[ModMod] K-Mod-Z

Discussion in 'Civ 4 - K-Mod: Far Beyond the Sword' started by Zholef, Feb 1, 2015.

  1. Zholef

    Zholef Warlord

    Feb 20, 2014
    Some of the balance changes to K-Mod I recently proposed in the main thread attracted a bit of interest, which motivated me enough to turn my ideas into a modest "modmod" of K-Mod, version 0.01 of which I am now, with generous permission from Karadoc, happy to present to you. Perhaps some of you will enjoy it, maybe some of the changes will find their way into a future version of K-Mod, but what I'm really hoping to achieve with this is to kick start a discussion about how Civ4 in general and K-Mod in particular could be improved without expanding the game with additional content.

    Spoiler K-Mod-Z_readme.txt :

    K-Mod-Z (v0.01) by Zholef is an XML changes only "modmod" of the Civ4:BtS
    modification K-Mod (v1.44) by Karadoc. "K-Mod aims to build on standard Beyond
    the Sword game-play without changing the flavour. The focus is on fixing flaws
    in the game-mechanics for some of the weaker elements of the game, and
    improving balance and the AI." In its own balance related XML changes, K-Mod
    is very careful not to overcorrect, usually leaving buffed game elements still
    relatively weak and nerfed elements still fairly strong. K-Mod-Z is more
    aggressive in this respect, not lastly in the hope of provoking feedback,
    because truly balancing a game as complex as Civ4 is not something that can be
    done single-handedly. But K-Mod-Z goes beyond mere balancing and into
    smoothing some of the game's particularly annoyingly rough edges, for example
    trying to make building obsoletion more graceful, removing disadvantages from
    unique units and buildings, and increasing the opportunity cost of chopping

    Please direct any K-Mod-Z specific feedback, preferably of the brutally honest
    variety, into the CivFanatics.com forum thread located at:

    As for credits, all changes listed in K-Mod-Z_changelog.txt by Zholef. For
    everything else, see the documentation of the underlying K-Mod, which is
    included in this release.

    Spoiler K-Mod-Z_changelog.txt :

    Changes from K-Mod v1.44 to K-Mod-Z v0.01:

    Land units

    Quechua: -5 Production Cost
    Quechua: -25% vs. Archery Units
    War Chariot: Not immune to First Strikes
    Skirmisher: -1 First Strike Chance
    Dog Soldier: +1 Strength
    Dog Soldier: -50% vs. Melee Units
    Numidian Cavalry: +1 Strength
    Numidian Cavalry: -50% vs. Melee Units
    Keshik: -1 First Strike
    Keshik: Immune to First Strikes
    Jaguar: +1 Strength
    Jaguar: +5 Production Cost
    Praetorian: -1 Strength
    Praetorian: -5 Production Cost
    Praetorian: +10% City Attack
    Explorer: Starts with Sentry
    Ballista Elephant: +10% Forest Strength
    Ballista Elephant: +10% Jungle Strength
    Ballista Elephant: Requires Archery
    Samurai: Can be built with Copper
    Samurai*: Requires Iron Working
    Cataphract: Immune to First Strikes
    Camel Archer: +1 First Strike
    Camel Archer: +10% Desert Strength
    Camel Archer: +10% Oasis Strength
    Musketeer: -15% Withdrawal Chance
    Conquistador: Can upgrade to Tank
    Cavalry: Can upgrade to Tank
    Cossack: Can upgrade to Tank

    Water units

    Galley: +1 Cargo Space
    Trireme: +1 Cargo Space
    Trireme: Carries Infantry
    Carrack: +1 Cargo Space
    Galleon: +1 Cargo Space
    East Indiaman: +1 Cargo Space
    Privateer: Does not require Copper or Iron
    Frigate: Can be built with Copper
    Frigate: +1 Cargo Space
    Frigate: Carries Infantry
    Ship of the Line: Requires Iron
    Ship of the Line: +2 Cargo Space
    Ship of the Line: Carries Infantry
    Ship of the Line: +1 Movement Range
    Ironclad: +1 Movement Range
    Transport: +2 Cargo Space
    Destroyer: +1 Cargo Space
    Destroyer: Carries Infantry
    Battleship: +2 Cargo Space
    Battleship: Carries Infantry


