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Mining vs. Irrigation
- Thread starter TheDROCK
- Start date
Cunobelin Of Hippo
Site Pachyderm
You mean on grassland, right? Mine sqaures with little white dots in them, irrigate the others 
Other then that...mine hills, mine mountains (when you're bored!), irrigate FloPlains, irrigate plains, and god help you if you've got a lot of desert/jungle squares in your city terrain
Road everything!
Other then that...mine hills, mine mountains (when you're bored!), irrigate FloPlains, irrigate plains, and god help you if you've got a lot of desert/jungle squares in your city terrain
Road everything!Polonius
Warlord
This is actually quite a complex question - so don't expect much of an answer from me
The short answer is that they give different outcomes, so if your priority is more food (which will help your city's population grow faster) then irrigate. If you're looking for more production then mine (and the effects will vary depending on the terrain type).
Trouble is you usually want both! Mastering this is probably one of the more useful basic planks of the game as you will want to emphasize one or the other at different times of the game and for different styles of play or overall goals.
If you're not sure, one approach is to do some of both and then shift the citizens around a bit when you want to concentrate on one aim or the other. (Bring up the city view - double click on its centre or whatever - and then click on individual squares to move citizens around).
It's certainly a good reason to keep an eye on those workers that you set on auto as they might make different choices to you (e.g. slash down the forest for a ten shield grab, when you wanted the two shields per turn - or whatever).
Good luck, and when you've figured it all out, let me know - I could use some more skills in this area too!
The short answer is that they give different outcomes, so if your priority is more food (which will help your city's population grow faster) then irrigate. If you're looking for more production then mine (and the effects will vary depending on the terrain type).
Trouble is you usually want both! Mastering this is probably one of the more useful basic planks of the game as you will want to emphasize one or the other at different times of the game and for different styles of play or overall goals.
If you're not sure, one approach is to do some of both and then shift the citizens around a bit when you want to concentrate on one aim or the other. (Bring up the city view - double click on its centre or whatever - and then click on individual squares to move citizens around).
It's certainly a good reason to keep an eye on those workers that you set on auto as they might make different choices to you (e.g. slash down the forest for a ten shield grab, when you wanted the two shields per turn - or whatever).
Good luck, and when you've figured it all out, let me know - I could use some more skills in this area too!
Don't bother irrigating any grassland or flood plain tile without a special food bonus until you have left despotism. You will still only get 2 food - if you build mines on the grassland you will still get two food, plus 1 or 2 shields.
Sam_Catchem
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2001
- Messages
- 350
Rule of Thumb,
Mine grasslands until you are out of despotism. That's it.
Mine grasslands until you are out of despotism. That's it.
Yeah, mine grassland, irrigate plain, but always irrigate food bonus squares. That's what you do in Despotism. And then there's a few exceptions where you irrigate grassland pre-Electricity, in order to reach that ton of plains squares not near a river. I have to disagree, though, about not irrigating Flood Plain--you do. If I remember right, Flood Plains default to 3 food, -1 for Despotism. So if you irrigate that goes up to 4(3), which IS useful. Especially in the Ancient Age. Besides, you're not allowed to mine Flood Plain.
What I'm finding out now is, later on when you get Hospitals and start breaking 12 population, it's wise to switch your irrigation to mines, until you break-even in food (actually I cut a little slack by 1 or 2 food, in case pollution strikes). Every shield you can eke out pays off big, because your railroads, factories, and power plants multiply it out. And then you populate the big cities by joining workers. The small, size-6 cities grow 3 times as fast as metros, so it's good to establish a couple small but high-food villages as worker farms. It's not too hard getting 5 shields+5 surplus food from a size-6; that'll grow your metros every other turn.
The ideal city is size 20, happy, has just enough irrigation to avoid starvation, and every remaining square mined. And, of course, every square is railroaded regardless.
What I'm finding out now is, later on when you get Hospitals and start breaking 12 population, it's wise to switch your irrigation to mines, until you break-even in food (actually I cut a little slack by 1 or 2 food, in case pollution strikes). Every shield you can eke out pays off big, because your railroads, factories, and power plants multiply it out. And then you populate the big cities by joining workers. The small, size-6 cities grow 3 times as fast as metros, so it's good to establish a couple small but high-food villages as worker farms. It's not too hard getting 5 shields+5 surplus food from a size-6; that'll grow your metros every other turn.
The ideal city is size 20, happy, has just enough irrigation to avoid starvation, and every remaining square mined. And, of course, every square is railroaded regardless.
