Kafka2
Whale-raping abomination
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Mormon War
- Thread starter Kafka2
- Start date
Kafka2
Whale-raping abomination
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2001
- Messages
- 1,204
There's an excellent book recently published that explores the murkier side of Mormonism.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos...43360/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_3_1/026-4084350-9150047
The problem is that Mormonism was brought about by decidedly dubious characters, and some of it's tenets are prime fodder for violent fundamentalists.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos...43360/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_3_1/026-4084350-9150047
The problem is that Mormonism was brought about by decidedly dubious characters, and some of it's tenets are prime fodder for violent fundamentalists.
Pangur Bán
Deconstructed
andrewgprv, you really ought to make repost all that as a seperate article. 
andrewgprv
Second Class Citizen
In the 1820s a man named Joseph Smith started the Mormon religion in New York state. Smith based the religion on what he said were god's words to the ancient people of America. Many people became members of the Mormon church. Other people laughed at some of their different beliefs. This led to trouble. Smith had to move his people many times. For a while, they settled in Illinois state, in a town they built and called Nauvoo. The church split when Joseph Smith said that Mormons could have more than one wife. The split led to violence and great public opposition to the Mormons. Smith was arrested and put in jail. A mob attacked the jail and killed Smith and his brother. The governor of Illinois ordered the Mormons to leave.
Brigham Young became the new leader of the Mormons. He told his people that he had seen their new home in a dream. He said it was a wide, beautiful valley in the west. He said he would recognize it when he saw it. The Mormons left Illinois in the spring of 1846. There were more than 15,000 people, and many wagons and farm animals. The trip west was hard. Many of the people died. After months of slow travel, they stopped to make their winter camp. Reportedly the findings of the expeditions of General John C. Fremont in 1844 and 1845 were instrumental in attracting the Mormons into this domain of Indians and fur trappers.
Explorers visited the camp. They told Brigham Young about a great salt lake in a wide valley on the western side of the Rocky Mountains. From the way they described it, Young believed it was the valley of his dream. He started to move his people toward the Great Salt Lake as soon as the winter snows melted. They arrived in the summer of 1847. Brigham Young looked out over the valley. "This," he said, "is the right place." The Mormons wasted no time. Two hours after arriving, they began to prepare the ground for planting. The lake water was too salty to use. So they built a system of canals to bring water down from the mountains. The first few years were difficult. Cold weather and insects destroyed their crops. Yet the Mormons continued to work hard to make their settlement a success. They refused to think of leaving.
After years of persecution in the Midwest they realized the advantages of self-government, but the land they had come to belonged to Mexico. In 1848 the United States won the Mexican War, and the Treaty of Guadalupe-Hidalgo was signed which ceded Utah to the United States.
At first, the Mormons were ruled only by the laws of their church and by their leader. Then gold was discovered in California. Many non-Mormons passed through the Salt Lake area on their way to the gold fields. Some of them stayed. It soon became clear that new laws were needed to govern the growing population.
The Mormons asked Congress to approve a territorial government for their land. In 1849 a constitutional convention proposed the State of Deseret, a Mormon word meaning "honey bee." The Mormons claimed a large area. It encompassed the entire Great Basin and east to the Continental Divide, including, besides the present state of Utah, most of present Nevada and Arizona and parts of southern California (with the port of San Diego), Wyoming, Colorado, New Mexico, Oregon, and Idaho. The US Senate passed a bill in 1850 providing for the organization of Utah Territory, though shrinking its borders. The US Congress to accept the name Deseret. Instead, Congress called it Utah, after the Ute tribe of native American indians that lived there. One reason for the refusal of Congress to grant statehood to Deseret was the lack of 60,000 eligible voters required for admission as a state. Moreover, Congress objected to the huge size of the proposed state.
As a compromise, Brigham Young was named governor of the new Utah territory. Most of the new territorial officials were Mormons, too. Only four were not Mormon.
Governing the territory was not easy. There were disputes during the administrations of several American presidents. As a result of one dispute, the four non-Mormon officials returned to Washington. The Mormons then formed their own territorial government with a legislature and courts. Other federal officials were sent to Utah. Some of them were not prepared for the job. Usually, they did not stay long.
