Matching REF and other initial questions

[Sporally]

After getting the game i've played it for around 12-15 hours now or so. I haven't got my first independence yet but now it's my only objective since my settlement (running only one settlement for easier defence) but now i have a handful of questions - sorry if they have been answered, but i couldn't find exact answers to my questions.

Main questions:
REF
OK, so from reading other posts i learned that the REF increases when the king is angry with you and if you are increasing your military size. What other factors, if any, than your military size, Rebel Sentiment and king's happiness plays a role here...

1) I am producing tons of weapons each turn and sell them in Europe. Does more weapons in Europe/England mean more REF?

2) Earning tons of gold from selling goods and getting treasure i am now playing tons of gold in taxes - does the amount of taxes you pay make it easier for the king to build REF?

3) If i can't beat his army since he is building much faster than me, is it possible for me to increase my navy size and beat his navy, or will he also increase the navy size when i do it? I don't think he has increased it so far in the game, but i haven't built any military ships yet.

4) In case i get the king to become happy again (didn't know he dislike the indians i had a defensive treaty with), will it be possible for me to build an army great than the REF? I know i can leave weapons and horsens on ships and build all my military in one turn, but without using that tactic?

Other questions
5) Is it possible to see when i get a converted indian? My rebel sentiment won't increase in general since i get my converted indians all the time.

6) Is the time between two converted indians from the same settlement the same or is it decreased the more converted indians i get?



I guess that was all my questions so far - really looking forward to your answers. BTW: Colonization is great in my opinion

 

[Aythanaeus]

Well I'm in the same boat as you with having played a fair amount so far without a victory.

1) I don't think it makes any difference myself but my own personal strategy is to simply stockpile weapons. If I get too many I ship them off to other colonies. I never ever sell them to natives. Ever. And I can make more money selling cigars or coats than guns so I don't see guns as being a viable commodity.

2) I played a game in which I was pretty much bankrupt the whole game (ie. my tribute were very low and I wasn't selling much in Europe) yet my King had no qualms with arbitrarily increasing his revolutionary forces.

3) I have yet to beat his land forces too! The first time I played it seems like I devoted everything I had to my navy but neglected to realize that Man O' Wars snort frigates before going out for a night on the town. I was infuriated. How do ships of the line stack up to man o wars? They are huge resource hogs!

4) I was wondering about that too. Though I really don't worry much about my King's attitude towards me... It's usually a given he'll be nasty.

5) I don't think so. Also watch your troop levels in relation to liberty bells. I just had a post in which my towns all had 100% rebel sentiment yet my overall was stuck at 30%. I neglected to realize that all troops are loyal to the king and so having a large army can really screw your . .. .. .. . up!

6) I don't think it's increased or decreased, the flow seems pretty level to me. I could be wrong though.

 

[dalgo]

I can't answer all your questions but I understand the size of the REF is based almost entirely on your Rebel Sentiment %. The more your citizens desire independence the more troops the King adds to the REF. The actual size of your own military or the amount of trading you do has no effect on it.

However don't bother trying to match the number of troops that you can see on the screen, they don't all arrive at once (thank goodness) so you can pick them off a few at a time. In my present game I have just declared independence with 4 soldiers, 81 dragoons, 9 cannons and 10 warships = 104 units. The king has 547/155/131/93 = 926 units. 9 to 1 seems pretty fair odds to me. In the first two turns after independence he landed 80 troops and I eliminated them all for only one loss. However most of my men are now in hospital and another 40 just landed. Should be fun!

I haven't tried it but others have posted naval victories. If you can eliminate all his ships he can't send any more troops and you win.

 

[player1 fanatic]

I can't answer all your questions but I understand the size of the REF is based almost entirely on your Rebel Sentiment %. The more your citizens desire independence the more troops the King adds to the REF. The actual size of your own military or the amount of trading you do has no effect on it.

Not completly true.
It's actually based on liberty bells generation over time.
So if you have small empire, the smaller the REF will be (less bells needed to get 50% rebel sentiment).

Also, every unit you buy from king's directly (50% discount), factors a lot to REF increase.

 

[SerriaFox]

Making a liberty bell = increase in REF

REF is not link to Rebel Sentiment, which decays over time, but to liberty bell production totals.

DO NOT MAKE LIBERTY BELL UNTIL YOU ARE READY TO START THE WAR, unless of course your playing in a mod version of the game.

 

[Andraeianus I]

Making a liberty bell = increase in REF

REF is not link to Rebel Sentiment, which decays over time, but to liberty bell production totals.

DO NOT MAKE LIBERTY BELL UNTIL YOU ARE READY TO START THE WAR, unless of course your playing in a mod version of the game.