Hobbes
Utilitarian Despot
It depends, do you want production, population, or a little of both. Does your city have a number of hills or mountains nearby that you want to take advantage of? If so you will need the extra food provided by irrigating grassland (and latter with RR's, plains) to take advantage of these (especially when your city grows past 12). To start off, I normally mine grassland and irrigate plains, but with the development of RR's
and electricity I will sometime change a mine square to irrigation or vice versa to take best advantage of the available territory. Each city is an individual case, so it must be treated as so.
and electricity I will sometime change a mine square to irrigation or vice versa to take best advantage of the available territory. Each city is an individual case, so it must be treated as so.
In despotism, mine wherever your laborers work. Or put them where you want them, and mine it. I mine the cows, wheat, everything. You get plenty of food well into the time your cities get to be metro's. Then when you start to run short of food, look to change some mines to irrigation.
Early game, production -- shields -- is very important. Food, too, but you can't increase that in Despotism enough to matter. Workers are in short supply at first, so improve only the squares you, and eventually improve them all as you have worker time available. I never auto workers. I want them to do what I want, when I want.
I built Japan from 00 to 22 cities last night, and two wonders. 3rd coming up ( hopefully). I am still BC.
Of course, I am assuming reasonably good land... hills and mountains, yes, and forest, but enough grassland and plains to support a population well. With poor land, you probably cant win anyway, unless the whole world is the same way. You need some hills, some mountains, and some jungles and forests... but you need a breadbasket also.
Early game, production -- shields -- is very important. Food, too, but you can't increase that in Despotism enough to matter. Workers are in short supply at first, so improve only the squares you, and eventually improve them all as you have worker time available. I never auto workers. I want them to do what I want, when I want.
I built Japan from 00 to 22 cities last night, and two wonders. 3rd coming up ( hopefully). I am still BC.
Of course, I am assuming reasonably good land... hills and mountains, yes, and forest, but enough grassland and plains to support a population well. With poor land, you probably cant win anyway, unless the whole world is the same way. You need some hills, some mountains, and some jungles and forests... but you need a breadbasket also.
In your non-corrupt cities irrigate enough to get 20 pop (assuming the city has no overlap with another), then mine the rest. If its a good city site you may only need to irrigate 3-4 squares. Reason is you need 40 food to support 20 pop, and 20 pop to use every possible land square.
For your corrupt-never-gonna-amount-to-anything cities, irrigate every square, except hills and mountains, just road and rail them, since its a waste to bother with mines.
For your corrupt-never-gonna-amount-to-anything cities, irrigate every square, except hills and mountains, just road and rail them, since its a waste to bother with mines.
I always mine land with food bonuses, and irrigate land with mining bonusus. if you have each laborer making 3 food and 2 shields, your great. then when you have 22 people, you equalize food (plus a little for polution.) then max shields. in despotism, spend time preparing for democracy/republic. that works for me. remember, you dont get points for people and their only real purpose is to get more shields for production.
Exsanguination
No longer here
i don't know if anyone has said any of this yet, but I'll say what I've got. I recently played a chieftain game as the Americans, and did some experimentation and came up with the following (this is probably gonna be long):
First, irrigation will give you ONE extra food on any irrigatible terrain square, except for a grassland (if it already has two food, it most likely will not go up to three, but it happens on occasion - usually next to a river). Mining will give you ONE extra shield, on any terrain square.
now for the specifics
(x/y = x is food, y is shield):
(M = mine, I = irrigate)
Grassland:
1/1 - M/I, will yield one extra of whichever
2/0 - M, will yield 2/1
2/1 - M, will yield a 2/2 square
Desert:
0/1 - M, will yield a 0/2 square (very handy)
Tundra (I believe):
1/0 - M, will yield a 1/1
Wheat Square:
3/0 or 4/0 - M/I, will yield one extra of whichever (I usually mine)
3/1 - M/I, will yield one extra of whichever (I usually mine - this is the ultimate square!)
4/1 - M/I will yield one extra of whichever
Game Square:
2/1 - M/I, will yield one extra of whichever (I usually mine)
2/2 - M/I, will yield one extra of whichever
Cattle/Peasant Square:
2/1 - M/I, will yield one extra of whichever
2/2 - M/I, will yield one extra of whichever
Mountain/Hill:
0/1 - M, will yield a 0/2 square
1/1 - M, will yield a 1/2 square
*note: if a mountain square has iron, it will yield a 0/4 square, which is the ultimate production square
As you can, most of the restrictions are on Grassland or Desert squares.
in my opinion, I just look at my city screen and this is how I judge whether or not to mine or irrigate:
If the turns to growth is more than double the amount of turns to build a warrior (or worker), irrigate. If it is less, mine.
There ye go, hope that helped. Any opinions would help.