Some of the officials made many charges against Brigham Young and other Mormon leaders. They said Mormons refused to recognize the power of the federal government. They said Mormons put the words of Young above the laws of congress. They said the church had a secret organization to take the lives and property of those who questioned the power of the church. There were charges that Mormons had burned the papers of the supreme court of the territory. And there were charges that Mormons were responsible for indian attacks on some officials.
During the territorial period, from 1850 to 1895, Utah's governors were appointed by the president of the United States. With the exception of Brigham Young, all the governors were outsiders and non-Mormons. Often referred to as carpetbaggers, most had practiced law and pursued political office before arriving in Utah. A patronage appointment, the governorship of Utah was a difficult and geographically remote assignment, and some of those willing to accept posts in the western territories were of marginal ability and character.
President Franklin Pierce decided he should make someone else governor of Utah. The man he chose, however, did not want the job. Instead, he urged the president to let Brigham Young remain. President Pierce agreed.
Acting on rumors that the Mormons were rebelling against federal authority, President James Buchanan replaced Brigham Young as governor in 1857. Buchanan sent a 2,500-man military force to accompany the new governor Alfred Cumming to the territory, starting the Utah War.
The prospective Utah War in 1857 caused a population boom in Utah and Cedar Counties because many Salt Lake area residents moved south and sought refuge in Provo and nearby settlements. But the war had its biggest economic impact in Cedar County where the occupying army, under General Johnston, was settled. This was important because the U.S. Army purchased horses, food, and other supplies from the settlers, providing local residents with a monopoly on the major source of money in the entire Utah Territory.
Settlers in the town of Milton supplied feed for the horses of Mormon troops stationed in canyon passes watching for Johnston's Army. Lot Smith of Stoddard blocked Echo Canyon, burned US Army supply trains, and stampeded government horses and cattle. This forced the soldiers to stop for the winter before reaching the salt lake valley. The soldiers could do nothing until spring. The Federal troops under Cumming wintered at Camp Scott, Wyoming.
In Washington, efforts were made to settle the dispute. A man named Thomas Kane asked President Buchanan to let him go to Utah. Kane was an old friend of the President. He also was a friend of the Mormons. He had spent much time with them during their long trip to Utah ten years earlier. Kane feared what might happen to his Mormon friends if fighting started. He told President Buchanan that he did not want a job or money. He only wanted a chance to be useful. The president agreed to let him try to settle the dispute.
Thomas Kane arrived in Salt Lake City, the territorial capital, early in 1858. He found that the Mormons had decided not to fight. Instead, they were preparing to search for a new home. They talked of moving to Mexico or perhaps to an island in the South Pacific.
When the Federal troops finally marched through Salt Lake City on June 26, 1858, they found it abandoned by the Mormons. On orders of Brigham Young, Salt Lake City was almost abandoned when Cumming arrived. The army proceeded to a site 40 miles southwest of the capital where they built Camp Floyd. Cumming was determined to avoid violence, and the so-called Utah War was quickly settled. Kane talked with Brigham Young. Then he went to the army camp to talk with Governor Cumming. The governor agreed to go to Salt Lake City with Kane. The two men went alone, without any soldiers.
The Mormons welcomed Cumming, but continued their preparations to leave. Cumming called a public meeting. He said he was in Utah to represent the federal government. He said he was there to make sure the people of the territory obeyed the constitution and the laws of the United States. He said he would not use military force until every other way had failed. Above all, said Cumming, he would not interfere with the Mormon religion. He urged the Mormons not to leave the land they had worked so hard to build. Brigham Young agreed to stay.
Governor Cumming returned to the army camp. He told the commander that the Mormons had accepted him. He said military force would not be needed. A few days later, two representatives of President Buchanan arrived. They brought news that the president would not act against Mormons who accepted the rule of the united states government. Brigham young and the other Mormon leaders made a statement. They said they wished to live in peace under the constitution and the laws of the United States. The dispute was over. Brigham Young continued to lead the Mormon church. But the governor ruled the territorial government. The two jobs were separate and would remain that way.
