Morten Blaabjerg
Settler
Jonah Falcon has shared much info over at apolyton. Check out the new info and those new screenshots of the editor! Looks very promising indeed!
http://www.apolyton.net/civ3/
http://www.apolyton.net/civ3/
Massive Editor Info
- Thread starter Morten Blaabjerg
- Start date
bulletsponge
Warlord
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2001
- Messages
- 229
Eww...I dont like apolyton...not to mention the forum...it always seems to be in a negative feel when i read it...and the hopelessly insane arguements that insue there...specially the stupid one about America not deserving to be in Civ3...LMAO...
Morten Blaabjerg
Settler
The shots are for real, though. btw, it's not in the forum, it's in the news section.
But still I don't smell much about the civ3 events script. The editor does look comprehensive, though, so I'm sure it's in there.
I wonder though, if those "checkboxes" will feel less or more restraining than the rules.txt. Its been taken to a more abstract level with this editor. I'm not sure how much control one will have over the "hardcoded" effects. I doubt one can do much but assign them a little differently. Which is OK, as its an great improvement from Civ2, where they were tied to specific improvements and unit slots. But it doesn't really expand much on the "unusual combinations". I guess we'll just have to be creative.
But still I don't smell much about the civ3 events script. The editor does look comprehensive, though, so I'm sure it's in there.
I wonder though, if those "checkboxes" will feel less or more restraining than the rules.txt. Its been taken to a more abstract level with this editor. I'm not sure how much control one will have over the "hardcoded" effects. I doubt one can do much but assign them a little differently. Which is OK, as its an great improvement from Civ2, where they were tied to specific improvements and unit slots. But it doesn't really expand much on the "unusual combinations". I guess we'll just have to be creative.
Vinc
Prince
Looks very, very promising 
Locutus
King of the Collective
Morten,
Until now I've never visited the CivFanatic Forums for longer than 5 minutes (heh, better late than never
), I don't know how much info from Apolyton is known here. So you may already know this but Dan Magaha confirmed weeks ago in the Apolyton Forums that Civ3 would not have any kind of events-, marco- or scripting-language... 
Morten Blaabjerg
Settler
This is indeed bad news. No, I didn't hear that; on the contrary, Dan posted about the same thing a couple of months ago, where he mentioned words like "triggers" and "events". Guess they had to rush things a little in the end. Do you have a link to that thread, where Dan posted?
"promises, schmomises!"
Before I got to know the events system of Civ2, I figured scenarios could easily be without events. But now I can't think of any decent scenario which doesn't use particular events to twist or tweak a historical scenario. Most memorable are the quest-type scenarios, which are carefully scripted with events, such as Jay Bees El Dorado and Allard Höfelts River War. I looked forward to further tweaking of these aspects, not limitations to them.
And with all those efforts to expand the size of the events-file among the scen-makers, doesn't Firaxis have eyes in their heads?
-If not Civ3 is THE opportunity to expand on this popular aspect, I don't know what would be.
Suddenly my anticipation for this game has dropped dramatically.
I really do think they should release an expansion pack in a couple of months (or maybe more), once they've got the multiplayer part and the scripting language ready for implementation. Then they'd have time to fix the unavoidable bugs, too. Too bad really, they didn't postpone the game until those things were properly in place.
No, I didn't hear that; on the contrary, Dan posted about the same thing a couple of months ago, where he mentioned words like "triggers" and "events". Guess they had to rush things a little in the end. Do you have a link to that thread, where Dan posted?"promises, schmomises!"
Before I got to know the events system of Civ2, I figured scenarios could easily be without events. But now I can't think of any decent scenario which doesn't use particular events to twist or tweak a historical scenario. Most memorable are the quest-type scenarios, which are carefully scripted with events, such as Jay Bees El Dorado and Allard Höfelts River War. I looked forward to further tweaking of these aspects, not limitations to them.
And with all those efforts to expand the size of the events-file among the scen-makers, doesn't Firaxis have eyes in their heads?
-If not Civ3 is THE opportunity to expand on this popular aspect, I don't know what would be.
Suddenly my anticipation for this game has dropped dramatically.
I really do think they should release an expansion pack in a couple of months (or maybe more), once they've got the multiplayer part and the scripting language ready for implementation. Then they'd have time to fix the unavoidable bugs, too. Too bad really, they didn't postpone the game until those things were properly in place.
Henrik
Emperor
Originally posted by Locutus
Morten,
Until now I've never visited the CivFanatic Forums for longer than 5 minutes (heh, better late than never
Well, I wouldnt be so sure of this, as I recal, he said that there will be no scripting language, and the thread was about controlling AI behaviour...
There is still hope...
Locutus
King of the Collective
Well, Henrik, just to do you a favour () I asked about in the Apolyton Civ3 Release Chat Party (it's still going on, come join us!). This is Mike Breitkreutz's response:
"[LoQtus] does Civ3 have an event/macro/scripting language of any sort or anything even vaguely resembling it?
[connorkimbro] An addition to LoQtus's question. . if there isn't one yet, how easy would it be to add one, and is that something that is planned?
[LoQtus] that's exactly what I wanted to add myself too
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] A scripting language was not implemented for civ3 because we do not have any in-game support for events. I may or may not add scripting language support in the future but it will most likely be more of a visual script akin to StarCraft's editor."
Edit: stupid HTML
I'll see if I can dig the forum thread up as well, once the chat is over.
) I asked about in the Apolyton Civ3 Release Chat Party (it's still going on, come join us!). This is Mike Breitkreutz's response:"[LoQtus] does Civ3 have an event/macro/scripting language of any sort or anything even vaguely resembling it?
