Message to Firaxis
- Thread starter TETurkhan
- Start date
Masquerouge
Deity
Well to deal with Andorra he has to FIND it first.
I hope he's FIRST in his geography class.
Because being second in history was not an academical breakthrough.
Highergame, a hint : Andorra is not far from Liechtenstein.
I hope he's FIRST in his geography class.
Because being second in history was not an academical breakthrough.
Highergame, a hint : Andorra is not far from Liechtenstein.
Higher Game
National Socialist
Andorra is this region between France and Spain with nothing but monks and nuns 
No one cares about it. It is what is to France as Nebraska is to America.
No one cares about it. It is what is to France as Nebraska is to America.
I can't believe how off topic, yet extremely entertaining this thread is!
Though I think in the end, Higher game might be playing a game on all of us... I wonder if these are his real opinions or if he is merely bent on stirring the pot... His posts almost demand a reply but aside for entertainment value I do not think it is going anywhere...
This all does remind me about my younger brother... he reads a bit of history and figures he knows everything... IF you really want to know history, refer to multiple sources, otherwise the opinion you formulate will be a bias one.
Though I think in the end, Higher game might be playing a game on all of us... I wonder if these are his real opinions or if he is merely bent on stirring the pot... His posts almost demand a reply but aside for entertainment value I do not think it is going anywhere...
This all does remind me about my younger brother... he reads a bit of history and figures he knows everything... IF you really want to know history, refer to multiple sources, otherwise the opinion you formulate will be a bias one.
Masquerouge
Deity
Yes, I have difficulties remembering what we started with.
But I know what keeps me going on !
And as far as Highergame is concerned, you've got to watch out, he's second in his history class. And know where Andorra is !
ok, time for me to leave. Keep the spirit of this thread alive !
But I know what keeps me going on !
And as far as Highergame is concerned, you've got to watch out, he's second in his history class. And know where Andorra is !
ok, time for me to leave. Keep the spirit of this thread alive !
etj4Eagle
ACME Salesman
Originally posted by teturkhan
I can't believe how off topic, yet extremely entertaining this thread is!
Though I think in the end, Higher game might be playing a game on all of us... I wonder if these are his real opinions or if he is merely bent on stirring the pot... His posts almost demand a reply but aside for entertainment value I do not think it is going anywhere...
I know what you mean. Unfortunately I have seen enough sufficiently ignorant people that I can't just write him off as a troll. Though at the same time some of his later posts may be more troll than real opinions, especially that last one about respecting the greatness in other countries infringes on the US's sovereignty.
I did know a person in college who did like staking out contrary positions just for the heck of it, and I am thinking higher game may be there. His initial posts were reasonable even if mis-informed. However, one would expect upon seeing evidence to either accept (or research), instead of staking out even more ridiculous positions.
And at least in the beginning the off topic part of this thread was quite educational as well, learned some new things myself.
Ozymandius
Prince
Heinlein once wrote:
"never underestimate the power of human stupidity."
Is it Mad's line "Ignorance is bliss" which makes some people obviously happy if not hysterical.
I believe we have a tribal gene yet to be mapped that makes us believe in the inate superiority of our own tribe or country. This gene is often balanced by a reasoning gene that allows us to analyze and decide what is superior and what is merely different without being better or worse. Fanatics, whether they are religous zealots or 'patriots' cannot analyze the perspective of others.
We are all eve's children but family fights are often the worst.
"never underestimate the power of human stupidity."
Is it Mad's line "Ignorance is bliss" which makes some people obviously happy if not hysterical.
I believe we have a tribal gene yet to be mapped that makes us believe in the inate superiority of our own tribe or country. This gene is often balanced by a reasoning gene that allows us to analyze and decide what is superior and what is merely different without being better or worse. Fanatics, whether they are religous zealots or 'patriots' cannot analyze the perspective of others.
We are all eve's children but family fights are often the worst.
GhengisFarb
www.GhengisFarb.com
Most Americans love America and are willing to die for it (even more so since Sept 11) but VERY FEW would be willing to die for the government. Americans think of America(Home of the Free, great capitalist mega-nation, defender of the free world, yadda, yadda, yadda) and the American government (Congress, Washington DC, the President, those @$@#@$@ jerks that charge us that @!#$* 30% income tax and stick our freaking nose into everyone else's business...) as two completely different things, as opposed to the rest of the world who tend to view America as both, not realizing that 90% of America's citizens couldn't care less about who, what, where, or how anything is going outside America's borders. Which is why America tends to get blindsided (Pearl Harbor, Sept 11), Americans are comfortable with what America is, and what they have in their lives. Unfortuanately, many of our leaders have ego issues and constantly want to use America's assets to make their 'dent in history'.