BY CHRISTOPHER SMITH THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE Saturday, April 5, 1997
Brigham Young became the new leader of the Mormons. He told his people that he had seen their new home in a dream. He said it was a wide, beautiful valley in the west. He said he would recognize it when he saw it. The Mormons left Illinois in the spring of 1846. There were more than 15,000 people, and many wagons and farm animals. The trip west was hard. Many of the people died. After months of slow travel, they stopped to make their winter camp. Reportedly the findings of the expeditions of General John C. Fremont in 1844 and 1845 were instrumental in attracting the Mormons into this domain of Indians and fur trappers.
Explorers visited the camp. They told Brigham Young about a great salt lake in a wide valley on the western side of the Rocky Mountains. From the way they described it, Young believed it was the valley of his dream. He started to move his people toward the Great Salt Lake as soon as the winter snows melted. They arrived in the summer of 1847. Brigham Young looked out over the valley. "This," he said, "is the right place." The Mormons wasted no time. Two hours after arriving, they began to prepare the ground for planting. The lake water was too salty to use. So they built a system of canals to bring water down from the mountains. The first few years were difficult. Cold weather and insects destroyed their crops. Yet the Mormons continued to work hard to make their settlement a success. They refused to think of leaving.
After years of persecution in the Midwest they realized the advantages of self-government, but the land they had come to belonged to Mexico. In 1848 the United States won the Mexican War, and the Treaty of Guadalupe-Hidalgo was signed which ceded Utah to the United States.
At first, the Mormons were ruled only by the laws of their church and by their leader. Then gold was discovered in California. Many non-Mormons passed through the Salt Lake area on their way to the gold fields. Some of them stayed. It soon became clear that new laws were needed to govern the growing population.
The Mormons asked Congress to approve a territorial government for their land. In 1849 a constitutional convention proposed the State of Deseret, a Mormon word meaning "honey bee." The Mormons claimed a large area. It encompassed the entire Great Basin and east to the Continental Divide, including, besides the present state of Utah, most of present Nevada and Arizona and parts of southern California (with the port of San Diego), Wyoming, Colorado, New Mexico, Oregon, and Idaho. The US Senate passed a bill in 1850 providing for the organization of Utah Territory, though shrinking its borders. The US Congress to accept the name Deseret. Instead, Congress called it Utah, after the Ute tribe of native American indians that lived there. One reason for the refusal of Congress to grant statehood to Deseret was the lack of 60,000 eligible voters required for admission as a state. Moreover, Congress objected to the huge size of the proposed state.
As a compromise, Brigham Young was named governor of the new Utah territory. Most of the new territorial officials were Mormons, too. Only four were not Mormon.
Governing the territory was not easy. There were disputes during the administrations of several American presidents. As a result of one dispute, the four non-Mormon officials returned to Washington. The Mormons then formed their own territorial government with a legislature and courts. Other federal officials were sent to Utah. Some of them were not prepared for the job. Usually, they did not stay long.
Some of the officials made many charges against Brigham Young and other Mormon leaders. They said Mormons refused to recognize the power of the federal government. They said Mormons put the words of Young above the laws of congress. They said the church had a secret organization to take the lives and property of those who questioned the power of the church. There were charges that Mormons had burned the papers of the supreme court of the territory. And there were charges that Mormons were responsible for indian attacks on some officials.
During the territorial period, from 1850 to 1895, Utah's governors were appointed by the president of the United States. With the exception of Brigham Young, all the governors were outsiders and non-Mormons. Often referred to as carpetbaggers, most had practiced law and pursued political office before arriving in Utah. A patronage appointment, the governorship of Utah was a difficult and geographically remote assignment, and some of those willing to accept posts in the western territories were of marginal ability and character.
President Franklin Pierce decided he should make someone else governor of Utah. The man he chose, however, did not want the job. Instead, he urged the president to let Brigham Young remain. President Pierce agreed.
Acting on rumors that the Mormons were rebelling against federal authority, President James Buchanan replaced Brigham Young as governor in 1857. Buchanan sent a 2,500-man military force to accompany the new governor Alfred Cumming to the territory, starting the Utah War.
