Atlas627
Deity
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2011
- Messages
- 2,930
So many responses, and it seems everybody is misunderstanding on some level (including myself if I am wrong about this).
CiV is beautifully simplistic. I like it. But if the mod doesn't change something, what is the point of it? Adding governments to the game makes it no longer CiV, it is instead CiV plus governments. And while that should still be simple and elegant, it does not need to be more of the same.
Adding a governance yield is within the scope of the game. Creating government types and civics is within the scope of the game. Revolution, ruling parties, anarchy, and everything we have mentioned so far is within the scope of the game. The problem lies in implementing it elegantly. This is where abstract ideas come into play.
For example, there is a nice, simple way of incorporation ruling parties into our system. You abstract them using the civics. What civics your nation adopts represents what party is in power. Fine. So you have a government with different ideals (aka government with different ruler).
Revolution and anarchy can also be put into the same system as governance yields: changing government/civics. Governance yields themselves are abstract!
This is not CiV. This is CiV plus a mod. That makes it CiV with governments.
@NPComplete: I think your ideas are great, we just need to simplify them. Make them abstract and elegant. Keep suggesting ideas, it never hurts.
@Mitsho: Though we cannot agree on the definition of Democracy in real life, this is a game. You can do whatever the hell you want in a game. And we need (for gameplay reasons) a government for tall empires. And we should give that flavor if we can. And we can, by agreeing to define, for the purposes of this mod only, the definition of Democracy. That is why I bothered arguing about it.
@Bwoww and JohnS: I think we are in agreement, but it seems as though your posts were in direct response to mine as I had made the most recent post.
@JohnS: There can be multiple mods. One that is simple and one that is complex. As I said in my most recent post, it is certainly possible to make a mod that satisfies the hardcore gamers, and also make one that satisfies more casual gamers. I stated that it would be much easier to make a simple version of the mod first. Then we can 'change' it later (aka just make a new one that is more complex, no need to delete the old one). So you still get what you want. Is there a problem with this?
I do not want governments to be the same as policies. They should not be easy decisions that 'reward' our playstyle. They should change our playstyle. They should force us to make decisions, not just give us bonuses to the things we already wanted anyway. In other words, forcing the player to make a decision they didn't want to have to worry about is good. If the governments do not change the game, then they are just there for flavor, are they not? If you want a mod for flavor, we can do that too, but you can always use your imagination for that.
CiV is beautifully simplistic. I like it. But if the mod doesn't change something, what is the point of it? Adding governments to the game makes it no longer CiV, it is instead CiV plus governments. And while that should still be simple and elegant, it does not need to be more of the same.
Adding a governance yield is within the scope of the game. Creating government types and civics is within the scope of the game. Revolution, ruling parties, anarchy, and everything we have mentioned so far is within the scope of the game. The problem lies in implementing it elegantly. This is where abstract ideas come into play.
For example, there is a nice, simple way of incorporation ruling parties into our system. You abstract them using the civics. What civics your nation adopts represents what party is in power. Fine. So you have a government with different ideals (aka government with different ruler).
Revolution and anarchy can also be put into the same system as governance yields: changing government/civics. Governance yields themselves are abstract!
This is not CiV. This is CiV plus a mod. That makes it CiV with governments.
@NPComplete: I think your ideas are great, we just need to simplify them. Make them abstract and elegant. Keep suggesting ideas, it never hurts.
@Mitsho: Though we cannot agree on the definition of Democracy in real life, this is a game. You can do whatever the hell you want in a game. And we need (for gameplay reasons) a government for tall empires. And we should give that flavor if we can. And we can, by agreeing to define, for the purposes of this mod only, the definition of Democracy. That is why I bothered arguing about it.
@Bwoww and JohnS: I think we are in agreement, but it seems as though your posts were in direct response to mine as I had made the most recent post.
@JohnS: There can be multiple mods. One that is simple and one that is complex. As I said in my most recent post, it is certainly possible to make a mod that satisfies the hardcore gamers, and also make one that satisfies more casual gamers. I stated that it would be much easier to make a simple version of the mod first. Then we can 'change' it later (aka just make a new one that is more complex, no need to delete the old one). So you still get what you want. Is there a problem with this?
I do not want governments to be the same as policies. They should not be easy decisions that 'reward' our playstyle. They should change our playstyle. They should force us to make decisions, not just give us bonuses to the things we already wanted anyway. In other words, forcing the player to make a decision they didn't want to have to worry about is good. If the governments do not change the game, then they are just there for flavor, are they not? If you want a mod for flavor, we can do that too, but you can always use your imagination for that.