The funny thing is, Americans were starting to get fed up with the whole Middle East thing and polls showed the general populace wanted ALL American forces to leave the Middle East and lessen support for Israel. Then they go and do that Sept 11 thing and swing American opinion back to keeping a heavy military presence there.
Osama has to be the most incompetent leader ever, he has done nothing but achieve the opposite of his goals.
Ozymandius
Prince
Until 9/11 Americans only had to worry about American nuts. Now they realize there is a whole bunch of nuts outside their borders too. The rest of the world is force feeding geography lessons to the USA
Ozymandius
Prince
Ozymandius
by Percy Bysshe Shelley
First Published in 1817
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I met a traveller from an antique land,
Who said--"Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert . . . . Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them, the heart that fed;
And on the pedestal, these words appear:
My name is Ozymandius, King of Kings,
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away."
by Percy Bysshe Shelley
First Published in 1817
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I met a traveller from an antique land,
Who said--"Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert . . . . Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them, the heart that fed;
And on the pedestal, these words appear:
My name is Ozymandius, King of Kings,
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away."
All right listen you little...<sigh> Did anyone else catch this statement:???
originally posted by Higher Game:
(j\k).
Also the fact that you won't admit that we Americans are to proud just proves it.
originally posted by Montezuma:
Sadly I think he goes to some sort of Private Christian zealot school. Not a public one. (I'll get Higher Game back for insulting beloved China!!
)
Now teturkhan\Oda Nobunaga for a hopeless attempt to get this back on topic: I say we should have some kind of way to make it possible for three-way MPP and Alliances. And did Civ ii's expansion come with a MP, 'cause I heard it wasnt in the original?
originally posted by Higher Game:
Well he didnt actually say that Germany started the war but thats what it sounds like. When Austria declared war on Serbia, Germany joined them, a few days later ( Austria) You could learn this reading any book, Svejk comes to mind
(j\k). Also the fact that you won't admit that we Americans are to proud just proves it.
originally posted by Montezuma:
Sadly I think he goes to some sort of Private Christian zealot school. Not a public one. (I'll get Higher Game back for insulting beloved China!! )Now teturkhan\Oda Nobunaga for a hopeless attempt to get this back on topic: I say we should have some kind of way to make it possible for three-way MPP and Alliances. And did Civ ii's expansion come with a MP, 'cause I heard it wasnt in the original?
Higher Game
National Socialist
The Germans killed innocent people aboard the Lusitania. Again, WWI was pointless. Germany just wanted to starve the British of their resources. But sinking any and every ship that was within 300 miles of Britain was just plain wrong. Germany was punished by the Treaty of Versailles, Austria was reletively let off. Some little Balkan country started the war, but Germany was really the one to blame. They broke the rules and paid for it. Besides using unrestricted submarine warfare, they used MUSTARD GAS. There have been so many Geneva conventians against chemicals used in war. That apparently didn't stop Germany. They were powerful enough as it was, but they got greedy and payed for it.
Exactly what grade of what type of public school are you currently attending? I realize that in the south, football is considered more important than academics (at least that was the case when I was growing up in Oklahoma), but that is no excuse for not paying more attention in your history classes... at least where it comes to sequence of events, and if you don't understand what I'm referring to.... LOOK IT UP!!! instead of inflicting your ignorance on the rest of us.
I'm sure Heinlein got this from someone else (like most of his "sayings of Lazarus Long"), but I don't know where he got it from, and this one has always been one of my favorites, and I consider it very appropriate to the current discussion! <grin>
Zouave
Crusader
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2001
- Messages
- 1,603
Lusitania you forget to mention was loaded with war munitions, and the Brits sent it unescorted and not zig-zagging right where they knew of U-Boat activity off the irish coast. Sounds to me like the Brits may have set it up to get America in the war.
I blame the Serbs most of all, then the Austrians, and then the Russian Czar - it was his mass mobilization decision that set the whole thing going as then all the other nations had to mobilize also and implement their war plans.
If the Czar had not mobilized and just sent "volunteers" and aid to Slavic Serbia the Austrians likely could have found it so difficult to beat they could have been coerced by the rest of Europe into accepting some economic payoff.
BTW, the Geneva Conventions against mustard gas came AFTER WW I.
I blame the Serbs most of all, then the Austrians, and then the Russian Czar - it was his mass mobilization decision that set the whole thing going as then all the other nations had to mobilize also and implement their war plans.
If the Czar had not mobilized and just sent "volunteers" and aid to Slavic Serbia the Austrians likely could have found it so difficult to beat they could have been coerced by the rest of Europe into accepting some economic payoff.
BTW, the Geneva Conventions against mustard gas came AFTER WW I.