The prospective Utah War in 1857 caused a population boom in Utah and Cedar Counties because many Salt Lake area residents moved south and sought refuge in Provo and nearby settlements. But the war had its biggest economic impact in Cedar County where the occupying army, under General Johnston, was settled. This was important because the U.S. Army purchased horses, food, and other supplies from the settlers, providing local residents with a monopoly on the major source of money in the entire Utah Territory.
Settlers in the town of Milton supplied feed for the horses of Mormon troops stationed in canyon passes watching for Johnston's Army. Lot Smith of Stoddard blocked Echo Canyon, burned US Army supply trains, and stampeded government horses and cattle. This forced the soldiers to stop for the winter before reaching the salt lake valley. The soldiers could do nothing until spring. The Federal troops under Cumming wintered at Camp Scott, Wyoming.
In Washington, efforts were made to settle the dispute. A man named Thomas Kane asked President Buchanan to let him go to Utah. Kane was an old friend of the President. He also was a friend of the Mormons. He had spent much time with them during their long trip to Utah ten years earlier. Kane feared what might happen to his Mormon friends if fighting started. He told President Buchanan that he did not want a job or money. He only wanted a chance to be useful. The president agreed to let him try to settle the dispute.
Thomas Kane arrived in Salt Lake City, the territorial capital, early in 1858. He found that the Mormons had decided not to fight. Instead, they were preparing to search for a new home. They talked of moving to Mexico or perhaps to an island in the South Pacific.
When the Federal troops finally marched through Salt Lake City on June 26, 1858, they found it abandoned by the Mormons. On orders of Brigham Young, Salt Lake City was almost abandoned when Cumming arrived. The army proceeded to a site 40 miles southwest of the capital where they built Camp Floyd. Cumming was determined to avoid violence, and the so-called Utah War was quickly settled. Kane talked with Brigham Young. Then he went to the army camp to talk with Governor Cumming. The governor agreed to go to Salt Lake City with Kane. The two men went alone, without any soldiers.
The Mormons welcomed Cumming, but continued their preparations to leave. Cumming called a public meeting. He said he was in Utah to represent the federal government. He said he was there to make sure the people of the territory obeyed the constitution and the laws of the United States. He said he would not use military force until every other way had failed. Above all, said Cumming, he would not interfere with the Mormon religion. He urged the Mormons not to leave the land they had worked so hard to build. Brigham Young agreed to stay.
Governor Cumming returned to the army camp. He told the commander that the Mormons had accepted him. He said military force would not be needed. A few days later, two representatives of President Buchanan arrived. They brought news that the president would not act against Mormons who accepted the rule of the united states government. Brigham young and the other Mormon leaders made a statement. They said they wished to live in peace under the constitution and the laws of the United States. The dispute was over. Brigham Young continued to lead the Mormon church. But the governor ruled the territorial government. The two jobs were separate and would remain that way.
BY CHRISTOPHER SMITH THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE Saturday, April 5, 1997
andrewgprv
Second Class Citizen
Unless your refering to this mormon war.....
The Mormons as a people were honest, sober, and industrious, but the object of the leaders was to make money and obtain power. Joe Smith and his brother Hyrum, with the church's funds purchased of the government large bodies of land around Far West, which they did not scruple to sell their followers at exorbitant prices. When the leaders set the example of speculating in the devotion of the people, it is scarcely to be wondered at if their sub ordinates went to greater extremes to fill their purses. And if they had but little respect for their obligations to each other, they had less for the laws of the State, or the rights of their Gentile neighbors. Some of their daring leaders boldly taught the doctrine that the Lord had given the earth and the fullness thereof as an inheritance to His people, and that they were His people, and had a right at pleasure to take what pleased their appetite or fancy.
At the time of the difficulties in Jackson County, Joe Smith organized a band of men, called the "Army of Zion", to protect his people against the assaults of their enemies. Amongst these were many who were too lazy to earn a living by the sweat of their brow. Desperadoes and vagabonds joined this band for the purpose of plundering. Squads of them strolled about the country, threatening the men, intimidating the women, and appropriating in the name of the prophet any property which pleased their taste.
