More leaders?

[Llotyhy]

I've been working on a mod for myself to include some more leaders for countries that really need two. So far I've added:

Philip II of Spain
Ramesses II of Egpyt
Pericles of Greece
Trajan of Rome
Itzcoatl of Aztec

These leaders have still pictures in diplomacy, buttons, civilopedia entries, own traits and flavors, own favourite civics, own war-rand ratings etc.

I was planning to make leaders until every Civ has two leaders... and maybe make some more that are really necessary. Apart from that, the mod will contain all the standard game rules.

What I wanted to ask... is anyone interested in a mod like this? (I.e. should I go through the trouble of making it downloadable here? )

Let me know please!

Greetings.

 

[Kenric af Grashen]

hmmm a mod to add more leaders sounds good to me!

 

[sovarn]

more variety is always welcome

 

[Rabbit_Alex]

I remember reading another post like this where someone wanted to add more leaders to the game. They had a long list of leaders. Perhaps try to find that post and maybe you can work with someone else on your idea.

 

[Wyz_sub10]

In talking about adding some additional leaders to my Canadian mod (to have 4 total), I noted that an overhaul for all leaders would be a good idea.

I support this 100%. Let me know if you need a hand.

I would suggest adding Lincoln for the US, Louis XIV for France, among others.

 

[Rhye]

QUOTE=Wyz_sub10]
I would suggest adding Louis XIV for France[/QUOTE]

 

[Ghost]

france already has luis XIV

did u mean luis XVI?

Make some of them creative because i like to play with a creative leader and it really limits my civ choises

 

[Wyz_sub10]

...if he hadn't been added straight away by Firaxis. (D-OH!)

Yeah, I had originally said both - XIV and XVI - and then erased XVI. It completely slipped my mind that Louis XIV was in the damn game already.

 

[Ghost]

heh well louis XVI and Hitler would be fun


EDIT: and dont forget Lenin and Stalin for Russia/Soviet Union

 

[Wyz_sub10]

Well, that's the thing - some things are santinized, others are not. The truth is that guys like Mao are in because most of the west doesn't know or doesn't care about those atrocities. But they do kow and care about Hitler.

You could look at several of the existing leaders and see some real butchers. But it was "so long ago" that they've become myths - characters in some story. So people don't take excpetion to them being there.

 

[Llotyhy]

I'm just making it for myself and will share it with you guys, no intention of creating an entire expansion or something...

In addition to the five up there I added Mutsuhito (The Meiji Emperor) of Japan.

Leaders I will add for sure are:

Sundiata Keita of Mali
Darius of Persia
Muhammad of Arabia
Pachacuti of Inca

In addition to the five up there every Civilization will have 2 leaders...

Leaders that really can't be missing in my opinion are (I'm not sure if I'll add them though):

Adolf Hitler of Germany
Joszef Stalin of Russia
Abraham Lincoln of America

Apart from that, some optional ones are:

Marcus Aurelius of Rome
Xerxes of Persia
Winston Churchill of England


But I'm not sure how much time I want to put into it... I'll do those four for sure though.

 

[Ghost]

I aggree with putting hitler in because firaxis didnt put him in only because he was a dictator that the world hates. I think even though he was a horrible person he still deserves his spot in history and in civ.

For russia both Stalin and Lennin cant be missed. They both played a great part in the history of Russia

 

[Llotyhy]

Make some of them creative because i like to play with a creative leader and it really limits my civ choises

So far creative are:
Pericles of Greece
Trajan of Rome


Sundiata Keita of Mali is finished as well now btw.

 

[Hastur]

I've been working on a list (mostly for myself because I don't absolutely want to commit to developing a mod for public consumption in case work overwhelms my life). My initial intention was to increase each civilization to 6 leaders each. I've got the leader list and am working through assigning traits and collecting static pictures of each. Then the long slog through the xml to insert the leaders. And no, I don't intend to make 3d leader heads for these mainly because I'm a lousy 3d artist. Here's the list with links to biographical data except for those included in the game itself:

