Military Tatics/ Alliance Seeking discussion

[donsig]

I see no point in trying to take Babylon down. I don't think we can do it by ourselves. Let's concentrate on India and play defense against Hammurabi (after taking Izibia and Larsa). I think we'd be better off building barracks and granaries rather than trying to capture Sun Tsu and the Pyramids. I also agree that we need aqueducts in our cities. Since General Falcon has made it known that we have a sufficient amount of cavalry I've switched the SW queues over to include 3 aqueducts and a market before resuming military production. The recent (illegal) over-ride of my queues prevented me from also making headway on establishing an aqueduct in New Falcon's Haven. It is not easy to find the proper balance between infrastructure and military units, especially during war-time.

 

[Falcon02]

I agree with the Aqueducts... we need 'em... but can you please explain to me HOW switching from a Cavalry unit to a Musket unit prevented you from making headway on establishing an aqueduct in New Falcon's Nest?!

A.) I only asked Oct to change the current item... which was a Cavalry unit.

B.) changing from Cavalry to Musket should have changed turns, since Musket is cheaper.

I never intended Octavian to adjust the actual "queue" itself (those after the current production), if this is what happened.

Edit: also IF this is the case... wouldn't it just be a matter of changing the build queue back, since we didn't play long enough for anything else to be built after turn 1.

 

[Feodor Ardent]

- If we take Babylon we could sell all our Barracks and Granaries before we take the city. That would give us a nice cash-bonus and some extra shields to whatever is produced at any of our cities.

Several citizens have mentioned this, and it is a puzzle to me. Why not sell all your barracks and shields after you take the Wonder? The price doesn't change. I've done it often enough.

Feodor
(Looking up from his abacus, pondering the far wall.)

 

[Feodor Ardent]

I'm convinced we COULD take Babylon down, but not in a reasonable time with the forces and tactics available. They are going to be to busy to bother us for a long while. We can start an offensive against them any old turn after they get through playing with the Russians and Iroquois. In the meantime, we can get on with life.

Feodor
(Wondering to himself if he will ever run out of cliches.)

 

[roadcage]

The phony Persian war is essentially over. I don't think we have a single alliance any more against them and all our neighbors have stopped fighting them in favor of fighting us, apparently. We may wish to consider making peace with Persia at this time. Let's see what they'll give us to make peace.

I suspect that the Romans have another opinion. Look closely at 980,1000,1010 ad saves and note the shrinking Red territory.

Like Egypt before it, Caesar faces the rath of Xerxces. England will be next. Then.....

 

[Octavian X]

The image you conjure is an alarming one, roadcage...

And, back to Babylon. I sincerely believe that it is impossible to capture and hold the city. Let us say, as Falcon points out, we capture all surround cities. First off, holding the cities would be a challenge in itself. Keeping cities next to the capital of the biggest culture power in the world is, well...

Second, assuming we can take and hold those surrounding cities, we would also need to take the last cities on islands, etc., to prevent it from flipping. I am not kidding, capitals flip even if you control the surrounding area. In one of my earlier games, warlord no less, I had captured the capital city of my rival, and all the cities surrounding it. I was happily conquering further into their territory, when the capital flipped. It created an island of enemy territory in the middle of mine...

ANY attempt to take down Babylon will require huge amounts of resources and time that we don't have.

 

[donsig]

Originally posted by Falcon02
I agree with the Aqueducts... we need 'em... but can you please explain to me HOW switching from a Cavalry unit to a Musket unit prevented you from making headway on establishing an aqueduct in New Falcon's Nest?!

The VP/DP changed the current projects. NFN was working on a cavalry. It was switched to a musket which was built the next turn. If it had been left on cavalry the accumulated shields would still be there and I could have switched over to an aqueduct using those shields. The aqueduct would have been complete in 7 turns. Now NFN must begin from scratch and it will take 17 turns for that city to build an aqueduct. That's what I meant by losing ten turns...

 

[Chieftess]

Amazing how this is turning into the Great Governor Debates II (which, consequently, The GGD 1 also revovled around the issue of an acqueduct in DG1).

 

[donsig]

And the irony of it all is that one of the biggest supportes of Plan A is fighting for infrastructure!