As the Mormons largely outnumbered the Gentiles, they elected to all offices of honor and trust persons of their own faith. Smith was careful that the persons selected should be subservient to the will of himself and his apostles. The Gentiles complained that it was impossible for them to obtain a fair hearing before the Mormon magistrates and juries; that the trials were farces; that the leaders taught, and the members acted on, the principle that Gentiles had no rights which a Mormon was bound to respect; and that not the merits of the cause, but the creeds of the con contestants, determined which way the scales of justice should turn.
Whether these complaints were true or false, they were believed by many, and naturally excited deep indignation a against the Mormons. Tales of debauchery, theft and murder were told of them, and their expulsion from the country de demanded. These bitter feelings engendered brawls and riots. Crowds of excited fanatics pelted obnoxious Gentiles on the streets of Far West with clubs and stones. In retaliation, armed Gentiles rode into public meetings where their lawless conduct was being denounced, seized the speakers, and applied the lash until blood trickled. down their backs. Both sides ceased to resort to legal methods for the enforcement of their rights. Amidst so much excitement and in subordination the civil authorities were powerless to enforce the laws and punish offences.
Finally, in 1838, the discord became so great and outrages so frequent, that the State authorities felt it their duty to interfere. Governor Boggs issued a proclamation calling out the militia to aid in restoring order and enforcing the laws. The militia were placed under the command of Generals John B. Clark, David R. Atchison, and Alexander W. Donophan. General Doniphan's brigade advanced at once toward Far West. The main body of the Army of Zion, under the command of George W. Hinkle, whom Smith had designated as commander-in-chief of the Mormon forces, was held in reserve at Far West to be used as emergencies might require. Smaller bodies were thrown forward to guard the approaches from the south and east.
The First fight occurred on a branch of Crooked River, near Randolph McDonald's, in the south-western part of the County, between a company of Ray County militia, numbering about sixty-five men, under the command of Captain Bogard, and a body of Mormons numbering about one hundred and fifty, commanded by Chas. W. Patton, to whom the Mormons had given the name of 'Thunderbolt'. The militia had taken one Mormon a prisoner, and were encamped in a bend of the creek, when the Mormons made a night attack and succeeded, after an obstinate resistance, in driving the militia a cross the creek, which was quite deep at that point. The militia lost two or three in killed, and five or six wounded. The Mormon prisoner was killed by the shots of his friends. The Mormon loss is not known, but is supposed to have been greater than that of the militia. Bogard's company was the advance guard of Doniphan's command, which reached the battlefield a couple of days afterwards.
On the next day an engagement was fought at Haun's Mill on Shoal Creek, south of Breckenridge. At that point a Mormon outpost, entrenched in the mill, and a blacksmith's shop, was attacked by the Livingston County militia, under Capt. Comstock. After a brief struggle the Mormons threw down their arms in token of surrender, but one of the militia-men having been severely wounded, his comrades were so enraged that their officers were unable to check them until eighteen of the Mormons were killed and a number wounded. Haun, the proprietor of the mill, was killed, and with the rest of the dead was buried in a well that stood near by.
The result of these encounters destroyed the confidence of the Mormons and caused Joe Smith to propose terms of capitulation to General Doniphan, who arrived the next day. After some negotiation, it was agreed that the Mormons should surrender their arms, deliver up their leaders for trial, and withdraw from the State. Accordingly Joseph Smith, Hyrum Smith, Sidney Rigdon, Lyman Wright, Amasa Lyman, W.W. Baldwin, and General Hinkle were taken before Judge King, at Richmond, for examination. Sidney Rigdon was released, but the rest were committed to jail to answer an i.ndictment for treason against the State. After an indictment was preferred, they obtained a change of venue to Boone County. While on their way to Columbia under a military guard, they bribed their guards and escaped.
Crosby Johnson, An Illustrated Historical Atlas of Caldwell County, Missouri. 1876. Edwards Brothers
The Mormons as a people were honest, sober, and industrious, but the object of the leaders was to make money and obtain power. Joe Smith and his brother Hyrum, with the church's funds purchased of the government large bodies of land around Far West, which they did not scruple to sell their followers at exorbitant prices. When the leaders set the example of speculating in the devotion of the people, it is scarcely to be wondered at if their sub ordinates went to greater extremes to fill their purses. And if they had but little respect for their obligations to each other, they had less for the laws of the State, or the rights of their Gentile neighbors. Some of their daring leaders boldly taught the doctrine that the Lord had given the earth and the fullness thereof as an inheritance to His people, and that they were His people, and had a right at pleasure to take what pleased their appetite or fancy.
