Maximum science

[Garvarg]

What is the better way to get "science"?
I usually just build as many cities outside my core as I can, and set them all to "wealth",
but I have noticed that some players prefer to grow there cities and irrigate everything and set all the extra people to "science guys".
I would have thought with all the corruption in these cities it is not worth letting them to grow, and would it be better as max size 6,12 or build hospitals ?
Thanks.

 

[TheOverseer714]

Science farms are the best way, many 5-6 and 12 pop towns crammed in highly corrupted areas. Forget hospitals, unless the AI builds some for you.

 

[vmxa]

The reason we use scientist is that the three breakers, in C3C, are not affected by corruption.

 

[kirie]

did you use goverment or manually

I often get civil disorder at earlier time, so I just set it to auto for the entire game

 

[Raliuven]

Governors are not the greatest evil in the game IMO, but you still get the same poor AI results. Besides, to be truly efficient, you will need to MM to get every fpt, spt, gpt possible to get you that much further ahead. A governor doesn't do that and since it 'divines' the unhappiness of your people, it actually corrects the problem 1 turn before it needs to address the problem. Thus, the governor makes a clown (it never uses the luxury slider) and that clown makes no spt or gpt on the round it is created. If you are manually handling it, then you get that unhappy citizen to work that round, earning spt and gpt for that one round before needing to fix the problem.

 

[kirie]

but I always get civil disorder, especially my settler factory, because it hit maximum population fast and at earlier game I unable to build building such temple or cathedral because I always build settler

how can I know civil disorder will happen, does I need to calculate unhappiness face manually?

 

[Raliuven]

Civil disorder occurs when you have more unhappy faces than you have happy faces. So if a city has 2 unhappy faces, you need at least 2 happy faces to balance it out. It doesn't matter how many 'content' faces you have - they are neutral. So are specialists - in fact, in some cases, you make enough specialists to remove the unhappy faces and still have a well functioning city. Taxmen and scientists can be just as effective as a clown. And, of course, use the luxury slider. Tough lesson, but the productivity lost in your towns - especially in the first 100+ turns is deadly compared to a few lost gpt dedicated to entertainment.

It can be tricky to control when you start out, then it becomes second nature. Some things to watch out for:

Always check happiness at the end of the round - before moving on.

If you move troops out of a city, you could lose 'happy faces' from MPs.

Always check happiness when a city grows. You will get 1 round to correct the problem. If you have an imbalance when you move to the next turn, you will have civil disorder.

If you move citizens to unimproved tiles, they may complain and become unhappy - so if you are MM your cities, becareful about this balance. Another reason why it is good to check at the end of your round, after you have made all your changes.

Check every round for unhappiness. I just scan the F1 screen for the balance - that's the easiest way for me - I don't use any support programs or anything.

Factors include war weariness - against if you are the agressor, but also reverse WW if you are the defender - but if you sign a peace treaty, you could lose the reverse WW and cause unhappiness because you are at peace! (well, you don't actually create unhappiness, it is just no longer 'forgiven')

Bottom line, I always check at the beginning and end of each turn. Sounds tedious, but I find the game has much more value now that I do it hands-on. Of course, I love to move each and every worker too.

 

[Garvarg]

Ok, so I tried this out on a small map with one AI. No surprise that it worked but it took me a a couple of cities to try and test with pops of 4,6,8,10 and 12. So if my city has more food than it needs, I just make them all science geeks. Got it.

So do you recommend irrigating or mining all the city blocks? Irrigating seems to provide the most "spare" people, but what besides markets, banks, library and universities should I be building in my core, outer cities, and far flung villages.

Sorry if these seem like dumb questions, but my preferred method of science usually involves pointy sticks!

Thanks

 

[Aabraxan]

Ok, so I tried this out on a small map with one AI. No surprise that it worked but it took me a a couple of cities to try and test with pops of 4,6,8,10 and 12. So if my city has more food than it needs, I just make them all science geeks. Got it.

Not exactly. In your core cities, you will probably want all citizens working the tiles. A taxman produces gold, only gold, & eats food. A scientist produces beakers, only beakers & eats food. A laborer produces (potentially) food, gold, and shields, and eats food. In your core, where corruption and waste are low, a laborer in a fully improved city can outproduce a specialist. Once you get out to the hinterlands, where corruption eats up most of the gold and shields, that's where you really want to focus on specialists. Neither food nor specialist output is affected by corruption or waste.

So do you recommend irrigating or mining all the city blocks? Irrigating seems to provide the most "spare" people, but what besides markets, banks, library and universities should I be building in my core, outer cities, and far flung villages.

A good rule of thumb, especially while you're in despotism, is: Mine green, irrigate brown. That rule goes out the window when it comes to food bonuses, but is otherwise pretty handy. Because of the despotism penalty, that rule saves lots of what would otherwise be wasted worker turns.

Ah, what to build . . . There's an article in my signature called "Multiplier Buildings: A Practical Primer." That might help you sort out what needs to be built and where. What you need, though, depends on how you want to win. For a conquest/domination victory, markets, libraries and raxes in the core. In the semi-core, add a few courthouses. In the farmlands, nothing. The question is not what a city needs. A city can survive with nothing. The question is: What is it that the empire needs for the city to have.

Sorry if these seem like dumb questions, but my preferred method of science usually involves pointy sticks!

Thanks

Pointy Stick Research has a long and hallowed tradition around here, and these are no dumber than the questions I asked when I first got here.

 

[CommandoBob]

Some things to watch out for:

Always check happiness at the end of the round - before moving on.

If you move troops out of a city, you could lose 'happy faces' from MPs.

Always check happiness when a city grows. You will get 1 round to correct the problem. If you have an imbalance when you move to the next turn, you will have civil disorder.

If you move citizens to unimproved tiles, they may complain and become unhappy - so if you are MM your cities, becareful about this balance. Another reason why it is good to check at the end of your round, after you have made all your changes.

Check every round for unhappiness. I just scan the F1 screen for the balance - that's the easiest way for me - I don't use any support programs or anything.

No support program?



Both MapStat and CivAssistII will check for unhappiness for you and let you know about unhappiness issues.

MapStat will reload/recheck whenever you save the game; I'm pretty sure CivAssistII does the same.

My PC crashes more than I want. As a result, to avoid losing too much time and effort, I save at the start of the turn (automatic unhappiness check and an early chance to fix it) and generally at the end of the turn, too.