[GS] Mansa Musa, Desert Folklore or Religious Settlements?

[Sostratus]

The extra settler is really really handy on high difficulties (emperor+) to keep you competitive in the early land grab against the AI’s free settler, which usually means they can get their 3rd and 4th city up extremely fast.

I think desert folklore is a little overrated, if only because spots that offer 3-6 faith that way are in the middle of the desert and worth 0 normally, when you could have settled not literally in the middle of the desert and had some 2-3 faith spots normally on better terrain.

Malinese citizens don’t like to eat sand, the actual citizens still benefit from working tiles with a yield.

that said, I find folklore extremely fun especially with choral music as another poster mentioned, because then a size 7 city can pump faith, culture (holy site) science (campus) and gold (suguba.) Religious settlements is meta but I already know the Mansa Musa Corporation is going to cover the wasteland with branch offices and filthy lucre, so it’s no big deal.

If you’re cramming cities into the desert, be sure you’re leveraging those sugubas to the max! (See my signature!) don’t leave money on the table!!

 

[lotrmith]

The extra settler is really really handy on high difficulties (emperor+) to keep you competitive in the early land grab against the AI’s free settler, which usually means they can get their 3rd and 4th city up extremely fast.

I think desert folklore is a little overrated, if only because spots that offer 3-6 faith that way are in the middle of the desert and worth 0 normally, when you could have settled not literally in the middle of the desert and had some 2-3 faith spots normally on better terrain.

Malinese citizens don’t like to eat sand, the actual citizens still benefit from working tiles with a yield.

that said, I find folklore extremely fun especially with choral music as another poster mentioned, because then a size 7 city can pump faith, culture (holy site) science (campus) and gold (suguba.) Religious settlements is meta but I already know the Mansa Musa Corporation is going to cover the wasteland with branch offices and filthy lucre, so it’s no big deal.

If you’re cramming cities into the desert, be sure you’re leveraging those sugubas to the max! (See my signature!) don’t leave money on the table!!

Well I mean, since Mali city centers gain +1 food for every adjacent desert tile, I would say they do, in fact, like to eat sand.

There's also plenty of opportunity for decent tiles to work when you settle desert. Oasis and Floodplains, and also settle just inside a desert so your 3rd or even 2nd city ring expand to non-desert tiles.

 

[Sostratus]

Well I mean, since Mali city centers gain +1 food for every adjacent desert tile, I would say they do, in fact, like to eat sand.

There's also plenty of opportunity for decent tiles to work when you settle desert. Oasis and Floodplains, and also settle just inside a desert so your 3rd or even 2nd city ring expand to non-desert tiles.

I was waiting for someone to mention that as soon as I said they don’t eat sand...

The problem with Mali + desert fantasies people seem to imagine, is very rarely does the map give you the big sprawling desert to work. I had a simply outrageous Mali game when GS first dropped where that was the case, but usually just stuffing in a cluster of HS+ suguba fills up the majority of the desert. Settling desert’s edge is ideal anyways, as you mention, since those cities can actually contribute early/mid game.

the real value of the Mali desert ability, IMO, is that you can settle normal terrain like any other civ and also slap down colonies in the desert areas other avoid relatively quick- and use them as giant collectors for gold and faith. Not that you should pack up and head for the dunes exclusively- although I concede some value in setting up a lone city in the middle of a big desert to send all your international routes out of thanks to that ability.
DF is a very fun ability, it’s just that Mansa wants to cover the four corners of the earth, most of which is not desert, so the average effect isn’t really as high as it seems.

 

[lotrmith]

I was waiting for someone to mention that as soon as I said they don’t eat sand...

The problem with Mali + desert fantasies people seem to imagine, is very rarely does the map give you the big sprawling desert to work. I had a simply outrageous Mali game when GS first dropped where that was the case, but usually just stuffing in a cluster of HS+ suguba fills up the majority of the desert. Settling desert’s edge is ideal anyways, as you mention, since those cities can actually contribute early/mid game.

the real value of the Mali desert ability, IMO, is that you can settle normal terrain like any other civ and also slap down colonies in the desert areas other avoid relatively quick- and use them as giant collectors for gold and faith. Not that you should pack up and head for the dunes exclusively- although I concede some value in setting up a lone city in the middle of a big desert to send all your international routes out of thanks to that ability.
DF is a very fun ability, it’s just that Mansa wants to cover the four corners of the earth, most of which is not desert, so the average effect isn’t really as high as it seems.

I would say the same (limited average effect) of almost every other Pantheon as well.

 

[gimper42]

If enough of the tiles are available, then Lady of the Reeds and Marshes seems like an obvious choice for Mali. +2 production is potentially game changing.

I almost never choose Religious Settlements if LotRaM is available and worthwhile.