At the time of the difficulties in Jackson County, Joe Smith organized a band of men, called the "Army of Zion", to protect his people against the assaults of their enemies. Amongst these were many who were too lazy to earn a living by the sweat of their brow. Desperadoes and vagabonds joined this band for the purpose of plundering. Squads of them strolled about the country, threatening the men, intimidating the women, and appropriating in the name of the prophet any property which pleased their taste.
As the Mormons largely outnumbered the Gentiles, they elected to all offices of honor and trust persons of their own faith. Smith was careful that the persons selected should be subservient to the will of himself and his apostles. The Gentiles complained that it was impossible for them to obtain a fair hearing before the Mormon magistrates and juries; that the trials were farces; that the leaders taught, and the members acted on, the principle that Gentiles had no rights which a Mormon was bound to respect; and that not the merits of the cause, but the creeds of the con contestants, determined which way the scales of justice should turn.
Whether these complaints were true or false, they were believed by many, and naturally excited deep indignation a against the Mormons. Tales of debauchery, theft and murder were told of them, and their expulsion from the country de demanded. These bitter feelings engendered brawls and riots. Crowds of excited fanatics pelted obnoxious Gentiles on the streets of Far West with clubs and stones. In retaliation, armed Gentiles rode into public meetings where their lawless conduct was being denounced, seized the speakers, and applied the lash until blood trickled. down their backs. Both sides ceased to resort to legal methods for the enforcement of their rights. Amidst so much excitement and in subordination the civil authorities were powerless to enforce the laws and punish offences.
Finally, in 1838, the discord became so great and outrages so frequent, that the State authorities felt it their duty to interfere. Governor Boggs issued a proclamation calling out the militia to aid in restoring order and enforcing the laws. The militia were placed under the command of Generals John B. Clark, David R. Atchison, and Alexander W. Donophan. General Doniphan's brigade advanced at once toward Far West. The main body of the Army of Zion, under the command of George W. Hinkle, whom Smith had designated as commander-in-chief of the Mormon forces, was held in reserve at Far West to be used as emergencies might require. Smaller bodies were thrown forward to guard the approaches from the south and east.
The First fight occurred on a branch of Crooked River, near Randolph McDonald's, in the south-western part of the County, between a company of Ray County militia, numbering about sixty-five men, under the command of Captain Bogard, and a body of Mormons numbering about one hundred and fifty, commanded by Chas. W. Patton, to whom the Mormons had given the name of 'Thunderbolt'. The militia had taken one Mormon a prisoner, and were encamped in a bend of the creek, when the Mormons made a night attack and succeeded, after an obstinate resistance, in driving the militia a cross the creek, which was quite deep at that point. The militia lost two or three in killed, and five or six wounded. The Mormon prisoner was killed by the shots of his friends. The Mormon loss is not known, but is supposed to have been greater than that of the militia. Bogard's company was the advance guard of Doniphan's command, which reached the battlefield a couple of days afterwards.
On the next day an engagement was fought at Haun's Mill on Shoal Creek, south of Breckenridge. At that point a Mormon outpost, entrenched in the mill, and a blacksmith's shop, was attacked by the Livingston County militia, under Capt. Comstock. After a brief struggle the Mormons threw down their arms in token of surrender, but one of the militia-men having been severely wounded, his comrades were so enraged that their officers were unable to check them until eighteen of the Mormons were killed and a number wounded. Haun, the proprietor of the mill, was killed, and with the rest of the dead was buried in a well that stood near by.
