aaglo
Furioso!
Baby on the way? Good job, both of you 
.
All the best for you all three.
oh, yeah. thanks for they update
.All the best for you all three.
oh, yeah. thanks for they update
Master of Myrror Fantasy Mod 2.0
- Thread starter Drift
- Start date
aaglo
Furioso!
Spawned by rally points? What are those? Some race-specific buildings?Drift said:
Seems quite interesting&strange
Drift
It's a boy!
Thanks everyone.
Rally points are indeed race specific buildings (small wonders to be exact). Each race unit has its own rally point.
For example, 'Lizardman Rally Point I' spawns Skinks every 10 turns. Once you research 'Dark Elves & Lizardmen II', the rally point becomes obsolete and you can build 'Lizardman Rally Point II' that spawns Bow Skinks every 8 turns. Rally points cost nothing to build, have no upkeep and spawn units as longs the player controls the required resource.
Rally points are indeed race specific buildings (small wonders to be exact). Each race unit has its own rally point.
For example, 'Lizardman Rally Point I' spawns Skinks every 10 turns. Once you research 'Dark Elves & Lizardmen II', the rally point becomes obsolete and you can build 'Lizardman Rally Point II' that spawns Bow Skinks every 8 turns. Rally points cost nothing to build, have no upkeep and spawn units as longs the player controls the required resource.
aaglo
Furioso!
So, that way you can have only one city "producing" those race-specific units... hmm. Interesting. Then I think that those race-specific units should be quite powerful (compared to all regular units), since there won't be that many of them, I guess...
Intersting concept again, Drift
Intersting concept again, Drift
Drift
It's a boy!
Well, they are meant as a flavor, not mainstay, so they aren't really much stronger than regular Of course, some mages benefit more from some races.
Like the example hinted, they spawn faster as time goes on. Rally Point V spawns units every two turns. It naturally depends on the player and the size of the map how important they are, but I'd say that in normal games, they should be well worth fighting over. In the test games I've had with this setup, I've hunted race resources a lot more than I did before.
What I like about the system is that it forces the player to operate with his own summoned units - you can't get a 'perfect' unit selection by capturing loads of resources. You will get additional units from them, but when it comes to building units, you are still stuck with your own stuff. There's a downside to it, combinations like chaos with dwarves can't be done any more. On the other hand, being stuck with your own units, different mages have more varied playing styles than they did before.
Like the example hinted, they spawn faster as time goes on. Rally Point V spawns units every two turns. It naturally depends on the player and the size of the map how important they are, but I'd say that in normal games, they should be well worth fighting over. In the test games I've had with this setup, I've hunted race resources a lot more than I did before.
What I like about the system is that it forces the player to operate with his own summoned units - you can't get a 'perfect' unit selection by capturing loads of resources. You will get additional units from them, but when it comes to building units, you are still stuck with your own stuff. There's a downside to it, combinations like chaos with dwarves can't be done any more. On the other hand, being stuck with your own units, different mages have more varied playing styles than they did before.
Drift
It's a boy!
Alright, the file is available. Sorry for the delay. I didn't have the filename correctly written in the link - who knows how long the file has been available without me knowing. The mistake was just one letter not being in caps, but that's enough to break the link.
So, here it is:
Master of Myrror 2.0 Beta 3 (61MB)
Edit: I just realised that I posted the first beta of MoM 1.0 exactly one year ago. Circle is closing.
So, here it is:
Master of Myrror 2.0 Beta 3 (61MB)
- Before installing, make sure you have Master of Myrror 1.0 or 1.01 installed. This beta replaces all earlier betas.
- This is a self-extracting archive. Execute it, browse for Civ3\Conquests\Scenarios\ and hit "install". Overwrite existing files.
- After installing, also install the latest patch. Simply unzip to Civ3\Conquests\Scenarios
Edit: I just realised that I posted the first beta of MoM 1.0 exactly one year ago. Circle is closing.
aaglo
Furioso!
Wow, it seems that the beta 3 -patch is available - It may be a long night ahead 
[Edit]: Doh!