 

[Archon_Wing]

The thing to remember is Mali already easily generates faith just by settling on the desert, so you're sacrificing everything else to get even more faith that can be redundant until classical era. And Classical Golden Age is not guaranteed if you get hit by lots of barbs or the land just sucks.

Mali in particular cannot fully utilize their faith until sugubas come online too, so this setup takes a lot longer.

Of course we also must consider we're talking about very early RS. If it was like turn 30 or something, maybe could argue the extra settler isn't as good, but by that time RS is usually not even available. Basically, RS is the best choice when it is a choice, and when it isn't, it doesn't matter anyways.

 

[Banazir864]

If enough of the tiles are available, then Lady of the Reeds and Marshes seems like an obvious choice for Mali. +2 production is potentially game changing.

I almost never choose Religious Settlements if LotRaM is available and worthwhile.

Part of it depends whether you plan to go for Work Ethic. With Work Ethic, you’ll generally get way more than +2 Production from Desert Folklore, although it doesn’t kick in until you actually found a religion.

 

[Equilin]

Part of it depends whether you plan to go for Work Ethic. With Work Ethic, you’ll generally get way more than +2 Production from Desert Folklore, although it doesn’t kick in until you actually found a religion.

Compared to the production you get from free settler I don't think it's even comparable (especially since you also have to invest in early religion to get production back too).

 

[Datian]

i believe you shouldnt get religious settlements since either way mansa musa is meant for tall

How is Mali meant for tall ?

I tend to play it very wide actually, settling tons of cities in remote corners to get more faith, gold, trade routes, and rinse and repeat.
And housing will be a problem in desert cities so tall play is quite difficult to pull, unless you go in flat plains, and then what's the point of playing Mali ?

The thing to remember is Mali already easily generates faith just by settling on the desert, so you're sacrificing everything else to get even more faith that can be redundant until classical era. And Classical Golden Age is not guaranteed if you get hit by lots of barbs or the land just sucks.

Mali in particular cannot fully utilize their faith until sugubas come online too, so this setup takes a lot longer.

Of course we also must consider we're talking about very early RS. If it was like turn 30 or something, maybe could argue the extra settler isn't as good, but by that time RS is usually not even available. Basically, RS is the best choice when it is a choice, and when it isn't, it doesn't matter anyways.

This setup is indeed long to pull but if you can survive early game, desert folklore will give you a ton of faith in every desert city (and you can spam them, you won't get contested there), which will fuel your productive cities in more ordinary places.
And even those small, doomed cities in the waste can be quite productive with work ethic, and provide science and culture with secret societies and voidsingers.
Of course you rely on a classical golden age but it's not so difficult to pull with this civ.

Plus, this is fun : you play Mali on its strength, rather than trying to compensate its weakness with a quick settler.

 

[Archon_Wing]

This setup is indeed long to pull but if you can survive early game, desert folklore will give you a ton of faith in every desert city (and you can spam them, you won't get contested there), which will fuel your productive cities in more ordinary places.
And even those small, doomed cities in the waste can be quite productive with work ethic, and provide science and culture with secret societies and voidsingers.
Of course you rely on a classical golden age but it's not so difficult to pull with this civ.

It's easier to get a GA as Mali, but the more "ifs" I think make a strategy weaker. It's more that RS is almost always useful with no ifs or buts.

And that's another thing. Work Ethic is worse for Mali than anyone else.

 

[ezzlar]

Since the thread was necroed much of the opinions here aren't valid anymore.

 

[Oberinspektor Derrick]

It's easier to get a GA as Mali, but the more "ifs" I think make a strategy weaker. It's more that RS is almost always useful with no ifs or buts.

And that's another thing. Work Ethic is worse for Mali than anyone else.

I disagree with this.
Work Ethic is in my opinion good, because Mali is balanced around horrendous production early on, while with Work Ethic active, you get your production up to very decent levels and effectively take away the one massive downside of playing Mali.
With the +100% holy site adjacency card slotted, you lose out on about +3 production compared to any other civ (assuming a +6 holy site, doubled to +12, but reduced to +9 for Mali), which isnt a lot.
The relative production increase is by the way still the same for Mali with Work Ethic active, as they already have lower base production, making any increase (even if reduced) provide the same relative increase in saved build time.
Another reason for Work Ethic being good still, is that the -30% production only applies to units and buildings.
Districts are not affected, and neither are Wonders, and especially districts are a source of significant production cost early on (even if you lock in a cheap price).
I also found that Mali often gets away with buying so much stuff for faith/gold (their upside), so they have more room to produce wonders than other civs could get away with.
And since Pyramids, Petra (and heck, even Jebel Barkal/Sankore in some cases) are so good for Mali, you get a big leg up when trying to go for these wonders.

Edit: This is assuming a "decent amount" of settling space for desert cities, where high adjacency HS' are possible.