Might have to shelf it for now...

[Armr]

Ok...

I want to start by saying that i i've played Civ since the first one. I think i played it for like 48 hours straight and i think Sid and Firaxis will make it right but it isn't "right" right now...fingers crossed.

There is definitely a nasty memory leak when huge games get into the latter part of the game. The computer locks up and you have to reboot to clear the memory to recover. Smaller maps and not playing passed the intended end of the game in time helps but this is rediculous as it gives the feel that the game wasn't ready for release...holidays a factor???

Another bad sigh is a huge patch for the first patch = 24M. ouch. I suspected something was wrong right off the bat hehe

Another indicator is that Firaxis doesn't even have a place to post on their web site. hmmmm.

Plus, something i haven't seen mentioned a lot but that is a definite problem is balance. when i try to take a city with 6 tanks and 1 infantry unit can destroy all 6 tanks = balance issue. And then said infantry unit can easily take my city fortified with tanks and other defensive units and all in one turn = balance issue. and that's just one example. i think i saw a mention that archers wouldn't be taking tanks but it has happened. plz Firaxis...let's get this fixed in the next patch...

Anyway, i think i may have to shelf Civ 4 until these and some of the other issues are addressed. Still a keeper even if for the name and nestalgia (sp.) but will i be overrun with anticipation for civ5 and more importantly will i be willing to try to sell the wife on the next one when she has had to listen to my frustrations on this one.....that remains to be seem and is up to Firaxis. EE2 and AoE3 are looking pretty good tho.....

My conclusion for now.....i expect a LOT more...and Civ isn't the only player this genre(?) any more so we all expect a LOT more...

 

[Dragonlor]

The balance is fine. Grab a stack of even outdated siege units with your tanks and you can easily take any city you want. You can even see your combat odds before each fight so just pick the ones you know you can win.

 

[Armr]

i'll check that out, but in RL one dude isn't going to take out 6+ tanks LOL

Thx )

 

[Armr]

Even with the bugs and massive frustration, i've played this blasted thing for days LOL

 

[Kolyana]

I may have to shelve it myself too ... and I really don't want too ... but my Civ IV is beginning to lock up REALLY badly with just 10 minutes of playing ... every game, without fail. It's killing me and it'll not be long before it corrupts my system or something and causes a required reinstall

 

[Ranos]

i'll check that out, but in RL one dude isn't going to take out 6+ tanks LOL

Thx )

Game does not = real life. Game = fun, strategy, balance, etc.

One thing that people seem to be having a problem with in Civ 4 is the need for combined arms. You can't just roll up to a city with a stack of Tanks and take it with no problem. You need to take Tanks, Artillery, Infantry and possible a couple of other backup units. It takes strategy and planning to make war on your enemies not just the (formerly) dreaded stack of doom.

Read the manual about how combat and promotion works and then read the forums to see what people have to say. Don't come in and say this game stinks or come and complain about not being able to run over every city you come to. Ask for help before coming to the conclusion that the game is unbalanced.

 

[Armr]

Thx, i appreciate the feedback and i'll definitely give that a shot. but it still doesn't explain one unit taking a city than i have defended just as they did. Strategy yes, RL it's not but it IS a reflection of it and some things game or not still need to be accurate, fun <> the bugs and balance issues. But like i said, i've still played it for days...

 

[Oni]

I have no problem with balance. I read alot of the reviews and got the idea for mixing right away, and I observed this necessity right away then. IN that sence the game is great.

I love going up to a capital (which I could rarely take in Civ 3 because they stacked an ungodly amount of spearmen which my tanks couldnt even get through), and the capital has quite good deffence (% and units), but I just lay sieg blast the crap out of the deffence then storm with various artillery units causing massive collatoral damage. Then the actual invasion begins. That all makes sence.


What doesn't make sence is when the game locks up right after a win was declared and I have to reboot the game and my save to see the win vid. That just torks me

Every time the game has crashed on me has been because of a world wonder video (reffering to the above crash I also built the UN the same turn as my victory and the UN vid is what crashed it but my win was already declared yet I did not see the win vid). Should't there be a pop up that says "PLAY VIDEO" or "SKIP VIDEO".

I mean after I have seen all of them a dozen times I may just want to do that anyways. But more importantly I WANT TO SKIP THEM IF THEY ARE CRASHING MY SYSTEM!

 

[Ranos]

If you go into the Civ4 config file, you can turn off the videos. Can't remember where in the file. You can find the fily in "My Documents/My Games/Civilization IV."