- I didn't ... I wasn't... uhh, right 
- It may be a long night ahead [Edit]: Doh!
- I didn't ... I wasn't... uhh, right 
nullspace
King
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2002
- Messages
- 728
Yay, it's uploaded now!
Alright, I started up a game as Sss'ra because I wanted to play a chaos mage and see what you did with the mystic trait. And I've already got something to whine about ! Fanatics upgrade to beastmen, and that's definitely new. I know I complained about units that took a long time to upgrade before, but as soon as I get chaos 2, the only unit I can build for exploration and mp is 30 energy 
. It's turn 31, I've only got 3 fanatics, and I can't build any more. This was the number one case where a skipped upgrade was very useful. But I do like the new graphic for the beastmen.
Alright, I started up a game as Sss'ra because I wanted to play a chaos mage and see what you did with the mystic trait. And I've already got something to whine about
! Fanatics upgrade to beastmen, and that's definitely new. I know I complained about units that took a long time to upgrade before, but as soon as I get chaos 2, the only unit I can build for exploration and mp is 30 energy . It's turn 31, I've only got 3 fanatics, and I can't build any more. This was the number one case where a skipped upgrade was very useful. But I do like the new graphic for the beastmen.
Drift
It's a boy!
@nullspace
Uh oh, that is something of an oversight (the upgrade thing). I'll change it for next patch.
Also, I can't remember off the top of my head, what I did with the mystic trait. Could be that I did nothing with it. It was a little difficult to pick up after my vacation from modding as I didn't fully remember all things I had been doing before I got fed up with it. I'll look into it.
If the increased unit costs prove to be too annoying, I can change them as well. It was just that I felt like building units was too quick&easy. I figured that raising all unit costs would simply reduce the overall amount of units built without affecting the balance too much.
Uh oh, that is something of an oversight (the upgrade thing). I'll change it for next patch.
Also, I can't remember off the top of my head, what I did with the mystic trait. Could be that I did nothing with it. It was a little difficult to pick up after my vacation from modding as I didn't fully remember all things I had been doing before I got fed up with it. I'll look into it.
If the increased unit costs prove to be too annoying, I can change them as well. It was just that I felt like building units was too quick&easy. I figured that raising all unit costs would simply reduce the overall amount of units built without affecting the balance too much.
nullspace
King
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2002
- Messages
- 728
Actually, looking at the civilopedia makes it look like chaos's upgrades are messed up in another way. Beastmen upgrade to hellbeasts (skipping chaos warriors), and hellbeasts upgrade to chaos warriors (which are earlier and cheaper), and chaos warriors upgrade to maulers. It should be:
Fanatic -> chaos warrior -> hellbeast -> mauler
and
Beastman -> chaos warrior -> etc.
As for the mystic trait, my shrines are half cost, which is good, but the pedia only says spiritual improvements like shrines and temples are cheap. I was hoping for a bit more to the trait (I'm rooting for making production-enhancing buildings cheaper).
Also, essence of chaos doesn't require a chaos node, and in the pedia, the rock lobber and doom mortar use the graphics for the fire catapult and trebuchet.
Otherwise, it's cool. Chaos seems to have a very distinctive line of ships and artillery, and I'm looking forward to using both.
Fanatic -> chaos warrior -> hellbeast -> mauler
and
Beastman -> chaos warrior -> etc.
As for the mystic trait, my shrines are half cost, which is good, but the pedia only says spiritual improvements like shrines and temples are cheap. I was hoping for a bit more to the trait (I'm rooting for making production-enhancing buildings cheaper).
Also, essence of chaos doesn't require a chaos node, and in the pedia, the rock lobber and doom mortar use the graphics for the fire catapult and trebuchet.
Otherwise, it's cool. Chaos seems to have a very distinctive line of ships and artillery, and I'm looking forward to using both.
Drift
It's a boy!
@nullspace
Excellent, good bug hunting. I've now fixed all those. Maybe I should start releasing patches. None of these are fatal, but especially the mixed up chaos upgrade lines really hinder chaos mages.
