I'd think you could drop min tech time to 4 (this would make researching the optionals more appealing), while using a system similar to the Middle Ages scenario, where the first tech of each age is untradable and much more expensive to those researching outside their specialty. I.E. Life mages get Life Magic I at regular cost, but Death I would cost three times the regular price. After getting through this barrier, Death II could be regular price and tradable. Repeat at Death VI.
Master of Myrror Fantasy Mod 2.0
- Thread starter Drift
- Start date
clearbeard
King
Bezhukov said:
The tech already advances fast enough I think, without dropping the min time. With my expansion I've dropped the min time to 5, simply because there are 25% more techs, and it takes quite a while to research them all at 6 turns each. Most of the time it seems best to steal/browbeat/trade the optionals from the computer factions. The higher cost for different factions seems interesting though, how do you get that to work? I don't recall an option in the editor that can set different costs for different factions.
Norsk_Viking
Warlord
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2005
- Messages
- 107
this looks like warhammer mod
is it same graphics?
is it same graphics?
Steel General
Master of Temporal Fugue
Norsk_Viking said:
Some of the graphics are the same, but it is a completely different mod.
tjedge1
Writer of writerly things
You would have to use the flavor system in the editor. That's about all it's good for.clearbeard said:
I think that all that would be necessary to do that is to give the first level techs the "cannot be traded flag" and make their cost relatively high.
I checked the editor and found that the cost of these entry level techs for each of the special tech trees in the mideveal conquest is around 50, while other techs in those eras cost 20 and 30.
All the flavor thing does is assign relative importance values to each tech for each AI, probably not necessary.
What this would do is mean that each civ would probably spend more time researching up its tech tree before researching any other techs to be able to trade. it would certainly be interesting to try, perhaps not the best in terms of overall gameplay.
I checked the editor and found that the cost of these entry level techs for each of the special tech trees in the mideveal conquest is around 50, while other techs in those eras cost 20 and 30.
All the flavor thing does is assign relative importance values to each tech for each AI, probably not necessary.
What this would do is mean that each civ would probably spend more time researching up its tech tree before researching any other techs to be able to trade. it would certainly be interesting to try, perhaps not the best in terms of overall gameplay.
"The higher cost for different factions seems interesting though, how do you get that to work? I don't recall an option in the editor that can set different costs for different factions"
I'll play around with it and see if I can figure it out. I know it can be done, as the MA scenario that comes with Conquests uses it. If you'd like to see yourself, you could just run the editor on that scenario. I think what it does is make the entry techs untradable and expensive, then give them free to the appropriate faction. So Life mages would get Life I, VI, and XI free, while needing to research the corresponding Death, Nature, and Chaos techs themselves at a higher price.
I'm currently finishing up my first Master of Myrror game as Merlin (excellent UU, BTW), and there is a lot to like, especially for an old Master of Magic fan like me.
Strengths:
1. The whole Elves, Dwarves, etc.. system is outstanding. Lots of strategic depth and potential to do even more. Pls retain the rarity of these resources.
2. Good variety among factions across a wide range of variables, creating good replayability potential.
3. Actually interesting late game wonders, such as Bind the Sea, that are worth building.
Areas for improvement:
1. Tedious late game. You address this with the high-cost, high-HP later units, but this should be extended to racial units (up the HP's, tone down the spawning frequency) and artillery (up shield cost and rate of fire). Late game turns take forever to move the 200-300 units. Same phenomenon with the 6 turn research min. In my game, the AI is not researching the racial optionals, so I've had to sidetrack to pick up those to finish out a game I largely had won ten hours ago. Yes, I could have skipped them, but then victory might have taken even longer, as those high-level optional racial rally points are quite powerful. Also noticed the AI has trouble fully utilizing them.
2. Limited government options. Nice variety among the available governments, but no opportunities for strategic decision-making in current system.
3. Non-aligned techs are too easy to get. Life mages should have to sweat to work death magic, and vice versa. Suggested means for implementing this above.
All that said, very enjoyable mod - thanks for all the hard work.