The result of these encounters destroyed the confidence of the Mormons and caused Joe Smith to propose terms of capitulation to General Doniphan, who arrived the next day. After some negotiation, it was agreed that the Mormons should surrender their arms, deliver up their leaders for trial, and withdraw from the State. Accordingly Joseph Smith, Hyrum Smith, Sidney Rigdon, Lyman Wright, Amasa Lyman, W.W. Baldwin, and General Hinkle were taken before Judge King, at Richmond, for examination. Sidney Rigdon was released, but the rest were committed to jail to answer an i.ndictment for treason against the State. After an indictment was preferred, they obtained a change of venue to Boone County. While on their way to Columbia under a military guard, they bribed their guards and escaped.
Crosby Johnson, An Illustrated Historical Atlas of Caldwell County, Missouri. 1876. Edwards Brothers
andrewgprv
Second Class Citizen
andrewgprv
Second Class Citizen
If it were up to Brigham Young, the early mormon culture was very fascinating. They did not see themselves as just another sect of christianity living in the US of A. They believed the second coming was at hand at that they were the only true church, the restored gospel.... Brigham Young orignally had in mind his own nation. He even at one time tried to create a Deseret language. The mormons lived in a theocracy for several years.
andrewgprv
Second Class Citizen
Yes he was a genius so much of what is the modern mormon church and Salt Lake City and Utah owes soooo much to that man. In fact I and many others would say that mormonism owes alot more to Brigham Young then Joseph Smith. He layed the foundations for a unique mormon culture one that still prevales in Utah and many parts of Idaho, Nevada, California, Arizona and Colorado.
One of the many evidences of his founding genius was the way he planned the streets of Salt Lake City, a very logicall grid pattern not using street names but numbers. In Salt Lake if someone gives you an adress 99% of the time it will be easy to find it with no directions. I.E. In the Salt Lake Valley I lived at 9632 S and 2427 E. Corodantes on the grid! How much easier can it be!
He also did not tolerate disent and ruled with an iron fist that is for sure, he shares much in common with many of the great leaders of history.
Also he sure was succesfull in spreading his seed. 57 Children.....
One of the many evidences of his founding genius was the way he planned the streets of Salt Lake City, a very logicall grid pattern not using street names but numbers. In Salt Lake if someone gives you an adress 99% of the time it will be easy to find it with no directions. I.E. In the Salt Lake Valley I lived at 9632 S and 2427 E. Corodantes on the grid! How much easier can it be!
He also did not tolerate disent and ruled with an iron fist that is for sure, he shares much in common with many of the great leaders of history.
Also he sure was succesfull in spreading his seed. 57 Children.....
onejayhawk
Afflicted with reason
You forgot the parts about communism, the seperate coinage and the miracle of the seagulls, but on the whole a most excellent account.
Brigham Young was a certifiable genius in at least three areas. One of them was leadership. How he managed to get that flock of people to sell off everything they owned and head for who knew where, is an historical marvel. Another was engineering. Some of the stories of his Temple design at fascinating. He put electrical conduits and elevator shafts into a building when electricity was a parlor trick and elevators were not even a concept.
He also had a genius for excess that rivals Henry VIII. 50+ wives for example. Many were older widows who needed protection, or so they say. Many were not. He brough in Irish nuns to teach the children, of which there was a small army. The Church authorities have spent 150 years trying to erase just about everything he ever said on doctrine. In fact the Book of Mormon itself seems to be shrinking as portions are edited out.
In other words, like most things, its some of the first and some of the second, and the proportions are often determined by by bias of the speaker. He was in any event not a man to cross. Bloodthirsty.
J
Brigham Young was a certifiable genius in at least three areas. One of them was leadership. How he managed to get that flock of people to sell off everything they owned and head for who knew where, is an historical marvel. Another was engineering. Some of the stories of his Temple design at fascinating. He put electrical conduits and elevator shafts into a building when electricity was a parlor trick and elevators were not even a concept.
He also had a genius for excess that rivals Henry VIII. 50+ wives for example. Many were older widows who needed protection, or so they say. Many were not. He brough in Irish nuns to teach the children, of which there was a small army. The Church authorities have spent 150 years trying to erase just about everything he ever said on doctrine. In fact the Book of Mormon itself seems to be shrinking as portions are edited out.
In other words, like most things, its some of the first and some of the second, and the proportions are often determined by by bias of the speaker. He was in any event not a man to cross. Bloodthirsty.