    Academy: +1 Culture
    Academy: +3 Culture after 1000 years
    Monument*: Not obsolete with Astronomy
    Monument*: Obsolete with Mass Media
    Obelisk*: Not obsolete with Astronomy
    Obelisk*: Obsolete with Mass Media
    Stele: -5% Culture
    Stele*: Not obsolete with Astronomy
    Stele*: Obsolete with Mass Media
    Monastery: -10% Research
    Monastery: +1 Research
    Monastery: +1 Research after 1000 years
    Monastery: +1 Culture
    Monastery*: Not obsolete with Scientific Method
    Walls: +1 Trade Route
    Walls*: Not obsolete with Rifling
    Walls*: Obsolete with Economics
    Dun: +1 Trade Route
    Dun*: Not obsolete with Rifling
    Dun*: Obsolete with Economics
    Stable*: Double production speed for Aggressive leaders
    Stable*: Not obsolete with Advanced Flight
    Ger*: Double production speed for Aggressive leaders
    Ger*: Not obsolete with Advanced Flight
    Madrassa: +1 Culture
    Cothon: -20 Production Cost
    Forum: +25% Great People Birth Rate
    Colosseum: +30% Culture
    Colosseum: +80 Production Cost
    Colosseum*: -50% production speed for Creative leaders
    Ball Court: +30% Culture
    Ball Court: +80 Production Cost
    Ball Court*: -50% production speed for Creative leaders
    Garden: +30% Culture
    Garden: +80 Production Cost
    Garden*: -50% production speed for Creative leaders
    Odeon: +1 Culture
    Odeon: +30% Culture
    Odeon: +80 Production Cost
    Odeon*: -50% production speed for Creative leaders
    Market: -30 Production Cost
    Forum: -30 Production Cost
    Forum: +25% Great People Birth Rate
    Hippodrome: -1 Happiness
    Hippodrome: +1 Happiness with Dye
    Castle: -1 Trade Route
    Castle: -25% Espionage
    Castle: Does not require Walls
    Castle: New Siege Weapons receive +2 Experience Points
    Castle*: Not obsolete with Economics
    Castle*: Obsolete with Physics
    Citadel: +1 Culture
    Citadel: -1 Trade Route
    Citadel: -25% Espionage
    Citadel: Does not require Walls
    Citadel*: Not obsolete with Economics
    Citadel*: Obsolete with Physics
    Courthouse: -1 Espionage
    Courthouse: +20% Espionage
    Rathaus: -1 Espionage
    Rathaus: +20% Espionage
    Sacrificial Altar: -1 Espionage
    Sacrificial Altar: +20% Espionage
    Sacrificial Altar: +25% Anger Duration from Sacrificing Population
    Ziggurat: -1 Espionage
    Ziggurat: +20% Espionage
    Ziggurat: +1 Happiness
    Cathedral: +10% Culture
    Seowon: -20 Production Cost
    Jail: +1 Espionage
    Jail: -20% Espionage
    Mausoleum: +1 Espionage
    Mausoleum: -20% Espionage
    Salon: -1 Free Artist
    Salon: +3 Culture
    Salon: +25% Great People Birth Rate
    Salon: Can turn +1 Citizen into Artist
    Military Academy: +2 Culture after 1000 years
    Bunker*: Requires Physics
    Bunker*: Does not require Electricity
    Bunker*: Double production speed for Protective leaders
    Bomb Shelter*: Requires Physics
    Bomb Shelter*: Does not require Electricity
    Bomb Shelter*: Double production speed for Protective leaders
    Hydro Plant: -25 Production Cost
    Hydro Plant*: Requires Electricity
    Hydro Plant*: Does not require Plastics
    Nuclear Plant: -50 Production Cost
    Research Institute: -2 Free Scientist
    Research Institute: Can turn +2 Citizen into Scientist
    Research Institute: -30 Production Cost
    Research Institute: +10% Research
    Research Institute*: Requires Electricity
    Research Institute*: Requires Chemistry
    Research Institute*: Does not require Superconductors