To return to the topic, should we have some kind of informational poll to determine the extent of our offensive actions against Babylon?

 

[Cheetah]

Originally posted by Donovan Zoi

Keep in mind, if we take on Babylon, we will lose quite a few cavalry due to the reasons I mentioned in my last post. Which means we will have to use more of our production to replace those cavalry; production that we could use for defensive units and infrastructure. It is possible to stay strong militarily and grow domestically in the process, as long as our offensive units are used wisely. And I'm sorry, but sending our cavalry to attack a unit of equal defense fortified in a size 12 city is not my definition of wise.

Originally posted by Cheetah

In accordance to Falcon02's plan we could also besiege the cities untill we have enough units to take them. And the Babylonians are at war with our Allies as well.

Originally posted by Feodor Ardent

I'm convinced we COULD take Babylon down, but not in a reasonable time with the forces and tactics available. They are going to be to busy to bother us for a long while. We can start an offensive against them any old turn after they get through playing with the Russians and Iroquois. In the meantime, we can get on with life.

It has just been posted a poll by Donovan Zoi which would take us quickly into the Industrial Age and giving us Riflemen. I believe that we could besige the cities until we feel we are strong enough to take them out. And we do have allies that can help on taking out Babylon. The alliances against India is over in 9 turns so I don't expect the wars to last much longer on Indian soil.

I could agree to wait with invading Babylon, but I realy feel that we should take it at some point. And the earlier the better.

 

[Donovan Zoi]

Cheetah, I haven't posted the trade poll yet. I will be doing that at about 11PM GMT(5PM EST). At that time, I will also post a checklist poll(check off the Bab cities we should take right now) on this matter if one does not exist.

 

[Feodor Ardent]

I could agree to wait with invading Babylon, but I realy feel that we should take it at some point. And the earlier the better.

Agreed, the sooner the better. But all debates beyond 10-20 turns are just heating the air. We can replace them with a pool on whether the Russians or the Babs are going to win their current slice and claw brawl. Unless the Rus-Bab-Iro conflict ends in a stalemate, all of our equations will change by the time we get switched to rifles and democracy.


Feodor
(A humble citizen-soldier of no great rank, marveling that he is none the less deliberating among high officials and statesmen. Almost like being a Kennedy.)

 

[Donovan Zoi]

Originally posted by Feodor Ardent


Feodor
(A humble citizen-soldier of no great rank, marveling that he is none the less deliberating among high officials and statesmen. Almost like being a Kennedy.)

All of that can change, Feodor. You've been nominated for Military Leader in the coming elections.

Check it out

Regarding Babylon, the poll I post later today will ask which Bab cities we should focus on right now. We will understandably have to maintain a wait-and-see mode for the duration of our alliances against Hammy.

Focusing on the East, something we may want to do is keep an eye on the Bab longbows that presumably headed south from Leningrado toward England. If those bows are able to capture an English city, our cavalry could take that city with no risk of resistors(since it would still contain friendly English citizens).

 

[Feodor Ardent]

All of that can change, Feodor. You've been nominated for Military Leader in the coming elections.

I am honored (bowing deeply,) :worshp:

. . . I would institute a rum ration for the troops at first opportunity.

. . . Also, we need more scouts:

. . . and riflemen:

Focusing on the East . . . If those [Bab] bows are able to capture an English city, our cavalry could take that city with no risk of resistors(since it would still contain friendly English citizens).

I was hoping someone would think of that. We have several possibilities of that sort on the western front, as well.

"Keep those horses greased, Men!" or something like that.

Feodor
(picking up the epaulet that fell off his shoulder when he bowed.)

 

[GenMarshall]

I would like to call attention to the Bab Pikemen between Palanthus and Dacula. Chieftess told me this while we were in the CFC Chat room. I have read about these "Killer Spearmen/pikemen" that sneek into your territory to just pillage. I suggest that we take a swift action and take down that Bab Pike.
THe Bab Pike May (or has) pillaged one of our road links to the horses.

 

[Chieftess]

And I think it may have just pillaged our horses.

 

[Zarn]

Do we have any more horses? Nevertheless, the pike must be dealt with swiftly. Do we have any units in the area that could be spared for a moment?