I disagree. To get founding fathers one needs to produce political points (=liberty bells). To have some founding fathers early can give your nation a significant boost which can overcome the stronger REF.

 

[GamblerTuba2]

I am not really an expert or even close but I have played through a couple games and read up a lot on these forums.


REF
To reinforce what others have said. The REF increases by bells produced. More bells means bigger REF. Producing bells over the life of your colony can lead to a very large REF. The easiest (and arguably cheesiest) strategy is to hold off on producing bells until you are ready to fight. Build your newspapers and then drop 3 elder statesmen in each town hall to reach your 50% ASAP. You may have a hard time reaching your 50% threshhold with a single settlement. I would suggest building at least two inland settlements but keep population low. Only worry about building printing press and newspapers and use them to increase bell production. You want to produce bells as fast as possible to limit REF.

Requesting military assistance from king will also increase REF and a poor attitude may increase the rate of REF growth but total bells produced is the major concern.

1) Selling guns to Europe will not increase REF. More goods sold of any type leads to higher taxes. I would stockpile those guns in wagons or ships if necessary to make sure you have enough for each and every colonist.

2) No. Taxes just eat your profits.

3) It is very difficult to beat the REF at sea. You would need to make that your primary goal from almost the beginning of the game. Frigates and privateers are next to useless and your ships of the line need to outnumber the man o wars to hav a chance.

4) The size of your army has no direct effect on REF. Only requesting military aid from the king. There is no reason to have a standing army in this game. Unless you cannot feed the soldiers, put them to work! Spend your free money on cannons and make sure you have enough guns to arm everyone. You will find it difficult to defend your cities and may have to retreat to the hills and beat the REF by counterattacking his units. Cannons will help immensely if you counterattack while the REF are in a city.

Again REF builds up with bell production. Do not go crazy with bells until you are read for DoI. If you want founding fathers, then build a city specifically to produce political points. Plop a few lumberjacks and carpenters in there and you get the political points for FF without increasing REF.

Other questions
5) Not that i am aware of. You can always gift those guys to another player or tribe. Population control is important when approaching DoI. Some players even delete extra units to achieve the 50% rebel sentiment faster. Rebel % is based on liberty bells/total population including every unit in or out of cities.

6) Could not tell you. Honestly, I don't make too many missionaries.

 

[SerriaFox]

I disagree. To get founding fathers one needs to produce political points (=liberty bells). To have some founding fathers early can give your nation a significant boost which can overcome the stronger REF.

You can "build" political points with a carpenter, and not get the ridiculues sized REF that come from lots of liberty bell production.

 

[Sporally]

OK, here's my strategy since i have a great Rebel Sentiment i my current game. BEATING HIS NAVY As i wrote in my first post (although i've stated a new game before i read about this Rebel Sentiment that you guys warn me about ), i will make so much gold so that i can simply buy an entire navy in one turn that is greater than his - just 4 ships, so let's say 8 ships - that should do it. I don't know if he could increase REF in the very same turn as i DoI, buy my ships and set sail for MY new America. Can you guys tell me? And are they arriving before i reach America? I recall in the old Colonization that they would land in the exact same turn you DoI. Is that any difference now in Civ4Colo?

 

[Desert-Fox]

OK, here's my strategy since i have a great Rebel Sentiment i my current game. BEATING HIS NAVY As i wrote in my first post (although i've stated a new game before i read about this Rebel Sentiment that you guys warn me about ), i will make so much gold so that i can simply buy an entire navy in one turn that is greater than his - just 4 ships, so let's say 8 ships - that should do it. I don't know if he could increase REF in the very same turn as i DoI, buy my ships and set sail for MY new America. Can you guys tell me? And are they arriving before i reach America? I recall in the old Colonization that they would land in the exact same turn you DoI. Is that any difference now in Civ4Colo?

I've won 2 games by killing of king's navy. You just need some luck that he wouldn't add a lot of Man-o-Wars into REF. Also once I attached my GG into Ship of the Line and with combat 6 + some Rebel sentiment bonus I sunk all ships by one SoL.

 

[Sporally]

SoL?

OK, so the number of ships he has doesn't necessary have to be MoWs only? He has 27 ships by now, and the REF is accelerating like cracy. So i guess you can beat it to the new world before his navy does if you set sail in the same turn as you DoI?

 

[HermannLombard]

SoL?

OK, so the number of ships he has doesn't necessary have to be MoWs only?

SoL = Ship out of Luck

I think all his ships will be MoW.

 

[Sporally]

Necromancing, I know. Don't think I ever got that latest comment..

2014, and the game's still great! A YouTube "Let's play" and ill in bed makes it a good game while waiting for Civ5BE