    Forbidden Palace: +1 Happiness
    Forbidden Palace: +4 Commerce
    Forbidden Palace: +2 Espionage
    Forbidden Palace: +2 Culture
    Forbidden Palace: +40 Production Cost
    Stonehenge: +4 Culture
    The Great Lighthouse: +1 Culture
    The Great Lighthouse*: +50% production speed for Organized leaders
    Moai Statues: -2 Culture
    The Temple of Artemis: +2 Culture
    The Temple of Artemis: +25% Gold
    The Temple of Artemis: Can turn +1 Citizen into Merchant
    The Temple of Artemis*: Obsolete with Corporation
    The Temple of Artemis*: Not obsolete with Scientific Method
    The Great Wall: +50% production speed for Protective leaders
    The Pyramids: +1 Culture
    The Oracle: +2 Culture
    The Colossus: +1 Culture
    The Parthenon: +2 Culture
    The Parthenon*: Not obsolete with Scientific Method
    The Statue of Zeus: +2 Culture
    Shwedagon Paya: +2 Culture
    Shwedagon Paya: -100 Production Cost
    The Hanging Gardens: +1 Culture
    The Mausoleum of Maussollos: +2 Culture
    The Great Library: +2 Culture
    The Great Library: +50 Production Cost
    The Great Library*: Not obsolete with Scientific Method
    Notre Dame: +2 Culture
    Chichen Itza: +1 Culture
    Chichen Itza: +50% production speed for Protective leaders
    Chichen Itza*: Not obsolete with Rifling
    The Sistine Chapel: +2 Culture
    The Sistine Chapel: +1 Culture from All State Religion Buildings
    Angkor Wat: +2 Happiness
    Angkor Wat: +1 Happiness with Incense
    Angkor Wat: +8 Culture
    Angkor Wat: +100 Production Cost
    Angkor Wat*: Not obsolete with Computers
    The Hagia Sophia: +2 Culture
    The Hagia Sophia: +200 Production Cost
    The Hagia Sophia*: Requires Construction
    The Hagia Sophia: Requires a riverside location.
    The Hagia Sophia: +1 production from river tiles
    Versailles: +1 Happiness
    Versailles: +6 Commerce
    Versailles: +4 Espionage
    Versailles: +6 Culture
    Versailles*: Requires Feudalism
    The Spiral Minaret: +2 Culture
    University of Sankore: +2 Culture
    The Taj Mahal: +2 Culture
    The Taj Mahal: +50 Production Cost
    West Point: +4 Culture
    West Point*: +50% production speed for Aggressive leaders
    The Pentagon*: +50% production speed for Aggressive leaders
    Standard Ethanol*: Requires Scientific Method
    Airport*: Double production speed for Aggressive leaders
    Mt. Rushmore*: +50% production speed for Aggressive leaders


    Aggressive*: 50% Faster Production of West Point
    Aggressive*: 50% Faster Production of The Pentagon
    Aggressive*: 50% Faster Production of Mt. Rushmore
    Aggressive*: Double Production Speed of Airport
    Aggressive*: Double Production Speed of Stable
    Aggressive*: Double Production Speed of Ger
    Creative*: 50% Slower Production of Colosseum
    Creative*: 50% Slower Production of Ball Court
    Creative*: 50% Slower Production of Garden
    Creative*: 50% Slower Production of Odeon
    Imperialistic: Free Promotion (Drill I) for Siege Weapons
    Organized*: 50% Faster Production of The Great Lighthouse
    Protective*: 50% Faster Production of The Great Wall
    Protective*: 50% Faster Production of Chichen Itza
    Protective*: Double Production Speed of Bunker
    Protective*: Double Production Speed of Bomb Shelter


    Slavery: +1 Upkeep Level
    Serfdom: +1 Upkeep Level
    Serfdom*: +1 Production from Lumbermill
    Serfdom*: +1 Commerce from Watermill
    Serfdom*: -1 Commerce from Farm
    Serfdom*: +1 Commerce from Town


    Farm*: -1 Commerce with Serfdom
    Town*: +1 Commerce with Serfdom
    Lumbermill*: Does not require Replaceable Parts
    Lumbermill*: Requires Machinery
    Lumbermill: -1 Production
    Lumbermill*: +1 Production with Replaceable Parts
    Lumbermill*: +1 Production with Serfdom
    Watermill*: +1 Commerce with Serfdom
    Watermill*: -1 Commerce with Electricity
    Watermill*: +1 Commerce with Plastics