[size=-1]Chief Joseph America http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_Joseph
Franklin D. Roosevelt America
George Washington America
Deganawidah America http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Peacemaker
Lincoln America http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln
Theodore Roosevelt America http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Roosevelt
Al-Hadi Arab http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Hadi
Al-Mansur Arab http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mansur
Baibars Arab http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baibars
Haroun al-Raschid Arab http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haroun_al-Raschid
Saladin Arab
Saphadin Arab http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Adil_I
Auitzotl Aztec http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auitzotl
Benito Juarez Aztec http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benito_Juárez
Huitzilihuitl Aztec http://www.famousamericans.net/huitzilihuitl/
Montezuma Aztec
Pancho Villa Aztec http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pancho_Villa
Santa Anna Aztec http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_López_de_Santa_Anna
Kangxi China http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kangxi
Liu Bei China http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liu_Bei
Mao Zedong China
Qin Shi Huang China
Wu China http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wudi
Yu China http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yu_the_Great
Akhenaten Egypt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akhenaten
Cleopatra Egypt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleopatra_VII
Hatshepsut Egypt
Khufu Egypt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khufu
Ptolemy II Egypt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ptolemy_II_of_Egypt
Ramesses II Egypt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramesses_II
Elizabeth England
Henry II England http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_II_of_England
Oliver Cromwell England http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Cromwell
Richard the Lionhearted England http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_I_of_England
Victoria England
William the Conquerer England http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_the_Conqueror
Charlemagne France http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlemagne
Henry IV France http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_IV_of_France
Joan of Arc France http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_of_Arc
Louis XIV France
Napoleon France
Richelieu France http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardinal_Richelieu
Arminius Germany http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arminius
Bismarck Germany
Frederick Germany
Hindenburg Germany http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_von_Hindenburg
Barbarossa Germany http://www.authorama.com/famous-men-of-the-middle-ages-22.html
Ludwig II Germany http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Ludwig_II_of_Bavaria
Agamemnon Greece http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Agamemnon
Alexander Greece
Cleisthenes Greece http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleisthenes
Leonidas Greece http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonidas_I
Pericles Greece http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pericles
Phillip Greece http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_II_of_Macedon
Huayna Capac Inca
Jose de San Martin Inca http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/José_de_San_Martín
Manco Capac Inca http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manco_Capac
Pachacuti Inca http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pachacuti
Simon Bolivar Inca http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simón_Bolívar
Tupac Amaru Inca http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupac_Amaru_II
Akbar India http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akbar
Asoka India
Chandragupta India http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chandragupta_Maurya
Gandhi India
Samudragupta India http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samudragupta
Shivaji Bhonsle India http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shivaji
Isoroku Yamamoto Japan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamamoto_Isoroku
Oda Nobunaga Japan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oda_Nobunaga
Takamori Saigo Japan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takamori_Saigo
Tokugawa Japan
Tokugawa Ienobu Japan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokugawa_Ienobu
Toyotomi Hidyoshi Japan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyotomi_Hideyoshi
Askia Mohammed Mali http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Askia_Mohammed
Maghan Mali http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maghan
Mansa Musa Mali
Sakura Mansa Mali http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sakura_(mansa)
Sonni Ali Mali http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonni_Ali
Sundiata Keita Mali http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sundiata_Keita
Batu Khan Mongol http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batu_Khan
Genghis Khan Mongol
Kublai Khan Mongol
Ogedei Khan Mongol http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ögedei_Khan
Subutai Mongol http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subutai
Timur Mongol http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timur
Boran Persia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purandokht
Cyrus Persia
Darius Persia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darius_I
Khosrau Persia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khosrau_I
Shapur Persia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shapur_I
Xerxes Persia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerxes_I
Augustus Rome http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustus
Claudius Rome http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claudius
Hadrian Rome http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadrian
Julius Caesar Rome
Theodosius Rome http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodosius_the_Great
Trajan Rome http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trajan
Alexander Nevsky Russia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Nevsky
Catherine Russia
Ivan III Russia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_III
Peter Russia
Vladimir Russia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Vladimir
Yaroslav Russia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaroslav
Alfonso XII Spain http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfonso_XII_of_Spain
Ferdinand II Spain http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinand_II_of_Aragon
Isabella Spain
Pelayo Spain http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelayo
Philip II Spain http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_II_of_Spain
Sancho III Spain http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sancho_III_of_Navarre
[/size]

Please note that I used some leaders from the region of the civilization but from before or after the civilization was known by that name... for example Chief Joseph for America or Simon Bolivar for the Inca.

One last note... my apologies that the list isn't tabular formatted but I don't know how to do that with these forums.