 

[Vulpes]

Plus, something i haven't seen mentioned a lot but that is a definite problem is balance. when i try to take a city with 6 tanks and 1 infantry unit can destroy all 6 tanks = balance issue. And then said infantry unit can easily take my city fortified with tanks and other defensive units and all in one turn = balance issue. and that's just one example. i think i saw a mention that archers wouldn't be taking tanks but it has happened. plz Firaxis...let's get this fixed in the next patch...

Yeah, this hasn't been mentioned a lot...

If you are not using siege units, an infantry in a big city (say 80% def bonus) with a couple of city defense promotions is going to have it all over your tanks. And in reverse, well your tanks don't get defensive bonuses, and are probably upgraded for city attack, so no big surprise there.

I can't believe how many people still complain about 'omg an archer killed my tank' when it's been explained so many times I can't even begin to keep count. War is not just 2 units lining up across a field and shooting at each other.

 

[Smidlee]

There is definitely a nasty memory leak when huge games get into the latter part of the game. The computer locks up and you have to reboot to clear the memory to recover. Smaller maps and not playing passed the intended end of the game in time helps but this is rediculous as it gives the feel that the game wasn't ready for release...holidays a factor???

There doesn't seems to be any memory leak in the game. Only misuse of memory. Still I hope to see improvement on how Civ4 handles memory in future patches. Depend to your specs, more ram can improve this some. When I play huge maps the total memory uses can sometimes go over 1.5gb . On my older and slower PC if a fully loaded map is reveal then my memory will peak over 2gb (it has only 1gb of ram) . If the total memory peaks over 2gb it will probably crash since there's a limit how much memory can be use for one program with windows XP.

> Some people in the "memory leak" thread claim their huge games stop crashing by changing "syncinput=1" in the inc. file.

Plus, something i haven't seen mentioned a lot but that is a definite problem is balance. when i try to take a city with 6 tanks and 1 infantry unit can destroy all 6 tanks = balance issue. And then said infantry unit can easily take my city fortified with tanks and other defensive units and all in one turn = balance issue. and that's just one example. i think i saw a mention that archers wouldn't be taking tanks but it has happened. plz Firaxis...let's get this fixed in the next patch...

Did any of your tanks had any "Barrage" promotions? I usually have half of my tanks with this promotions for the very reason I don't need artillery following behind them while other tanks has the "city raider" promotions. Don't forget how powerful these promotions are.
Still it should be extremely rare for one infantry can defend againest 6 tanks in the same exact turn without promotions. Also notice tanks don't get any defensive bonuses so not the best unit to defend your cities with.

 

[Col.BBQ]

Thx, i appreciate the feedback and i'll definitely give that a shot. but it still doesn't explain one unit taking a city than i have defended just as they did. Strategy yes, RL it's not but it IS a reflection of it and some things game or not still need to be accurate, fun <> the bugs and balance issues. But like i said, i've still played it for days...

Read up on the Battle of Stalingrad and the Battle of Berlin of World War 2. Infantry can cause a devastating effect on Armored tanks.

 

[Elsewhere]

In real life a company of infantrymen fortified inside a city can easily take on a bunch of tanks. There are such things as mines, anti-tank missiles and places to hide. Now, accompany the city assault with artillery and infantrymen... that's a different story.

 

[Psyringe]

Hi

Sorry to hear that you don't yet get the enjoyment out of Civ that you wanted. Sounds as if you haven't yet adapted to the Civ4 playing style.

There is definitely a nasty memory leak when huge games get into the latter part of the game. The computer locks up and you have to reboot to clear the memory to recover. Smaller maps and not playing passed the intended end of the game in time helps but this is rediculous as it gives the feel that the game wasn't ready for release...holidays a factor???

Evidence of a memory leak is contradictory. In your example, if there was a memory leak, then it should also appear when playing smaller maps, albeit later. Many people mistake the game's memory hunger for a memory leak. Civ4 needs a lot of memory, especially when playing on large or huge maps. Even 1 GB may not be enough to run huge maps smoothly.

Another bad sigh is a huge patch for the first patch = 24M. ouch. I suspected something was wrong right off the bat hehe

The size of a patch tells nothing about how much is being changed or fixed. You can add some graphics or sounds with a patch and pass the 20 MB mark really fast, even if you don't change anything else. Conversely, you could totally rewrite the whole game data of Civ4 (which is contained in XML files) and still have a patch of less than 2 MB.

The current patch is large because it includes new graphics (low-resolution textures).

Another indicator is that Firaxis doesn't even have a place to post on their web site. hmmmm.

They never had. Many games companies don't. What exactly do you think this is an indicator for?