    Iron Working*: Enables Samurai
    Construction*: Enables The Hagia Sophia
    Machinery*: Enables Lumbermill
    Feudalism*: Enables Versailles
    Divine Right: First to Discover Receives a Great Prophet
    Economics*: Obsoletes Walls
    Economics*: Obsoletes Dun
    Economics*: Does not obsolete Castle
    Economics*: Does not obsolete Citadel
    Replaceable Parts*: Does not enable Lumbermill
    Replaceable Parts*: +1 Production from Lumbermill
    Rifling*: Does not obsolete Walls
    Rifling*: Does not obsolete Dun
    Rifling*: Does not obsolete Chichen Itza
    Astronomy*: Does not obsolete Monument
    Astronomy*: Does not obsolete Obelisk
    Astronomy*: Does not obsolete Stele
    Corporation*: Obsoletes The Temple of Artemis
    Chemistry*: Enables Research Institute
    Scientific Method*: Does not obsolete Monastery
    Scientific Method*: Does not obsolete The Temple of Artemis
    Scientific Method*: Does not obsolete The Parthenon
    Scientific Method*: Does not obsolete The Great Library
    Scientific Method*: Enables Standard Ethanol
    Physics*: Enables Bunker
    Physics*: Enables Bomb Shelter
    Physics*: Obsoletes Castle
    Physics*: Obsoletes Citadel
    Electricity*: -1 Commerce from Watermill
    Electricity*: Enables Hydro Plant
    Electricity*: Enables Research Institute
    Electricity*: Does not enable Bunker
    Electricity*: Does not enable Bomb Shelter
    Plastics*: +1 Commerce from Watermill
    Plastics*: Does not enable Hydro Plant
    Mass Media*: Obsoletes Monument
    Mass Media*: Obsoletes Obelisk
    Mass Media*: Obsoletes Stele
    Computers*: Does not obsolete Angkor Wat
    Advanced Flight*: Does not obsolete Stable
    Advanced Flight*: Does not obsolete Ger
    Superconductors*: Does not enable Research Institute


    Forest: +0.2 Health in nearby cities
    Drill II: Heals Extra 10% Damage/Turn in Neutral Lands
    Drill III: Heals Extra 10% Damage/Turn in Enemy Lands
    Judaism: Founder receives +1 Jewish Missionary
    Confucianism: Founder receives +1 Confucian Missionary
    Taoism: Founder receives +2 Taoist Missionary
    Christianity: Founder receives +2 Christian Missionary
    Islam: Founder receives +2 Islamic Missionary

    *: Indicates changes that are listed twice

    Attached Files:

  2. Zholef

    Zholef Warlord

    Feb 20, 2014
    Changelog for v0.02:

    Changed Chichen Itza culture from 1 to 6 as was intended in v0.01.
    Updated included map script Caldera from v1.0 to v1.1.
  3. Zacar

    Zacar Warlord

    Jan 7, 2006
    Probably can't comment on everything at once.

    Versailles benefit is just positively better now. Not so sure about Hagia Sophia. Do they require the listed techs in addition, or do these tech requirements replace the old ones?

    About giving cargo room for various ships; does the AI treat certain ships as warships and others as transporters? If so, I'm not sure if it is a good idea to blur that line. Though various ships could definitely thematically carry spies and such light cargo still. Perhaps not an issue.

    I assume that change to Numidian cavalry is a nerf? If not, I would recommend its original form as it works quite nicely. Monastery changes look bad. Drill II & III changes do not go with the theme. I don't quite get the production penalty for Creative. Thematically IMP could probably use some more offensive siege promotion than Drill. The wonders that AGG produces faster now - could as well rename it "American" trait :D.
  4. f1rpo

    f1rpo plastics

    May 22, 2014
    Thanks for sharing!

    I'm wondering that too, if the AI can handle the additional cargo ships. It's an interesting change, one I haven't seen proposed before. The various tweaked numbers look good (though I'm not really qualified to say). Monasteries not becoming obsolete and Cavalry upgrading to Tanks seem like a big changes flavor-wise. About Monasteries, I recall this suggestion from page 2 of the K-Mod main thread:
  5. Zholef

    Zholef Warlord

    Feb 20, 2014
    That's alright, I didn't come up with all of that in a day either. Some of them took a lot of pondering and can't be fully appreciated unless one sees the whole picture. Others are as superficial as they seem. Take your time.