I'll play around with it and see if I can figure it out. I know it can be done, as the MA scenario that comes with Conquests uses it. If you'd like to see yourself, you could just run the editor on that scenario. I think what it does is make the entry techs untradable and expensive, then give them free to the appropriate faction. So Life mages would get Life I, VI, and XI free, while needing to research the corresponding Death, Nature, and Chaos techs themselves at a higher price.
I'm currently finishing up my first Master of Myrror game as Merlin (excellent UU, BTW), and there is a lot to like, especially for an old Master of Magic fan like me.
Strengths:
1. The whole Elves, Dwarves, etc.. system is outstanding. Lots of strategic depth and potential to do even more. Pls retain the rarity of these resources.
2. Good variety among factions across a wide range of variables, creating good replayability potential.
3. Actually interesting late game wonders, such as Bind the Sea, that are worth building.
Areas for improvement:
1. Tedious late game. You address this with the high-cost, high-HP later units, but this should be extended to racial units (up the HP's, tone down the spawning frequency) and artillery (up shield cost and rate of fire). Late game turns take forever to move the 200-300 units. Same phenomenon with the 6 turn research min. In my game, the AI is not researching the racial optionals, so I've had to sidetrack to pick up those to finish out a game I largely had won ten hours ago. Yes, I could have skipped them, but then victory might have taken even longer, as those high-level optional racial rally points are quite powerful. Also noticed the AI has trouble fully utilizing them.
2. Limited government options. Nice variety among the available governments, but no opportunities for strategic decision-making in current system.
3. Non-aligned techs are too easy to get. Life mages should have to sweat to work death magic, and vice versa. Suggested means for implementing this above.
All that said, very enjoyable mod - thanks for all the hard work.
Cabbit
Part-time Spaceship
I had a crash when I built the essence of death,
It was something like:
missing wonder splash: ... palace
If you want the exact filename I can load the last autosave and crash it again.
I think I have the latest patches.
By the way, even though most of Bezhukov's suggestions are good in princeple, I don't think that there is any serious chance that they can be implemented in practice. If I'm not mistaken, the flavor system is already used to encourage research in the faction's mage-type (life, death, etc.). It seems to generally make sense for a player to research his own magic type and then find somebody to trade for the other magic types. As a given-type mage, the main thing you get from the other magic branches is the ability to build certain improvements, gain worker actions, and get race unit rally pionts. In order to get you "mage-type" units you have research your own magic type. I think this represents to some degree the specialization of magic already.
Now if the tech system was reworked to have specialties in one only your own magic type, I think this would be annoying in various ways.
If you keep the current tech tree, era advancement will become a real pain becuase you will spend forever researching the base techs for other mage types besides your own.
So the alternative is to completely rework the tech tree. Which is not neccessarily a bad idea, but I personally think the current one works, and since Drift is busy enough I think that this is an unreasonable request.
As far as the govenment goes, the way this mod is set up you HAVE to stay in one government or else you won't be able to have unique structures to a certain mage type. Some other faction strengths/weaknesses are built into the set government as well. With this mod, you can't really look as the governments as real governments but rather as representative of the kind of magic your mage specializes in.
It was something like:
missing wonder splash: ... palace
If you want the exact filename I can load the last autosave and crash it again.
I think I have the latest patches.
By the way, even though most of Bezhukov's suggestions are good in princeple, I don't think that there is any serious chance that they can be implemented in practice. If I'm not mistaken, the flavor system is already used to encourage research in the faction's mage-type (life, death, etc.). It seems to generally make sense for a player to research his own magic type and then find somebody to trade for the other magic types. As a given-type mage, the main thing you get from the other magic branches is the ability to build certain improvements, gain worker actions, and get race unit rally pionts. In order to get you "mage-type" units you have research your own magic type. I think this represents to some degree the specialization of magic already.
Now if the tech system was reworked to have specialties in one only your own magic type, I think this would be annoying in various ways.
If you keep the current tech tree, era advancement will become a real pain becuase you will spend forever researching the base techs for other mage types besides your own.
So the alternative is to completely rework the tech tree. Which is not neccessarily a bad idea, but I personally think the current one works, and since Drift is busy enough I think that this is an unreasonable request.