Firaxians are active in some independent forums though.

Plus, something i haven't seen mentioned a lot but that is a definite problem is balance. when i try to take a city with 6 tanks and 1 infantry unit can destroy all 6 tanks = balance issue. And then said infantry unit can easily take my city fortified with tanks and other defensive units and all in one turn = balance issue. and that's just one example. i think i saw a mention that archers wouldn't be taking tanks but it has happened. plz Firaxis...let's get this fixed in the next patch...

Here, I think, you probably didn't yet fully understad the complexity of the combat engine. How were your tanks promoted? How was the infantry promoted? Did you bombard city defenses before attacking?

Promotions and terrain matter a lot in Civ4. You really have to think tactical now. For example, an unpromoted archer in the open field is toast to most units other than a warrior. Fortified in a city on a hill, with the right promotions, he can get a bonus of several hundred percent however. Don't just assume that your tank will roll ober everything just because it's a tank. Look carefully at the promotions and bonuses of the units you attack.

Give it another try before you shelf it - you'd miss out on a great game if you do.

 

[Instant_Cereal]

Here, I think, you probably didn't yet fully understad the complexity of the combat engine. How were your tanks promoted? How was the infantry promoted? Did you bombard city defenses before attacking?

Promotions and terrain matter a lot in Civ4. You really have to think tactical now. For example, an unpromoted archer in the open field is toast to most units other than a warrior. Fortified in a city on a hill, with the right promotions, he can get a bonus of several hundred percent however. Don't just assume that your tank will roll ober everything just because it's a tank. Look carefully at the promotions and bonuses of the units you attack.

Give it another try before you shelf it - you'd miss out on a great game if you do.

Thing that bursts my bubble the most about the combat system is the way defense is almost always favored and everything seems to rely on numerical superiority. There's no natural feel to it.

 

[Arvedui]

About the crashing and memory leak issues, have you tried trimming down the graphics a bit? You may not even have to lower the resolution or have to go without animations and multi-units. I say this because I am currently playing huge maps on a 1GHz machine to my satisfaction. This is probably thanks to my somewhat powerful graphics card, I think, still, before I checked the general graphics slider to medium, I couldn't play huge maps too long. Maybe this will help.

 

[Armr]

Thx for all the responses. I'll dig deeper into the combat system and stack units for offense AND defense. It is great to see such support and response from so many. And there is obviously a true effort to help ppl work out their problems.

The crashes are seem to be a common theme to almost everyone. I think they'll get those worked out. But for now i've just tuned down the graphics a touch and play large or smaller games.

And i'm still going to shelve this one until some of these bugs are worked out, IF i can stop playing it..... LOL

TC everyone

 

[spankey]

Thing that bursts my bubble the most about the combat system is the way defense is almost always favored and everything seems to rely on numerical superiority. There's no natural feel to it.

That is the way it has been in the real world. Throughout history, with near equal tech, it has always required many more attackers to take a city or defeat a defensive position than defenders. The rule of thumb that I have heard is 3 to 1. In real life, the defense IS favored.

 

[Jimbo30]

And i'm still going to shelve this one until some of these bugs are worked out, IF i can stop playing it..... LOL

TC everyone

I pretty much got to this stage 2 weeks ago...but recently me and my best mate have been playing some really good LAN games. I've even managed to pull him away from WoW so he's now playing Civ4 more than anything else.

Overall, I think Civ4 is less frustrating than Civ3. Ridiculous combat results can really ruin your day but on the whole they are much less common in Civ4, imo.

 

[Instant_Cereal]

That is the way it has been in the real world. Throughout history, with near equal tech, it has always required many more attackers to take a city or defeat a defensive position than defenders. The rule of thumb that I have heard is 3 to 1. In real life, the defense IS favored.

....

1. First years of Operation Barbarossa on the Eastern Front of WWII.
2. Both Gulf Wars (sort of a bad example, but damn they proved numbers don't mean everything).
3. Many of Rome's campaigns.
4. German-French campaign during WWII.
5. Spanish conquistadors. Sure, the natives weren't as technologically advanced, but the fact that Spain tore down empires with such few men cannot be ignored. No, I do not think something as nuts as this should be achievable in the game, but it's just another example of 'numbers don't always win'.
6. English-French battles during the 100 Years War.
7. The Vikings.
8. Alexander of Mecadon.
9. Spartan and Greek wars / battles.

I mean... come on, the list goes on. I understand it's a game et al and its goal isn't to be a perfect simulation of realism, but I think things could be just a tad bit more natural and realistic feeling. The current combat system is tolerable, but I swear it can be better.