J
onejayhawk
Afflicted with reason
Whether it is attributable to his leadership, or to the isolation, the Utah version of LDS is much more viable than the group that stayed behind with Joseph Smith's first wife Emma, and his children, now called the RLDS (Revised church of Latter Day Saints). As I understand it, Joseph Smith's line has ended, in that the last male carrying his name will die childless and what little is left may die with him. on that basis I would have to say you are correct. BY was more important than the founder.
Another organizational detail is the ward/stake system he set up. A ward is like a Catholic parrish. A stake is a collection of wards. In the race to build the railroad across the west, some of the fastest work was done by Mormans. The work was assigned ward by ward, and supervised by the stake. It seems to have gotten very competitive. Then there is the disaster service, second oldest after the Mennonites. The Bishop's storehouse and church welfare for widows and orphans, long before the Depression.
One thing that you did not mention that is relevant is that Brigham Young left the church/state in deep debt. After his death the practice of tithing was reinstituted to pay it off. It is a lesson the church has never forgotten, and may explain a fair amount about Orin Hatch, to those who watch politics. Even now my exLDS wife is prone to bringing home whole cases of canned goods or putting up 20 jars of pear butter (yum). The two of us could eat a month without leaving the house, and make a decent diet.
In any event there are indications that both Lincoln and Davis made overtures to BY to get aid, or at least deny it to the other side. The CSA expected Young to be sympathetic, based in part on their treatment in NY and Illinois. It wasnt the case. Most of what little came east went north.
J
Quasar1011
King of Sylvania
Um, how many trees did he plant?
Mr. Dictator
A Chain-Smoking Fox
has anyone ever heard of this before, cant find a link but ive read it in a encyclopedia
apparently the US sent troops to attack the Mormons except it was more complex than that.
apparently the US sent troops to attack the Mormons except it was more complex than that.
Mr. Dictator
A Chain-Smoking Fox
thats it, and the gov't pounced!
Jesus
Jesus
Mr. Dictator
A Chain-Smoking Fox
i think it was the second one.
Mr. Dictator
A Chain-Smoking Fox
so that was all going to be Mormon?
Mr. Dictator
A Chain-Smoking Fox
thats what happens when you let a cult live 
Mescalhead
Vincebus Eruptum
The cause of that was the fact that a few missionaries went by 1600 Pennsylvania avenue.
Eurocentric.org
Chieftain
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2003
- Messages
- 24
Aren't there something like 12 million+ mormons now?
onejayhawk
Afflicted with reason
This is a fact. I have heard it said that Mormonism has an almost Islamic feel to it, sort of an American version. The Dainites for example and the doctrine, still followed by some, of blood atonement. I could see a 100 Years War between the Roman Church and the Mormon church, with an undecided outcome.
Yet it is legitimately a splinter of Christianity, although most sects (including mine) dont acknowledge it. Compared to say the Vedic religions, Shinto or Tao, its indentical.
J
andrewgprv
Second Class Citizen
So One Jay Hawk you have an exmormon wife eh? I bet she makes a mean Jello Salad 
Anyhoo I completly agree mormonism does have an Islamic feel to it. I have thought the exact same thing in fact, when I read the story of Muhamed and the early days of Islam there were many parallels with the early days of mormonism that I spotted.
After my expreice in mormonism I would say mormons ride the line of christianity. They definatly are not like most christians they put alot less emphasis on Christ and more so on the Prophets. Their doctrine is also very different then the rest of christianity. But they do see Christ as their savior who dies for their sins so you can't really not call them christian....
Most all the world accepts the mormon's dark past as fact it seems only the mormons deny that.
Anyhoo I completly agree mormonism does have an Islamic feel to it. I have thought the exact same thing in fact, when I read the story of Muhamed and the early days of Islam there were many parallels with the early days of mormonism that I spotted.
After my expreice in mormonism I would say mormons ride the line of christianity. They definatly are not like most christians they put alot less emphasis on Christ and more so on the Prophets. Their doctrine is also very different then the rest of christianity. But they do see Christ as their savior who dies for their sins so you can't really not call them christian....
Most all the world accepts the mormon's dark past as fact it seems only the mormons deny that.