Any thoughts?

 

[Hastur]

Oh... a couple things I should note:

1. I deliberately avoided leaders who were predominately active after WWI in order to avoid undue political controversy.
2. I did include a few leaders just because of their notoriety such as Ludwig the Mad and Santa Anna even though history hasn't been good to them.
3. I did make one exception on the "not post WWI" rule... Yamamoto.

Again, feel free to comment on the list as you will. And as I said before since I'm doing this mostly for myself and my other half, I've been assigning traits and have half the list done and should have the other half done by tomorrow night.

Enjoy!

 

[Llotyhy]

Thanks! I'll take a look at your list!

 

[Llotyhy]

I've taken a look at it... I kinda like it, however, I'll not do the exact thing.

For example, I think Hitler should be in it no matter what, he's one of the most important men of the 20th century, and should make for an interesting leader (nice warrand's and such ).

Does it really matter if one Civ has more than another? For example, isn't two Mali leaders enough? The rest is quite unimportant anyway...

 

[Hastur]

My main thought in trying to give each civ more leaders was to open up alternate trait options for each civ. For instance, I'm just not that personally fond of the Organized trait so that means I don't tend to play as Americans or Japanese since they only have leaders with the Organized trait.

And you're right about some civs just not having many real options for "great" leaders. Mali's a pain in the a** but believe it or not Germany and Spain were my worst headaches. Take a look at a list of Castillian monarchs some time and you'll find king after king with nicknames like "the bastard", "the infirm", "the cruel" and so on. And the rest of Spain isn't much better. After Ferdinand and Isabella Spain just went downhill fast.

As for Germany, it seems to have spent most of the last 2000 years as part of some other country (Austria-Hungary, the Holy Roman Empire, France as East Franconia, and so on). Finding decent leaders that are distinctively German is not easy.

A few others were difficult in the opposite direction... so MANY qualified candidates. America and England were prime examples of this with Rome following close on their heels. I had to stick with distinctly English rather than Brittish monarchs or I never would have been able to narrow the list with candidates like Robert the Bruce, William Wallace, Boudicca, Owain Glyndwr, and so on.

And just for reference, if anyone out there makes a Sweden/Scandinavia/Viking civ, PLEASE include Gustavus Adolphus as a leader!

 

[Llotyhy]

I am not specifically making a leader to fill a trait-position though... I like it to be as realistic as possible, so I always look at the life of the leader, and the history of that period (I study history), and then decide what kind of traits the leader had. But of course, all traits are represented somewhere...

 

[Hastur]

I absolutely agree with you. Most of the traits are pretty straightforward in identifying...

Aggressive - Used war extensively to expand the borders of their civ.

Creative - Patrons of the arts and/or focused heavily on creating/enhancing national identity.

Expansive - This one I'm having a harder time nailing down. The word suggests one who uses whatever means to expand their civ but the bonus promotes larger cities. I've predominately been looking for leaders that enhanced infrastructure and/or founded new cities for this trait.

Financial - Promoted economic welfare within their civ. From what I've seen, these leaders tended to be rarer than the others.

Industrial - The wonder builders.

Organized - Given the benefit within the game, I've been defining this as leaders that reorganized their government extensively.

Philosophical - Again a trait where the word means one thing but the game effect is different. I've been defining this one as leaders who tended to gather great thinkers and the like around themselves.

Spiritual - This one at least describes itself well.

The main difficulty I've encountered is that by far most of the "great leaders" of the world tend to fall under the Aggressive trait.

And being honest, in the trait assignment I'm doing, I've had to give some leaders traits that are lesser aspects of their personality and reign simply to avoid having 70% or more having the aggressive trait. I've also looked for some leaders that aren't quite as commonly known because they exemplify a particular trait. And in some cases I've included leaders who weren't necessarily "great leaders" simply because they are such icons in history (Ludwig the Mad is a great example of this).

I guess what it comes down to is you and I are doing the same thing, adding leaders, but with two very different approaches and rationales. It seems to me that you're adding leaders who were the world-shakers of their time and people who would be cool to play or play against with less focus on what civs get more or less. Whereas my focus has been on improving the selection of leaders available to a civ. I don't think one is necessarily better than the other... just different approaches. And I'm *very* interested in seeing what you come up with. You've chosen some people I hadn't thought of and I'm looking forward to seeing what you do with them.