Higher Game
National Socialist
Well... Who cares if the Geneva conventions were after WWI!? Slavery was legal once too, but that doesn't make it right! The Germans were not breaking the rules at that time, but they were doing wrong. Slavery was legal once, but now we have to pay for it. We made the same mistake with atomic weapons, but we helped rebuild Japan. Germany didn't pay their dues, they just went to war again 
The Lusistania was a passenger ship. I have never heard of the British planting munitions in the ship to lure German submarines to it. It wasn't to destroy munitions. It was cold blooded murder on Germany's part. The error of not zig zagging was an error by the captain, not an English plot to drag us into the war. I bet a lot of you are like the Conspiracy Theory guy...
England would have won anyway, we just resolved the war faster than it would have been anyway.
The Lusistania was a passenger ship. I have never heard of the British planting munitions in the ship to lure German submarines to it. It wasn't to destroy munitions. It was cold blooded murder on Germany's part. The error of not zig zagging was an error by the captain, not an English plot to drag us into the war. I bet a lot of you are like the Conspiracy Theory guy...
England would have won anyway, we just resolved the war faster than it would have been anyway.
Evie
Pronounced like Eevee
Man, this guy just doesn't give up.
There we go again.
Rule of war #1 : Everyone kills innocent in war. Innocent died on the Lusitania. Innocents died in the blitz. Innocents died at Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Tokyo and Dresden. There's no magic guiding system on bombs, torpedoes and the like to protect innocents. If you don't like it, you'd better start thinking about anti-war protests.
The next two lines of your post have little relevance to each other. Both are relatively true, they just don't go together. Most wars are pointless, and WW I is no exception.
And of course Germany wanted to starve britain of resources. As for sinking every ship, well, given that passenger liners were often converted to also transport troops (from the commonwealth/USA (ammunitions)) while they were at it.
A note from a site regarding the Lusitania
NOVEMBER 1914
LUSITANIA's schedule is reduced to one round voyage per month.
To save Cunard incurring further expenses,
one boiler room is closed down and her maximum speed is
thereby reduced to 21 knots and her optimum cruising speed is down to 18 knots.
She is now regularly carrying large quantities of American made munitions home to England.
(http://www.lusitania.net/)
Doesn't make the death of innocents any easier to swallow, of course. But considering the other possible freight of the ship, they fall in teh category of "collateral damage" which the Pentagon like so much. They just happened to be in the way. (and quite possibly the allies were fully aware that they were using civilians as human shields).
Serbia started the war, that too is true, but Germany, really the one to blame? Why, because they jumped in to side with their allies like everyone did at the time? (Russia jumped in to defend Serbia against Austria, then Germany to side with Austria against Russia, etc). No particular country is really to blame for World War I, but really rather all the alliances that were triggered in chain by the assassination.
Next, to adress your newest ineptitude.
"There have been so many Geneva conventians (sic) against chemicals used in war."
Wrong, wrong, wrong. The Geneva CONVENTIONS cover the treatment of prisonners and wounded in war, ie, battlefield humanitarism. The Red Cross and all that. There were four such : 1864, 1907, 1929 and 1949.
The Geneva protocol, which adressed use of gas, was signed in 1925. There's been only one such, followed by the 1992 Chemical Weapons Convention. Obviously, you can't blame the german for breaking a convention that wasn't even signed at the time they supposedly broke it.
Incidentaly your pure white snow allies used gas in world war I too.
Here's a list of incident related to gas use in world war I.
* World War I- the use of chemical agents in WWI caused an estimated 1,300,000 casualties, including 90,000 deaths.
* 1914- French begin using tear gas in grenades and Germans retaliate with tear gas in artillery shells. This was the first significant use of chemical warfare in WWI.
* April 22, 1915- Germans attack the French with chlorine gas at Ypres, France. This was the first significant use of chemical warfare in WWI.
* September 25, 1915- First British chemical weapons attack; chlorine gas is used against Germans at the Battle of Loos.
* February 26, 1918- Germans launch the first projectile attack against US troops with phosgene and chloropicrin shells. The first major use of gas against American forces.
* June 1918- Fist US use of gas in warfare.
* June 28, 1918- The US begins its formal chemical weapons program with the establishment of the Chemical Warfare Service.
(http://www.wilpf.int.ch/disarm/chem.htm)
Yeah, they paid for it. Were made to pay for it so much in fact that it nearly killed their country and led to the rise of a certain person, Adolf Hitler by name.
Good thing they (Allies) didn't try more Germany-squishing after World War II.
There we go again.
Rule of war #1 : Everyone kills innocent in war. Innocent died on the Lusitania. Innocents died in the blitz. Innocents died at Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Tokyo and Dresden. There's no magic guiding system on bombs, torpedoes and the like to protect innocents. If you don't like it, you'd better start thinking about anti-war protests.