I'll consider the production enhancing mystic trait.
Excellent, good bug hunting.
I've now fixed all those. Maybe I should start releasing patches. None of these are fatal, but especially the mixed up chaos upgrade lines really hinder chaos mages.I'll consider the production enhancing mystic trait.
Drift
It's a boy!
Here's a patch to fix those small bugs mentioned by nullspace. I also fixed pediaicons for devils and lava elementals.
edit: Patch became outdated. Check page #1 for the latest patch.
edit: Patch became outdated. Check page #1 for the latest patch.
I like the changes you made, it's an awesome mod, nature mages are the best imo, griffins and gnoll champions are very powerful with their high movement ... 
anyway I came across some errors I think:
channel energy has the wrong description, it shows the description for the palace and the spellforges don't produce spells anymore, instead they produce artillery units
anyway I came across some errors I think:
channel energy has the wrong description, it shows the description for the palace and the spellforges don't produce spells anymore, instead they produce artillery units
Drift
It's a boy!
@dottim
Thanks for compliments and feedback.
Damnit. I finally rearranged my unit list in the editor to keep it in better order and in the process, all the unit producing improvements got all mixed up. I was certain I had fixed all of them... Looks like an another patch. Luckily this one isn't fatal either, just annoying.
Thanks for compliments and feedback.
Damnit. I finally rearranged my unit list in the editor to keep it in better order and in the process, all the unit producing improvements got all mixed up. I was certain I had fixed all of them... Looks like an another patch. Luckily this one isn't fatal either, just annoying.
Drift
It's a boy!
Master of Myrror 2.0 Beta 3 patch 2 (0.05MB)
I fixed everything mentioned by Dottim and also a number of similar bugs. Many of the improvements had the palace's pedia description and some other unit producing wonders produced wrong units. Also, chaos ships had a broken upgrade chain.
Again, I'm sorry about the patch bombardment. I just believe that it's best to take care of bugs as fast as possible, even if it means that new patches may come very often. Best option would be to make a bug free mod from the start, but there's only so much time one can invest in this thing and after a while, you become blind to your own work. Also, this is beta test for a reason. We're rooting out the bugs so that the final 2.0 would be as enjoyable as possible. Thanks for your patience.
- Unzip to Civ3\Conquests\Scenarios\ and overwrite existing files.
I fixed everything mentioned by Dottim and also a number of similar bugs. Many of the improvements had the palace's pedia description and some other unit producing wonders produced wrong units. Also, chaos ships had a broken upgrade chain.
Again, I'm sorry about the patch bombardment. I just believe that it's best to take care of bugs as fast as possible, even if it means that new patches may come very often. Best option would be to make a bug free mod from the start, but there's only so much time one can invest in this thing and after a while, you become blind to your own work. Also, this is beta test for a reason. We're rooting out the bugs so that the final 2.0 would be as enjoyable as possible. Thanks for your patience.
aaglo
Furioso!
Hey, a few comments on the previous patch:
- in the race selection screen, when you look at the description of different mages: there are several wrong links in the units-lists
- I played as chaos. in the city screen when I was building chaos shrine, I right-clicked on the item I was building to see the civilopedia for it, but it came out as something completely different ("air" something?). when I checked the chaos shrine normally from the civilopedia, it worked normally. so, what was that? Also, the chaos shrine looks exactly like the wizards tower (=palace).
- skull catapult has no civilopedia info
BTW, If the rally points are buildable only in one spot, maybe the abundance of those race-resources could be increased? Looking good so far
- in the race selection screen, when you look at the description of different mages: there are several wrong links in the units-lists
- I played as chaos. in the city screen when I was building chaos shrine, I right-clicked on the item I was building to see the civilopedia for it, but it came out as something completely different ("air" something?). when I checked the chaos shrine normally from the civilopedia, it worked normally. so, what was that? Also, the chaos shrine looks exactly like the wizards tower (=palace).
