Mercenaries

[Cimbri]

Maybe this sort of wish have been posted before, I dunno…

I got this idea when selling workers to other civs (when workers are present in your capitol, you can sell them, or give them away to other factions)

I could be a nifty feature if you could sell, or even better, lend some of your fine troops to other civs or allies *cough* Foederati *cough*…

How I would love to dictate peace terms and crave a good number of units of an enemy army/navy handed over as mercenaries…

What do you guys think?

 

[Mr Black]

UNIT TRADING!!!

Yes, it was done in Civ2 and left out in Civ3

But there should be a limit to how many units, one can give out in a turn. So as not to overwhelm the AI, with a huge BILL.

 

[Inhalaattori]

Hmm. It would be fun if you could also give "military support" to your allies. Like USSR gave resources and weapondry to North- Vietnam and North- Korea during the Cold War, still not going actual war against USA. For example, you could give some of your troops for your allies to some amount of time.

 

[Ian Beale]

Yep i like the idea. Be good if you could lend units for say 5 turns and if they aren't destroyed they are returned. This really would help you to be a proper ally rather than giving the equivalent to your best wishes. Don't know about a limit but you cold donate units if your ally wasn't able to pay. What would happen if you were lending/ selling units to a civ and they declare war on you? Or does that simply rule out the idea of lending units?

 

[Xen]

I love it finally I could have both legiones AND hoplites....

but lets take it a step further shall we?

-the mercenaries will not attack there home nation
-they will defend from there own nations troops, if attacked first
-cost 1 gold in support no matter what government you're in

I think those are some good ideas, but I'm 100% behind this idea all the way

 

[Ian Beale]

Yep you've hit the nail on the head there! Your suggestion makes lending units a possibility.

 

[Cimbri]

Prior to Alexander’s conquest of Persia, mercenaries in Satrapal Persian service were frequently not hired on an individual contract, but instead hired on loan from the Greek city-states.
In the 350’s the Satrapies was finding it difficult to find sufficient mercenaries on the open market, and the city-states was finding it difficult to support their standing armies (their Epilektoi – or ‘picked troops’)
The obvious solution was for the city-states to make their standing army available to the Persians. This relieved to city-states of the expense of maintaining the army, and the Persians was provided with trained and well disciplined soldiers serving under their own Greek officers.

This is a good example; another good example is the Romans employing various ‘special’ mercenaries: Germanic heavy cavalry, Moorish light cavalry, Syrian archers etc.


Cimbri

 

[Furius]

You shouldn't be able to borrow units if you don't have the associated tech, after all things break and your Civ would have to know how to fix them (which dosen't rule borrowing UU's out, you'd just need the tech prerequisite).

 

[Globetrotter]

It had been mentionned i believe some time back in another thread under general discussions. i tried to find it, but there were so many threads. Still, i believe that "lending" or "selling" troops could be quite fun. But beware it that AI declares war on you afterwards...

 

[Pembroke]

Found it: it was in the C3C sub forum under this in a thread named "Weapons trading". Finding anything without the forum search is truly a pain...

Mercenaries

By moving military units into your capital you are able to rent them as a mercenary force to foreign civs in the trade negotiation window. A mercenary deal lasts for 20 turns and if there are units left (see below) at that point they are automatically returned to your capital.

A mercenary unit is in the full control of the receiving civ as long as the deal lasts with the sole exception that it won't attack against its own civ. If a war breaks out between the two civs the mercenary deal is automatically broken with the civ who declared war getting a reputation hit.

The original civ owning the unit pays its upkeep costs if any. Of course, the upkeep costs will usually just be transferred to the rent price. This is mainly to avoid the disbanding problems when there's no gold left to pay for the unit upkeep. The real world explanation is that the owning civ equips the troops (upkeep cost) and the civ that rents them pays a packet price for it.

When a mercenary unit does battle it fights until it is reduced to 1 hit point. At that point it has had enough and surrenders. Afterall it's just a business deal for them and not exactly their war. When a mercenary unit surrenders the owning civ pays X gold as ransom and the red lined unit is returned to its capital. If the owning civ doesn't have the gold then too bad and the unit is disbanded.

The surrender and ransom reflect the lower morale of mercenary troops (effectively a -1hp penalty) and it also eliminates the possible "pseudo mercenary deal" abuse in multiplayer games: two humans switching their troops with each other to get an "instant teleport back when wounded" military.

As the price of the mercenary deal is negotiable it allows you to help other civs without going to war yourself by just giving the mercs for 20 turns as a gift. In fact that would even allow some cold war style things: Aztecs and Zulus fight it out while America equips the one and Russia the other...

 

[Cimbri]

@Padma: Thanx for moving it

@Pembroke: I love the cold war idea. Sometimes I 'help' minor civilizations fight my enemy by paying them. This mercenary consept would be a great feature. A lot better than spending money

 

[steviejay]

I like the idea of forcing the AI to give you their units in a peace settlement. The Germans were forced to give up more or less all their fleet to the British at the end of WW1, true the Germans then scuttled their fleet at Scapa Flow to stop them being used by the Brits, but the concept is still sound. I want to steal units from Civ's but you'd have to have a cap on it or something, you can't make them too weak by forcing them to leave cities unprotected or something like that

 

[Mr. Dictator]

do you think they should go back to their homenation after a war or become rouges (Barbarians).

hey you should be able to pay barbarians in the Ancient and Medieval Ages to attack another civ, for a price, but of course the little warriors would probably lose.

 

[Xen]

@ pembroke- what happens if CivA lends civB a unit, even a UU (wouldnt trigger golden age though), and then civA is conqoured- dose civB get to keep those units- i think they should....

 

[Pembroke]

Didn't think of that. The simplest solution would probably be that they just vanish because currently that's what happens to any trade deal where the participating civ gets wiped out. In this case it would be a nice touch if they, like you suggest, switched their allegiance to the other civ.

You know, "the last remnants of a lost civilization".

Their new owning civ shouldn't be able to make more of them, though. When they are gone they are gone.

 

[Ian Beale]

Don't like the idea of giving land units to opposing civs. Naval units and air or naval bases sound good though.

 

[Tathlum]

Love the idea, as to not wanting it to apply to land units why not? Greek Mercenaries kept the Persians going, not the pathetic immortals, my ancestors fought for the Romans, The Carthaginians, The British, The French etc. For modern times it simulates "military advisors" etc, and if you keep the idea of keeping the units after their "home" Civilisation dies you get "free" French and Polish units fighting to free their homelands etc, Whats not to Love?

 

[Ian Beale]

Well to sign a peace treaty i'd never give away my land units. The North Koreans wouldn't hand over some of their troops to get peace? Or am i misunderstanding your point?

 

[Tathlum]

Sure might seem a little weird nowadays but theres plenty of historical precedent. Republican Rome made treaties with their italian conquests whereby their allies had to provide as many infantry to rome as rome did and 3 times the cavalry. Carthage used mercenaries from its conquered lands, as did Persia, Egypt etc.

In fact Persia is a perfect example, the Greek city states were vasals of Persia and provided mercenary troops as a form of tribute. Troops who fought Alexander when he invaded.

Feudal Europe was run on such treaties, Conquered cossacks provided troops for the Tsars, the examples are endless. Sure you dont want to had over troops in a treaty but do you realy want to hand over cities and money?

As for the modern day just look at it as a form of post war alliance, or something the Warsaw pact where the dominant nation controls anothers troops.

I Still this idea.

 

[Ian Beale]

Uhm your arguments are convincing but not for the modern age. Perhaps it could be used for the medieval times?