    Yes, I tried to really buff Divine Right. May have overdone it, not sure. Considering that it's in direct competition with Liberalism, it's probably still a bit weak even with the free Great Prophet. Adding Versailles' extra requirement (yes, these are on top of the normal requirements) was a last minute addition. Historically these wonders would have needed those techs, but they could be removed again to make the wonders stronger. I mainly added the Construction requirement to the Sophia because I was afraid it would be too powerful, especially considering the other Theology wonder is the mighty AP.

    The AI is actually more complicated than that and quite adaptive. I ran some tests and was surprised how well it coped with the changes. I observed the AI dropping Galleons full of Knights and Trebuchets along with two Macemen transported in the escorting Frigates.

    If you're playing Immortal or Deity, the changes to the Numidian are a nerf. If you're playing below that, they're a buff. You decide. Horse archers are strong either way.

    I'm not perfectly happy with the Monastery changes either, but I wanted them to not obsolete with Scientific Method and in front of that background, the +10% Research was too powerful. I'm open to suggestions, of course.

    Similar situation with the Drill promotions. They are weak, but making them better in a way that doesn't screw something else up isn't exactly easy.

    As for the production penalty for Creative, that's actually just a bonus reduction. Look at the changes to the Colosseum. That is one of the key changes: My attempt at restoring the balance lost through K-Mod's changes to the culture mechanic. As a result, you may have noticed, I could restore a lot of buildings to the culture values they had in stock BtS.

    What other promotion would you suggest for the Imperialistic trait?

    Yes, lots of American wonders accelerated for the Aggressive trait, but what did you expect? Only about have the wonders in the game are American...

    That about the ships, I answered above. As for the monasteries, I considered something similar, but I wouldn't know how to do that without changing the DLL, and that's a can of worms I'd rather not open.
  6. Zacar

    Zacar Warlord

    Jan 7, 2006
    For IMP, City Raider I (or Barrage I) would fit best I think. Those lead to Accuracy. This way IMP would assist in founding or capturing cities.

    Divine Right and Theology I usually skip in my games, unless I decide to have a game with a religious theme. I don't think you can make them too good accidentally. Free GP from DR is good. If these techs had only one wonder, it would basically go to the first one who discovers them (I assume..) and as such these techs would be good only if you are the first one to get them.. At first I thought that adding extra tech requirements for these wonders would be good, as it may improve the chances of someone else building them, but I'm not sure, it may even do the reverse. For a late discovery, Theology can be useful for a SPI leader, and DR is useless.

    I would almost make DR a cheaper tech and throw Versailles to Monarchy with an additional requirement. DR still requires Theo and has Spiral power for the lone discoverer. But it would cause Islam to be founded too early, thematically (also affects supposed spread rate modifier).

    Similar to Versailles, Angkor Wat seems to have these fun one-city bonuses that are so rare in world wonders. Chichen Itza remains rather uninteresting.

    Hagia Sophia in isolation is not too strong, considering it gets obsolete. With AP, the question is, does one civ get them both or do they go to different civs? If they tend to go to one civ, extra tech requirement makes sense.. if not, it is not necessary and just makes the wonder last less time. I wonder if just giving more worker production bonus would be better though. It would be a bit silly to get slower workers with Steam Power, but gameplay-wise a few efficient workers would be more attractive than a large army of gold eating non-military folk. River bonus works but I'm not sure how fun it is.

    On Numidian the change means less differentiation between units. I probably consider it a nerf in any case, as it is a less universal troop now (yet superior to HAs, and now better against stacks without spears). Keshiks (also nerfed, for someone like me who takes Flanking) are a bit poor in comparison, either way. Well, balance-wise you can do anything you want with Numidian (e.g. remove them :lol:) and Hannibal will stay good, not so sure about Mongols.

    On monasteries. Why don't you want them to obsolete? IIRC, you can still build missionaries even after SciMet if there is an old monastery (am I wrong?). If so, I think they could go obsolete. Thematically monasteries could give one hammer, one beaker and some culture, and that, I think, would be fine. But the original monasteries seem OK to me as well. Extra beaker after a long time doesn't really feel significant to me in any way. But all that depends on what monasteries should be. Missionary-allowers? A light mixed bag of bonuses for folks who managed to gain a religion? Could they give bonuses only as long as you have a state religion selected?

