would seriously doubt whether you would want to try crossing the Atlantic in that.

Keeping the ironclad close to the shore would make the frigate and the man-o-war a more dominant vessel until the advent of the destroyer.

My .02.

 

[doink66]

Naval units definately need some work. I was keeping pace with the computer through the Industrial age, I had a good fleet of 8 ironclads that took me a long time to build up... I hit refining and found out I didn't have any oil at all. Of course no one was going to trade me for it.. by the time I found a nation weak enough to attack to get their oil they had build 1 destroyer... Their 1 destoyer destroyed all of my iron clads... that is too unbalanced. You need to have a fair chance if your unit is only one tech behind... at least 8 should have a chance against 1.

 

[aiya]

Originally posted by doink66
Naval units definately need some work. I was keeping pace with the computer through the Industrial age, I had a good fleet of 8 ironclads that took me a long time to build up... I hit refining and found out I didn't have any oil at all. Of course no one was going to trade me for it.. by the time I found a nation weak enough to attack to get their oil they had build 1 destroyer... Their 1 destoyer destroyed all of my iron clads... that is too unbalanced. You need to have a fair chance if your unit is only one tech behind... at least 8 should have a chance against 1.

Here's a tip:

Bombard the destroyer with your ironclads first. Out of 8 shots, you should at least have some chance to take down some of his HP. That should give you a fighting chance.

Also, stack your ships, so that when the enemy ship attacks, you get another chance to bombard the attacker.

 

[benn]

Originally posted by Giorgicus
I personally do not think that the ironclad should be able to travel the open seas; they should hug the coasts like a trireme does.

My .02.

As some one mentioned earlier, there were other ironclads after the Monitor class.
I figure "ironclads" represent the fighting ships from the 1860s to 1900s (or whenever the dreadnought class of battleship appeared). Some of them were probably more seaworthy than the ole Monitor was.

 

[Giorgicus]

Originally posted by benn

I figure "ironclads" represent the fighting ships from the 1860s to 1900s (or whenever the dreadnought class of battleship appeared). Some of them were probably more seaworthy than the ole Monitor was.

Benn:

True, but weren't all coal-powered ships rather limited in range (due to the amount of coal they could carry)?

I am not an expert on this subject.

 

[TrailblazingScot]

It depends on the nation...the British Empire had coaling stations dotted around the world so could more her ships virtually anywhere even at times of war.

But endurance was the main reason -apart from the fact that smoke produced from coal powered ships made them visible from further away- that coal was replaced with oil...not to mention that coal isn't very efficient weight&space/energy provided and is dirty.

 

[benn]

Yes, coal steamers were still able to do transoceanic crossings.