First, irrigation will give you ONE extra food on any irrigatible terrain square, except for a grassland (if it already has two food, it most likely will not go up to three, but it happens on occasion - usually next to a river). Mining will give you ONE extra shield, on any terrain square.
now for the specifics
(x/y = x is food, y is shield):
(M = mine, I = irrigate)
Grassland:
1/1 - M/I, will yield one extra of whichever
2/0 - M, will yield 2/1
2/1 - M, will yield a 2/2 square
Desert:
0/1 - M, will yield a 0/2 square (very handy)
Tundra (I believe):
1/0 - M, will yield a 1/1
Wheat Square:
3/0 or 4/0 - M/I, will yield one extra of whichever (I usually mine)
3/1 - M/I, will yield one extra of whichever (I usually mine - this is the ultimate square!)
4/1 - M/I will yield one extra of whichever
Game Square:
2/1 - M/I, will yield one extra of whichever (I usually mine)
2/2 - M/I, will yield one extra of whichever
Cattle/Peasant Square:
2/1 - M/I, will yield one extra of whichever
2/2 - M/I, will yield one extra of whichever
Mountain/Hill:
0/1 - M, will yield a 0/2 square
1/1 - M, will yield a 1/2 square
*note: if a mountain square has iron, it will yield a 0/4 square, which is the ultimate production square
As you can, most of the restrictions are on Grassland or Desert squares.
in my opinion, I just look at my city screen and this is how I judge whether or not to mine or irrigate:
If the turns to growth is more than double the amount of turns to build a warrior (or worker), irrigate. If it is less, mine.
There ye go, hope that helped. Any opinions would help.
Gordono, supposedly rails give a percentage bonus, so your method is basically destroying that. If you mine a shield bonus square thats more shields for the percentage bonus of rails. However I'm not 100% sure it does work like that.
Also I wouldn't do that anyway, there are times where you want more food or shields before you have max population so you can move the city workers around and get what you need. If you never manually select squares your approach prevents the governor from messing up since most every square will be giving the same stuff, so it may be good.
But I would still stick with my original post, your palace and forbidden cities and radius get 20 pop then mine everything else, all other citys only irrigate.
As for the ultimate shield square, mined, railed, uranium and coal give 5+ depending on weither its a shieldland or hill. Aluminum gives about the same as iron also.
Also I wouldn't do that anyway, there are times where you want more food or shields before you have max population so you can move the city workers around and get what you need. If you never manually select squares your approach prevents the governor from messing up since most every square will be giving the same stuff, so it may be good.
But I would still stick with my original post, your palace and forbidden cities and radius get 20 pop then mine everything else, all other citys only irrigate.
As for the ultimate shield square, mined, railed, uranium and coal give 5+ depending on weither its a shieldland or hill. Aluminum gives about the same as iron also.
IMHO, the location of the city is the key factor. If the city is surrounded by mountians and hills with only a couple of grassland spots, then irrigate the grasslands. You'll get plenty of production from the hills, but you'll need that Grassland food to support the miners in the hills.
If you are surrounded by flat land, irrigate the big food producing squares, like floodplains or "wheat" plains, and I like to irrigate the some of grass with shields (but some people may differ). When you get to advanced governments, they will produce a lot of food and again allow you to support citizens in the mines. In a democracy with railroads, for instance, you can mine about 2/3 of the squares and support your people.
If you are surrounded by flat land, irrigate the big food producing squares, like floodplains or "wheat" plains, and I like to irrigate the some of grass with shields (but some people may differ). When you get to advanced governments, they will produce a lot of food and again allow you to support citizens in the mines. In a democracy with railroads, for instance, you can mine about 2/3 of the squares and support your people.
Railroads give you a straight +1 bonus to irrigation/mining. The manual is incorrect when it states that railroads give a 50% bonus.
You can either irrigate and RR for +2 food, or mine and RR for +2 production (on plains and grass).
I'm inclined to irrigate sheilded grass and mine unshielded. Golden Ages and Mobilization give a 1 sheild bonus to any square that is *already* producing one. I like to ensure that as many squares as possible are producing at least one sheild.
In the early years produciton is more important than food. Growth is important, but bunus food squares give the needed boost there. I mine everything where people are working. Grass, wheat, cows... Later when the initial growth has stabilized and city growth becomes a problem of feeding them, then I will rework some squares and irrigate them.
Some cities will be in locations where they need the irrigation boost from the start... Plains, or all squared forest/hills.
Some cities will be in locations where they need the irrigation boost from the start... Plains, or all squared forest/hills.
I disagree on the relative importance of food/production as a Despotism. Population rushing is a very powerful tool. Your fringe cities are going to have miserable shield production due to corruption. Food is never lost to corruption. A city with a food special or two and a granary can rush whip a swordsman or horseman every 3-4 turns. Rush a barracks first, and you have a very powerful army very quickly. This will cause unhappiness problems down the line, however, once you're ready to stop rush whipping, sell off the improvements from your slave camp, and disband the city with a settler (you'll need the city at size two with no surplus food). Rebuild the city with the settler, and carry on. (See Vel's strategy threads on Apolyton for more details on how to abuse despot rush-whipping)