    On Drill, should something be done to the promotion tree to help that promotion line? Do we have some math in some thread that examines how weak or strong Drill is..? Or are they weak because some units are Immune to first strikes?
  7. Zholef

    Zholef Warlord

    Feb 20, 2014
    Yes, if you're lucky enough to have built a monastery of a particular religion before SM, you can still use it later, which just makes monastery obsoletion even stupider. If something is obsolete, it should no longer function and something else should be there to replace it, which there isn't. The only way of spreading religions past SM that may be left to you is OR, which is also stupid. Why should OR be more suited to spreading religion than Free Religion? What real countries have the greatest religions diversity? Countries without freedom of religion? The main reasons, however, for me wanting monasteries not to go obsolete is my disapproval of graceless obsoletions (e.g., Great Library going obsolete with SM, graceless; Hagia Sophia going obsolete with SP, graceful). They cause the player to avoid certain techs under certain conditions. Doing that for the purpose of bulbing is already silly, but to not research something so your stuff continues to work is positively insane. That's just bad game design.

    Another problem I have with the original monasteries is that they make most sense in commerce or science cities, which makes no sense historically. Monastics historically sought out remote places, bringing with them their religion, culture and modest education opportunities for the local population. That's one reason why I think yields make more sense than modifiers for monasteries. Gameplaywise, in my opinion, they should serve to spread religion and help small, remote cities in culture battles. Yields make them easier affordable for such cities than tiny modifiers. In their current configuration, for example, you might, given a particular city, value the two culture points and the one research point the same as two hammers. Then you'd have your investment on the monastery back in thirty turns. Having monasteries yield extra hammers or gold or even commerce (akin to cottage improvements) are all options. I'm just not yet sure how much exactly they should get, which may be because I somewhat lack experience in that regard. When faced with culture pressure, I tend to react by building more military.

    Unfortunately, I don't think that's possible without changing the DLL.

    Yes, there's quite a bit in forum threads and among the War Academy articles. I also ran World Builder tests of my own. Basically, disregarding some special cases, Drill is only superior to Combat or specialized promotions when your unit already has the advantage (e.g., Longbowmen in cities on hills defending against Axemen). When going up against more powerful units (e.g., Longbowmen vs. Macemen in the open), then the difference the Drill promotions make shrivel significantly. The reduced collateral damage aspect can be interesting when defending or when your opponent has no mounted units, but that's, again, very circumstantial. In general, you're unlikely to regret promoting Combat instead of Drill, which makes not promoting Drill an easy decision, and easy choices are, in my opinion, a bad thing in a game that's all about making good decisions.
  8. Zacar

    Zacar Warlord

    Jan 7, 2006
    On drill, I can see two paths: either alter the promotion tree so that Combat is not obviously better, or increase Drill bonus to start its progression from +1 First Strike, so half strike further bonus.

    On monasteries, I think the original logic goes with "religion allows instant bonuses vs science allows long-term benefit". Just like going DR is suboptimal vs Lib, a religious playstyle strays you away from science, allowing you monastery science boost for less scientific tech paths. Also, it slightly increases the value of a religious playstyle when pagans going SciMet have a harder time gathering the benefits of multiple religions. In general I agree with you with gracelessness being a bad thing, but I'd think of this as a good exception.

    You mentioned bulbing. In a way it would be cool if settling GPs was more attractive than it is now. Now the best uses are clearly shrine/corp, golden age and bulbing. If you dislike bulb-management, perhaps having less techs in the bulb tree would make it more relaxed, though not sure if the game allows the occasional situation of no bulbable techs.
  9. Zholef

    Zholef Warlord

    Feb 20, 2014
    Not sure what you mean by the former, considering that K-Mod already did that. As for adding more First Strikes, I've tried that. It makes Drills much stronger in the rare situations where they already are strong, but not much more so in situations where they're not.

    I think the Drill promotion line was conceived as a generalist defensive counterpart to the generalist aggressive Combat promotions. It just didn't turn out very well because there's too many situations in which these promotions are simply weak. Perhaps letting them heal faster in friendly territory is worth considering.

    I'm sorry, but I don't get what you're trying to say here.

    No, bulbing is fine by me. Things like avoiding Fishing so one can bulb Engineering are a bit silly, but it's too integral a part of the game than that I'd want to mess with it.

