Max science

[Rodgers]

It's been a while since I posted in this forum so forgive me if this has already been dealt with.

What is the shortest time you've manged between discoveries? I got up to one every two turns - is one EVERY turn possible?

 

[duke o' york]

Yes, one every turn is definitely possible, with the SSC and some good trade routes. Later in the game, the cost in beakers is often more than the SSC and other cities can produce in a turn so you'll need to use caravans to top up the science. For each caravan delivered, you get a bonus amount of gold and a bonus amount of beakers equal to the gold. You can therefore deliver caravans until you have enough beakers and then stop as you cannot discover a tech at any other time than during your "building turn". That is, the AI runs through all your cities and calculates how much gold and science each one is producing, calculates the shield output and adds it to the item in production. This is when you'll get the messages saying "Sheffield has built a decent video shop" etc. Once the AI has processed all your cities and allows you to start moving units, you will not be allowed to discover any more techs until the next time around so that any beakers from caravan deliveries after you have reached the number of beakers required will be wasted.
Basically you will need a SSC in a Democracy with:
Colossus, Library, University, Isaac Newton's College, Coprnicus' Observatory, Research Lab, Superhighways and Airport in a democracy to get a whacking number of beakers per turn. Then try delivering freights from other cities also with superhighways and airports (preferably demanded goods but not necessarily) and you will start piling up the cash and science beakers faster than you can spend it. Democracy is not necessary, but without it you'll need to celebrate in Communism or Fundy to get the same results.
That is a basic guide, but starlifter will be able to tell you more in more words.

 

[Rodgers]

"Sheffield has built a decent video shop"



Thanks - just started playing again so I'm a bit rusty. Didn't realise that caravans added to science as well as shields

 

[Sodak]

Even if you don't manage to build the fully loaded SSC (described by the duke), caravans can make all the difference. At another extreme, even with science set at 0% and a single Einstein in your empire, caravans can bring you a tech every few turns (late game, many cities). As the duke points out, you must pay attention to science progression if you choose to do this, tho.

Caravans rule!

 

[Kev]

Call me crazy, but I DO think that with enough science and caravans that you CAN discover more than one tech per turn.

As duke deferrs, so does Kev. Starlifter is the Sultan of Tech and can give you that breakdown to the very last alogrithm.

 

[floppa21]

Yup, you can get more than one tech per turn but I can't do it often... Unless I'm playin the old Chieftain level. It's a little harder, I can do it maybe two turns in a row on Prince and then never again. King, pfft.

 

[Rowan]

I uaually build lots of food caravans and deliver them to the science city[which is also the one that builds all my wonders];is this what you folks mean by "caravans",thanks.
[dance]

 

[starlifter]

Yes, one every turn is definitely possible, with the SSC and some good trade routes.

One per turn should be demanded, at about RR or so, at deity... esp. on a large map. The SSC is nice, but also not necessary for one per turn, as long as you do have the good trade routes. Freight and caravans alone, if aggressively delivered (and defended) can carry one advance per turn. Ship delivery to foriegn empires is most rewarding. Ship chaining can allow use of the JIT (Just In Time) management theory, btw.

What is the shortest time you've manged between discoveries? I got up to one every two turns - is one EVERY turn possible?

As a minimum, I expect one turn per advance in every "regular" game. I've been able to sustain up to 6 (or maybe 7) advances per turn in a GOTM last year, durint the late tech tree/early FT range. One advance due to Freight, and the rest due to research.... but you need to play a non-purple civ, keep the puple civ alive, be supreme, and gift the purple civ to max your research rate.

In GOTM 18, I'm just past AD 1000, and have been sustaining one advance per turn, each turn, and every single turn, for over 300 years. This is in a Fundy goct, with just a single Scientist (2 beakers, in Fundy). The 1800 beakers for an advance come from freight. The scientists puts it over the top.

Caravans rule!

Dat dey dooo! With 30+ Triremes (or caravels).




For big bonuses, remeber to additional things to Duke's post....

1. Get the max distance (diagonals are 1.5) between source and destination cities.

2. Get the max base arrows in the city(s). If your Colossus city is doing it's job, this base should be 70+ (subtract the 3 route values to get base, or count the individual arrows). Since no other pre-flight city is near this amount, the dominant factor is the Colossus city trade arrows. It does not make much difference whether your destination city has 2 arrows or 10 arrows.... so go for a foriegn target to avoid getting your valuse cut by 50% for trading with yourself.


You can follow links from my sig block (go to PD) for lots more trade discussion .

 

[ferenginar]

I have achieved 2 advances per turn well into the 100+ future techs, by the careful use of caravans, but I am reluctant to trade with the AI.

I am fully aware that the bonuses are greater, but what bothers me is not owning the other end of the trade route, its not just the loss of those trade arrows that can be as many as 20 per turn, its that the AI is gaining them.

With this happening over a large number of turns, does it not outweigh the additional bonus?

ferenginar 96

 

[duke o' york]

That is the point of the OCC though - you have to trade with other civs but concentrate on your techs so you only go for the ones you actually need and are not throwing away loads of trade on things like Amphibious Warfare. If you have the SSC wonders then only the presence of the Colossus will benefit the other civ, but you'll get far more science for each caravan delivered so it is definitely worth it! In games of normal Civ, I too am wary of giving the AI extra arrows but will take account of the situation in each case. By the end of the game, your cities will be so much better developed than the AI that it is no longer worth it to trade with them. You can just airlift your freights into the high trade cities and make thousands every turn.

 

[starlifter]

its not just the loss of those trade arrows that can be as many as 20 per turn, its that the AI is gaining them.

You are about to enter the realm of really advanced strategy. Think about where those arrows go... one of 3 places:

1. AI Gold.
2. AI science.
3. AI Luxuries.

The human wins in all 3 cases. The more gold the AI gets, the more you get when you take their cities. If you are on par with science, you simply "direct" the AI to reseach what you desire, and bump your own taxes.... or maybe you just increase your science output by letting the AI augment your research. And if the arrows go to AI luxuries (ep. Rep/Dem), then the AI city may celebrate and grow... which means more improvements, mor gold, and better cities for the human!

Shoot, I like the AI to get all they can. Unfortunately, I often have killed their capital, and they are in Monarchy or Republic, and have high corruption, and so lose a lot of that trade that should be used to improve the cities that they are "holding" for me while I get around to capturing them .

So I like the AI getting all the trade they can. Plus, I like capturing their cities with 3 trade routes intact, so my "new" cities can celebrate from the turn after I acquire them!!