[connorkimbro] An addition to LoQtus's question. . if there isn't one yet, how easy would it be to add one, and is that something that is planned?
[LoQtus] that's exactly what I wanted to add myself too
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] A scripting language was not implemented for civ3 because we do not have any in-game support for events. I may or may not add scripting language support in the future but it will most likely be more of a visual script akin to StarCraft's editor."
Edit: stupid HTML
I'll see if I can dig the forum thread up as well, once the chat is over.
Morten Blaabjerg
Settler
What does this imply? I heard that was pretty good and powerful, but I've never seen it. Guess it'll be Civ3 MGE all over again...
Locutus
King of the Collective
Well, found the thread back, it can be found here. This is what Dan had to say:
The editor/scripting language issue came up again later on, here's a (selection of) that part of the chat:
"[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] I think I would've liked to have had more stuff in the editor but I certainly agreed that we shouldn't have held up the game's release solely for the editor....
[LoQtus] what do you most miss from the editor then?
[Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] Certain featureswere cut from the game and editor, and it was a shame to see them go, but I agree it was better to develop a solid game, and add the cool features later
[LoQtus] scripting language? :cute:
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] Actually, the lack of a scripting language doesn't bother me -- if implemented properly an editor can be more powerful AND user-friendly than a scripting language.... in my experience anyway. I've written scripting languages before and I've noticed users havea much easier time making mistakes.
[LoQtus] true, a scripting language is difficult to use, I'll be the first to admit that, but what other method can approach it in terms of 'modding power'?
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] Well, I've worked on editors for other games where we had what we called "Action Lists" which were basically "Visual Scripting Languages" and made it impossible for users to make syntax errors. They require a little more work in some areas but less in others and I think the end result is superior....
[Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] The AI is very adaptive, and we have ideas to add a few features that should give you a considerable amount of "modding power"
[LoQtus] hmm, i'm not familiar with those, certainly worth giving a try. you mentioned starcraft earlier, do you know any other games with this sort of action lists?
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] I know of 2 or 3 but they were used only internally` The StarCraft editor is a very similar concept though.
[LoQtus] javier: care to elaborate? this sounds very interesting, esp. for a hardcore modder like me
[LoQtus] hmm, must get that game then...
[Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] Alas I don't know all the details, and I don't want to promise things that get cut later ;-)
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] I modeled a lot of the editor after StarCraft and Age of Kings since I was familiar with both of them....
[LoQtus] btw, mike. is there any good literature on this subject? i never heard of it before...
[LoQtus] hmmm, I was afraid of that, javier would you have told me if there weren't any people like yin?
[Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] who? ;-)
[LoQtus] lol
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] Actually, I haven't seen any literature on it either. For that matter, I haven't seen any literature on editors in general (not that I looked very hard)....
[LoQtus] hmm, well, I'll guess I'll have to look for it myself then... thanks anyway"
Look out for the full chat transcript on Apolyton later today, it contains tons of interesting info, on all aspects of Civ3.
As far as a future scripting language goes, I never played StarCraft either. It does look like Firaxis/Infogrames is trying to milk this baby to its fullest, ala Civ2
The editor/scripting language issue came up again later on, here's a (selection of) that part of the chat:"[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] I think I would've liked to have had more stuff in the editor but I certainly agreed that we shouldn't have held up the game's release solely for the editor....
[LoQtus] what do you most miss from the editor then?
[Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] Certain featureswere cut from the game and editor, and it was a shame to see them go, but I agree it was better to develop a solid game, and add the cool features later
[LoQtus] scripting language? :cute:
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] Actually, the lack of a scripting language doesn't bother me -- if implemented properly an editor can be more powerful AND user-friendly than a scripting language.... in my experience anyway. I've written scripting languages before and I've noticed users havea much easier time making mistakes.
[LoQtus] true, a scripting language is difficult to use, I'll be the first to admit that, but what other method can approach it in terms of 'modding power'?
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] Well, I've worked on editors for other games where we had what we called "Action Lists" which were basically "Visual Scripting Languages" and made it impossible for users to make syntax errors. They require a little more work in some areas but less in others and I think the end result is superior....
[Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] The AI is very adaptive, and we have ideas to add a few features that should give you a considerable amount of "modding power"
[LoQtus] hmm, i'm not familiar with those, certainly worth giving a try. you mentioned starcraft earlier, do you know any other games with this sort of action lists?
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] I know of 2 or 3 but they were used only internally`
The StarCraft editor is a very similar concept though.[LoQtus] javier: care to elaborate? this sounds very interesting, esp. for a hardcore modder like me
[LoQtus] hmm, must get that game then...
[Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] Alas I don't know all the details, and I don't want to promise things that get cut later ;-)
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] I modeled a lot of the editor after StarCraft and Age of Kings since I was familiar with both of them....
[LoQtus] btw, mike. is there any good literature on this subject? i never heard of it before...
[LoQtus] hmmm, I was afraid of that, javier
would you have told me if there weren't any people like yin? [Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] who? ;-)
[LoQtus] lol
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] Actually, I haven't seen any literature on it either. For that matter, I haven't seen any literature on editors in general (not that I looked very hard)....
[LoQtus] hmm, well, I'll guess I'll have to look for it myself then... thanks anyway"
Look out for the full chat transcript on Apolyton later today, it contains tons of interesting info, on all aspects of Civ3.
Morten Blaabjerg
Settler
Thanx for all that info, Locutus! 
It's really appreciated. Sounds like this baby is not finished at all, and contain sweet opportunities for future improvement.
It's really appreciated. Sounds like this baby is not finished at all, and contain sweet opportunities for future improvement.
Similar threads