The next two lines of your post have little relevance to each other. Both are relatively true, they just don't go together. Most wars are pointless, and WW I is no exception.
And of course Germany wanted to starve britain of resources. As for sinking every ship, well, given that passenger liners were often converted to also transport troops (from the commonwealth/USA (ammunitions)) while they were at it.
A note from a site regarding the Lusitania
NOVEMBER 1914
LUSITANIA's schedule is reduced to one round voyage per month.
To save Cunard incurring further expenses,
one boiler room is closed down and her maximum speed is
thereby reduced to 21 knots and her optimum cruising speed is down to 18 knots.
She is now regularly carrying large quantities of American made munitions home to England.
(http://www.lusitania.net/)
Doesn't make the death of innocents any easier to swallow, of course. But considering the other possible freight of the ship, they fall in teh category of "collateral damage" which the Pentagon like so much. They just happened to be in the way. (and quite possibly the allies were fully aware that they were using civilians as human shields).
Serbia started the war, that too is true, but Germany, really the one to blame? Why, because they jumped in to side with their allies like everyone did at the time? (Russia jumped in to defend Serbia against Austria, then Germany to side with Austria against Russia, etc). No particular country is really to blame for World War I, but really rather all the alliances that were triggered in chain by the assassination.
Next, to adress your newest ineptitude.
"There have been so many Geneva conventians (sic) against chemicals used in war."
Wrong, wrong, wrong. The Geneva CONVENTIONS cover the treatment of prisonners and wounded in war, ie, battlefield humanitarism. The Red Cross and all that. There were four such : 1864, 1907, 1929 and 1949.
The Geneva protocol, which adressed use of gas, was signed in 1925. There's been only one such, followed by the 1992 Chemical Weapons Convention. Obviously, you can't blame the german for breaking a convention that wasn't even signed at the time they supposedly broke it.
Incidentaly your pure white snow allies used gas in world war I too.
Here's a list of incident related to gas use in world war I.
* World War I- the use of chemical agents in WWI caused an estimated 1,300,000 casualties, including 90,000 deaths.
* 1914- French begin using tear gas in grenades and Germans retaliate with tear gas in artillery shells. This was the first significant use of chemical warfare in WWI.
* April 22, 1915- Germans attack the French with chlorine gas at Ypres, France. This was the first significant use of chemical warfare in WWI.
* September 25, 1915- First British chemical weapons attack; chlorine gas is used against Germans at the Battle of Loos.
* February 26, 1918- Germans launch the first projectile attack against US troops with phosgene and chloropicrin shells. The first major use of gas against American forces.
* June 1918- Fist US use of gas in warfare.
* June 28, 1918- The US begins its formal chemical weapons program with the establishment of the Chemical Warfare Service.
(http://www.wilpf.int.ch/disarm/chem.htm)
Yeah, they paid for it. Were made to pay for it so much in fact that it nearly killed their country and led to the rise of a certain person, Adolf Hitler by name.
Good thing they (Allies) didn't try more Germany-squishing after World War II.
Evie
Pronounced like Eevee
Originally posted by Higher Game
Well... Who cares if the Geneva conventions were after WWI!? Slavery was legal once too, but that doesn't make it right!
No, but you can't blame the Germans for doing somethign everyone was doing at the time (chemical warfare) because it was banned after.
The Germans were not breaking the rules at that time, but they were doing wrong.
So was everyone else.
Slavery was legal once, but now we have to pay for it. We made the same mistake with atomic weapons, but we helped rebuild Japan. Germany didn't pay their dues, they just went to war again
CORRECTION : Germany DID pay. It was left nearly ruined, and it was that very situation which lead to Hitler, Nazism, and the bitterness which got World War II going. It was making them pay which caused the trouble, not not makign them pay.
The Lusistania was a passenger ship. I have never heard of the British planting munitions in the ship to lure German submarines to it.
It wasn't to lure them. It was to transport them on a ship with human shields around (and to save having to send a second transport for it).
It wasn't to destroy munitions. It was cold blooded murder on Germany's part.
War is all about cold-blooded murder Higher Game. Are you so innocent you never realized that before?
The question is, there were munitions onboard. There was *NO* advantage for germany destroying the ship if it only had sweet innocent stupid passengers onboard.
The error of not zig zagging was an error by the captain, not an English plot to drag us into the war. I bet a lot of you are like the Conspiracy Theory guy...
Not an english plot, probably, but not a deliberate german atrocity.
You make it sounds like Tarkin shooting at Alderaan and Leia whining about having no weapons.
England would have won anyway, we just resolved the war faster than it would have been anyway.
Oh, I thought you had saved everyone's butts twice in the twentieth century?
Bad enough that you keep contradicting actual history, try at least not to contradict yourself Higher Game.
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