- skull catapult has no civilopedia info
BTW, If the rally points are buildable only in one spot, maybe the abundance of those race-resources could be increased? Looking good so far
Drift
It's a boy!
@aaglo
I've meant to fix those descriptions for some time now, but I've been postponing it. I'll promise to do it before final 2.0.
As for the building confusions, it's probably related to a large number of buildings using Palace's pedia entries. I fixed that for this latest patch. I have no idea how their pedia entries got changed to those of palace in the first place, maybe something related to rearranging of the unit list.
As for the race resources being increased... The rally points don't require the resource to be inside city borders, if you meant that. You can build it on a different continent if you like. (it would be logical to require resource inside city borders, but I don't want to restrict the player and the AI like that - especially AI's city placement could create problems)
Thanks for the feedback. Nice to hear you like it.
I've meant to fix those descriptions for some time now, but I've been postponing it. I'll promise to do it before final 2.0.
As for the building confusions, it's probably related to a large number of buildings using Palace's pedia entries. I fixed that for this latest patch. I have no idea how their pedia entries got changed to those of palace in the first place, maybe something related to rearranging of the unit list.
As for the race resources being increased... The rally points don't require the resource to be inside city borders, if you meant that. You can build it on a different continent if you like. (it would be logical to require resource inside city borders, but I don't want to restrict the player and the AI like that - especially AI's city placement could create problems)
Thanks for the feedback. Nice to hear you like it.
I've been playing around in the editor trying to figure out what everything does and stuff, and I've added a couple more resources, like horses, mana crystals, warpstone, potions, saltpeter and graveyards
because I felt like all races could build plenty of stuff but nothing really depended on resources (except for the nodes), so now if the unit rides a horse it needs horses, if it's a humongous demon it needs warpstone, if it knows magic it either needs potions or manacrystals, iron for the iron heavy ships like the fire ship and for cannons, heavy units etc, also saltpeter for cannons and the likes, imo it plays more strategically because now you really need to hunt for resources more, especially if you are undead then you need graveyards for almost every produced unit
most resources become available after some research, like horses after nature III, warpstone after chaos III and so on
I also changed mithril into a strategic resource, now angels need it to be built and other high end units
I hope you don't mind me changing your mod like this, but I just wanted to tell you what I had done, maybe you had some similar ideas but then dismissed them in an earlier version.
because I felt like all races could build plenty of stuff but nothing really depended on resources (except for the nodes), so now if the unit rides a horse it needs horses, if it's a humongous demon it needs warpstone, if it knows magic it either needs potions or manacrystals, iron for the iron heavy ships like the fire ship and for cannons, heavy units etc, also saltpeter for cannons and the likes, imo it plays more strategically because now you really need to hunt for resources more, especially if you are undead then you need graveyards for almost every produced unit
most resources become available after some research, like horses after nature III, warpstone after chaos III and so on
I also changed mithril into a strategic resource, now angels need it to be built and other high end units
I hope you don't mind me changing your mod like this, but I just wanted to tell you what I had done, maybe you had some similar ideas but then dismissed them in an earlier version.
Drift
It's a boy!
You're naturally free to alter the mod in any way you see fit. Just remember that it makes it harder to stay up to date with patches as they often replace the .biq with a new one.
Added requirements for units has been on the table several times. Granted, it would add strategic depth to the game, but I also feel like it might complicate things a bit too much, at least if taken too far. However, several reasonably common strategic resources wouldn't probably break anything. I'll promise to think about it one more time, but my instinct says I won't add any for 2.0.
Just remember that it makes it harder to stay up to date with patches as they often replace the .biq with a new one.Added requirements for units has been on the table several times. Granted, it would add strategic depth to the game, but I also feel like it might complicate things a bit too much, at least if taken too far. However, several reasonably common strategic resources wouldn't probably break anything. I'll promise to think about it one more time, but my instinct says I won't add any for 2.0.
greenman1234
Usless Information King
this mod looks good. i still think wh is better. not saying you did a bad job. it was a good use of your time. p.s im getting crushed in wh so ill just win in your mod !
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