Mil Academy
- Thread starter bigFRANK
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darski
Regent in Training
ChaosArbiter
King
Cavalry doesn't upgrade anyway
Although Cav Armies are very useful for attacking units in the field, and you won't have any other 4-move units unless you're Germany (Panzers are 3-move, Tanks are 2) or until the Modern Age (Modern Armor are 3-move). So don't throw Cav Armies away.
Okay, I already hear a lecture from vmxa coming but . . .
Even outdated armies can be used to cover for slower moving but more effective units. If the AI doesn't have tanks yet, then that cav army can be used to cover for artillery trains and other such groups (wounded units, etc.) so that AI won't attack them, particularly if you stick to good terrain (hills and mountains).
Until the AI has tanks, I have only seen the AI go after a cavalry army if it is extremely weakened from battle, or if they can bombard it with bombers and/or ships. Because the AI will group its navy and bombers have such a large range, they can bombard enough to make a cav army vulnerable to attack - even from other single unit enemy cavalry. But the AI does not (generally) mass artillery well. So until tanks or bombers (or large fleets on the coast), that cavalry army can help take cities with entrench Infantry by guarding the artillery train.
I recently used a legion army in a monarch game to cover cavalry entering and retreating from battle because the AI would not attack it with its own cav. Even though I would never have used it to attack rifles fortified in a size 12 city, it shielded many a retreating cav from being picked off by the AI. That was worth more than the 100 shields I would have got for disbanding it.
Even outdated armies can be used to cover for slower moving but more effective units. If the AI doesn't have tanks yet, then that cav army can be used to cover for artillery trains and other such groups (wounded units, etc.) so that AI won't attack them, particularly if you stick to good terrain (hills and mountains).
Until the AI has tanks, I have only seen the AI go after a cavalry army if it is extremely weakened from battle, or if they can bombard it with bombers and/or ships. Because the AI will group its navy and bombers have such a large range, they can bombard enough to make a cav army vulnerable to attack - even from other single unit enemy cavalry. But the AI does not (generally) mass artillery well. So until tanks or bombers (or large fleets on the coast), that cavalry army can help take cities with entrench Infantry by guarding the artillery train.
I recently used a legion army in a monarch game to cover cavalry entering and retreating from battle because the AI would not attack it with its own cav. Even though I would never have used it to attack rifles fortified in a size 12 city, it shielded many a retreating cav from being picked off by the AI. That was worth more than the 100 shields I would have got for disbanding it.
I’m aware that a cavalry army is still a powerful offensive beast even into the modern ages but I am now starting to produce modern armour and am half tempted to build mech infantry armies in order to keep up with the modern tanks, probably not the best use of 400 shields though but I hate seeing offensive units blown to bits whilst defending against a knight.
As for the pillaging I’m pretty keen on that already although now I have airpower that’s my bombers first job.
As for the pillaging I’m pretty keen on that already although now I have airpower that’s my bombers first job.
ChaosArbiter
King
I wouldn't bother - Mech Infantry only have 2 more Defense than Modern Armor anyway, so just hold a Modern Armor Army back if you're worried about counterattacks. Or just a Cavalry Army, seeing as the AI gets nervous about attacking any armies.
Yes, but mech infantry don't have blitz. A 4-unit mech infantry army takes 4 units that can attack once each and combines them into an army that can attack 3 times (in Conquests), losing one attack per turn. A 4-unit modern armor army takes 4 units that can attack 3 times each and combines them into an army that can attack 4 times, losing out on 8 attacks per turn. I hate building modern armor armies for this reason. (Plus, I like to fill mech infantry armies at least partly with units drafted from cities that aren't growing anymore, so they are cheap to fill.)
WhiteRabbit
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2011
- Messages
- 29
Based on my experience, I like to use mech infantry in Armies and use them entirely for defensive purposes in the field (usually to screen my armor from counter-attacks).
The AI very rarely will ever attack my mech-inf army (and if they do, I've seen some 30+ cavalry units in one turn die trying - put all my mech infantries in the army into 'elite' status!).
Putting armor into the Army unit seems like a waste. The older cavalry armies that one usually has laying around are still useful in the modern era.
Btw, playing Vanilla, I've encountered the Aztecs with four active armies in the field. I only mention this because many say they've never seen the AI use armies. I see it fairly often (especially with the Aztecs).
The AI very rarely will ever attack my mech-inf army (and if they do, I've seen some 30+ cavalry units in one turn die trying - put all my mech infantries in the army into 'elite' status!).
Putting armor into the Army unit seems like a waste. The older cavalry armies that one usually has laying around are still useful in the modern era.
Btw, playing Vanilla, I've encountered the Aztecs with four active armies in the field. I only mention this because many say they've never seen the AI use armies. I see it fairly often (especially with the Aztecs).
They are talking about C3C. The programming is messing in C3C and it prevents the AI from using armies (short answer). You will see them in Vanilla and PTW. In PTW I once had France drop two knight armies on my island in an ambitious amphibious assault. It took three cavalry to kill both armies and I only lost one of the cavalry. AI armies are not to be feared.
As for putting MA into an army - the best answer I can give you is try digging out AI Mech Inf from a city that is 12+ size that was placed on a hill. That is the equivalent of a defense of 49.5 [18*(1+.25+.50+1)]=49.5 Sending Modern armor to digging them out is like pitting warriors against spears. There's nothing wrong with that if you are expecting casualties and you can refill the ranks. Otherwise, a MA army could be rather useful.
WhiteRabbit
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2011
- Messages
- 29
The four Aztec armies I saw at one time, three were all cavalry armies, the 4th was tanks. They used them quite rationally to attack. They are tough units.
Isn't that what artillery and bombers are for?
I stopped putting tanks or MA in armies after losing too many. I quickly discovered that 4 Modern Armor attacking separately seems more powerful (and more flexible) than combined as an army.
My mech infantry armies however are very useful - acts like a fortfied base in the field where damaged attack units can hide since it is a super-strong defender. Put that army on a hill or mountain and its almost impossible to kill.
Well, I think the point is, don't let them attack. Kill them immediately and they are just wasted shields.
That's one school of thought. I am actually fond of artillery. But if you chain yourself to artillery to back up your modern armor, then your offensive only moves as fast as the artillery. There are tricks to keep things moving along - such as combat settlers. I don't care much for bombers - it always seems they are being shot down or they are not based close enough to keep up with the offensive. Putting them on a carrier doesn't help much either.
If your focus is on speed, a few MA armies traveling with your other MAs offers a highly mobile fighting force that has the power of the armies to break up tough cities and give cover to wounded units.
Arguably, mech armies could also be characterized as a waste too. Stack 4 mech infantries on favorable terrain and the AI will avoid it anyway. No real need for an army.
In the end, I think the situation dictates the response. I personally make a mech army to accompany my artillery train (overkill?) and make MA armies to assist with tough/secondary targets until the artillery can shell the primary target.
Jokeslayer
Dedicated
Artillery are only really worth it if you have a lot of them. If you just have a few they don't do enough damage to justify the slowdown. How many you need obviously changes with level. A combined army is more efficent than a pure MA force since you'll lose a lot fewer MA when the defenders are redlined.
Bombers are nice for lethal bombardment and for being a little more flexible than artillery but I also think that they got shot down too much to be better than artillery/radar artillery. I have no idea how you prevent that (other than by resource denial and then taking out existing fighters, or by picking on someone who doesn't have flight)
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