    As for settling GPs, I think that's strong enough, considering it's the fallback option that ensures GPs are always at least somewhat useful.
  10. Zholef

    Zholef Warlord

    Feb 20, 2014
    A minor update occurred. Changelog in second post.
  11. lucidstorm

    lucidstorm Chieftain

    Dec 25, 2016
    Hej I think there is a mayor problem with the mod and that is the catapult/any other siege weapon damage problem and that they don't die,

    I play on deity giving myself 15 ancient base buildings via game builder in the one city capitol (seems like much but it ain't with that setting, the game just too hard anyway but it's more fun to play this way for the massive AI bonuses,if you have all science buildings unlocked the AI is still faster in research with massive cities spam). No quechua rush just normal game.

    the enemy ends up attacking me with a huge army in late medieval game or when I research grenadier unit, let's say I have 10 super trained archers with everything unlocked, the enemy attacks me with siege weapons (trebuchet), no enemy trebuchet dies but 1-2: my defending forces are seriously crippled so my 6 promotions for archers are garbage (even a prehistoric unit can kill me)

    I repeat almost no enemy siege died in the process, so please balance this thing out the siege is just OP, -2 on health or bigger dying probability (at least look into it), now I know if I want to win I can go 10 maceman vs 10 super trained rifleman just bring 6 trebuchet, something is off, try play with my setting and experience the trebuchet spam. I don't remember this in other game mods or vanilla and I have like 2.000 hours vs AI on all levels with or without game builder. That is to say: 1) I am not a total noob 2) the super trained archers units like longbowman on hills should at least kill some trebuchet but they don't (WTF)

    also the leaving vassal state is happening way too often, ''you're no longer able to protect us'' whilst I have an army of 20 grenadiers and the enemy just archers

    btw. I love k-mod for the AI challenge, really a huge improvement, I seem to like other balances but the praetorian (which is sacred, you should never touch my fav unit haha:)

    please make this great mod even greater
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2017
    jmas likes this.
  12. Zholef

    Zholef Warlord

    Feb 20, 2014
    Oh, I didn't think anyone was actually playing with this little experiment of mine (which has since greatly changed in an unreleased version on my hard drive).

    Anyway, I'm not convinced that this is a balance problem (as opposed to a realism problem). Nor would I know how to fix it if I was convinced. The thing is that allowing units on the same plot to defend each other (which allows the forming of "stacks of doom") gives defending units an extreme advantage that somehow needs to be counterbalanced. "Collateral damage" is how the designers of Civ4 have done that.

    So if siege units were significantly weakened, the advantage in any war would shift to whoever can produce the biggest army at the expense of players who cunningly use collateral damage and "flank attack" units.

    Siege units are expensive, slow and weak on defense (trebs are even only good for attacking cities and forts). Opposing siege units in your territory are what make you need and want to not hide behind your city walls. The 10 "super trained riflemen" in your example could simply kill the 10 macemen in the field and watch the 6 trebs run for safety. Although, writing this, I'm thinking maybe their max. damage could be reduced slightly to lessen the impact of mass siege unit attacks. I'll definitely look into that.

    In the meantime, thanks for your interest and suggestions.
  13. lucidstorm

    lucidstorm Chieftain

    Dec 25, 2016
    I like all other ideas of yours like monastery not becoming obsolete,
    (also I would leave the economic bonus and spy bonus on the castle which makes logical sense, the castle was the focal point in a medieval city and the centre of power similar to the palace in the game, leaving castle at just + culture is plain wrong in my opinion, should be more production cost, more aforementioned bonuses).

    last suggestion is if you could implement the ''cease bothering us'' line in the diplomacy interface (the one under the animated leaders, I think revolution DCM has it), the AI seems harassing me way too often and that ruins the flow (I don't want to use the stop trading, I still want to trade and bully the AI)

    cheers and good day to you (now I know that the only mod I will be playing is your mod and I;d love see it improved)
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
  14. Zholef

    Zholef Warlord

    Feb 20, 2014
    Sorry for the late reply...

    I'm looking into the "cease bothering us" thing. I suppose that's useful when you play with lots of civs. Personally, I almost never play with more than eight, so I've never been too annoyed by AI requests.
  15. keldath

    keldath LivE LonG AnD PrOsPeR

    Dec 20, 2005

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