As far as the govenment goes, the way this mod is set up you HAVE to stay in one government or else you won't be able to have unique structures to a certain mage type. Some other faction strengths/weaknesses are built into the set government as well. With this mod, you can't really look as the governments as real governments but rather as representative of the kind of magic your mage specializes in.
Drift
It's a boy!
Thanks everyone for the feedback. I'm currently very busy as we just moved into a new apartment and my studies keep me extremely occupied. Therefore I don't have the time to reply in depth at the moment. I will read everything though and address suggestions and bug reports when I have the time to do so. Thank you, and keep the feedback coming.
(I could try to squeeze out a new patch to address the essence of death causing a crash. It's due to it having probably the wrong pedia entry. I'm starting to regret rearranging the unit list as it has caused loads of trouble.)
(I could try to squeeze out a new patch to address the essence of death causing a crash. It's due to it having probably the wrong pedia entry. I'm starting to regret rearranging the unit list as it has caused loads of trouble.)
tjedge1
Writer of writerly things
That's exactly why I have avoided that. Instead I use a spreadsheet. It has all the catagories and then I fill them in and organize them by flags then reset them in the order they are in the mod. Very confusing otherwise trying to find units. Easy to forget some too.
aaglo
Furioso!
hmmm... I think I've built the essence of death, and I had no problems with it - I think I'll have to check that tonight... 
Cabbit
Part-time Spaceship
Here's the exact file; I think this has to be from the essence of death becuase when I changed production to a granary in the last autosave the game didn't crash.
Drift
It's a boy!
Cabbit, you don't have the latest patch (or you are playing a game that was started with the previous one)
A lot of buildings and wonders used palace's pedia entries for some mysterious reason, which made the game look for a wonder splash for palace when you built them. This has been taken care of in the latest patch.
This was a relief. I really didn't want to patch up the game again.
A lot of buildings and wonders used palace's pedia entries for some mysterious reason, which made the game look for a wonder splash for palace when you built them. This has been taken care of in the latest patch.
This was a relief. I really didn't want to patch up the game again.
azzacanth
Warlord
I just loaded the most recent patches up.. not sure what version I had before but I did have a version of MoM on here previously. (suggestion: start including version numbers in the description panel of your mod - the part visible from the civ-content menu...)
I play for a turn, plant my city, go to do my tech tree and get this
EDIT: Nevermind, I just discovered there are two different files, I must've loaded the wrong one. (MOM instead of Master of Myrror)
Ok, trying again...after wasting half an hour redownloading the original incase I had a corrupt install
EDIT again: I tried the second file and it too crashed. so I deleted everything and reinstalled. Iguess that half hour was not wasted. we'll see how it goes
I play for a turn, plant my city, go to do my tech tree and get this
EDIT: Nevermind, I just discovered there are two different files, I must've loaded the wrong one. (MOM instead of Master of Myrror)
Ok, trying again...after wasting half an hour redownloading the original incase I had a corrupt install
EDIT again: I tried the second file and it too crashed. so I deleted everything and reinstalled. Iguess that half hour was not wasted. we'll see how it goes
Cabbit
Part-time Spaceship
Sorry about that. I downloaded the patch files about a day before I installed them. When I did install them I must have extracted the files in the wrong order. After re-installing the latest patch everything appears to be going smooth so far.
aaglo
Furioso!
I've noticed, that many units made by kinboat (all the gnolls, the new spiders) don't have any sounds (which is quite disturbing at times...)
Drift
It's a boy!
@aaglo
Yeah, that's one of those things that has been on my to do -list for ages. I suck at adding sounds for units, it takes time and it's tedious business. With all my other duties at the moment, I can't promise that I'll be able to add those unit sounds. If someone who is good at that stuff wants to help, I'm more than willing to accept.
Yeah, that's one of those things that has been on my to do -list for ages. I suck at adding sounds for units, it takes time and it's tedious business. With all my other duties at the moment, I can't promise that I'll be able to add those unit sounds.
If someone who is good at that stuff wants to help, I'm more than willing to accept.Similar threads
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