Most overpowered unit?

[Quentin]

Cossacks. Bonus against mounted is just evil. Plus having 18 str also means they can take out most riflemen(from personal experience), assuming the riflemen can even move fast enough to reach them.

I'm curious why no one else seems to think they're overpowered.

 

[doug2134]

Oh yea, cossacks were basically worthless in reality. They couldnt stand in a battle line again superior industrailized armies.

 

[Instant_Cereal]

the Chinese empire was contemporary with the Roman empire, was larger and more powerful, and practically invented western civilization (gunpowder, glass, paper, paper money etc...)

just a thought...!

Ummm... huh? Where are you getting this from?

 

[LordCopenhagen]

Any UU is overpowered if used correctly. Immortals at 4 strength, only needing horses, and a +50% against archers? They can roll over cities early in the games, same with Praets later down the road with iron, or how about Red Coats with a +50% against gunpowder units (the choice defender of the era)? Use their strengths, and they are overpowered, that's why they're unique.

 

[calyth]

Ummm... huh? Where are you getting this from?

I'm not sure at all on glass or paper money, but I'm plenty sure that the Chinese did invent gunpower, and paper. Arguably printing press has some of its origins from China (both block and movable type).

 

[Merzbow]

I'm not sure at all on glass or paper money, but I'm plenty sure that the Chinese did invent gunpower, and paper. Arguably printing press has some of its origins from China (both block and movable type).

The Chinese may have invented all that but they didn't do jack with it.

 

[Flak]

The Chinese may have invented all that but they didn't do jack with it.

If that was true, then I doubt they would have been included as a civ in every game in the series.

ON TOPIC: I'm playing my first game using Preatorians. Not bad, not bad. I have to say I was really disappointed with the Greek Phalanx. I had swordman at the same time and I just couldn't see any advantage to this UU. They weren't exceptional defenders or attackers, and had no bonuses of any use. Maybe if I got them by themself and nobody else had any melee units higher than warrior. Otherwise, their only use is too look good (I like the Greek Phalanx graphics).

 

[Gr3yL3gion]

Off-topic Rome is a dead civilization while the Chinese still exist and fully intact.

On-topic: On huge tropical map, the keshik rock big time.

 

[BLOODYBATTLEBRA]

glass came from the phoenicians, and paper comes from the egyptians (papyrus being the first 'paper', and the reason we call the stuff paper).

Gunpowder was definitely invented, or ratehr discovered, by the Chinese, by accident, whilst looking for an elixir of immortality (ironic eh?) but Sir Francis Bacon was the first westerner to get it (and he did so by actually experimenting and searching for it).


Paper money was originally chinese, but I'm not sure how far ahead they were of Europe. I know the first major banking centres were European (swiss, funnily enough. Geneva, and this spread to S.France, namely Lyon. Studying the history of Lyon is what leads me to the banking conclusion.) but the Chinese came up with paper money, not as we understand notes/bills today, but basically as a written guarentee that enabled the rightful bearer to colelct said cash at a bank. You couldn't use this paoper money as currency, they way we use it today. It was more like a cheque, but yeah they were first.

Back ontopic, how do you guys rate Conquistadors? Because I am going to be facing them soon I think. Are spearmen enough of a counter? What about halberdiers?

 

[Oggums]

The Praetorian will probably hold the title... until Beserk.4 comes out

Extra-strength Axeman with amphibious bonus. I'm so ready.

I agree. Bring on the berzerkers!

 

[zafyro]

conquistadores have a +50% against melee so spears are not enough, pikemen could stand them though if they are well fortified.

I cannot believe we forgot conquistadores in "most powerfull unit" 10 atack inmune to first strikes 50% against melee and able to use defensive bonuses...

by the way on this site its listed as having 2 first strikes [then this is really umbalancing] but i do not remember that, could someone check?

 

[The Last Conformist]

Conquistadores look fearsome on paper, but in practice I've not found them that troublesome. To be really dangerous, they'd need to turn up in large numbers before gunpowder, which hasn't happened to me yet.

 

[zafyro]

i played my first civ 4 games with spain for obvious reasons, and conquistadores were just fine, i did not use them a lot because it was a terra map and i was conquering the new world. Easy prey.

But playing with spain researching asap guilds and building a ton of conquistadores can be quite a challenge to resist... they have no coounter as only units with extra against them are melee units [pikemen str 6 100% =12 against conquistador str 10 +50% = 15 plus the first strikes if thats true plus they cannot be counteratacked as knights as they do make use of defensive terrain]

it seems so nice that i´m starting a game to test it

 

[BlackMage]

+1 Praetorian. 8STR that early owns.

 

[Zurai]

and paper comes from the egyptians (papyrus being the first 'paper', and the reason we call the stuff paper).

Incorrect. Papyrus is not paper and does not even resemble paper except in usage. Paper was first made circa 150 BC in China. The West didn't get paper until well into the 11th century AD.

The major difference between papyrus and paper (other than how it is made, which is completely different) is that papyrus is HEAVY and expensive. You would not be able to lift or afford a book made out of papyrus.

 

[rabottens]

Early game: Catipult

Mid game: Cossack

Late game: Panzer

 

[Efexeye]

Oops- stupid post. Deleted.

 

[jar2574]

on topic: prats rock! so do riflemen because of their bonus against gunpowder.

off topic: from

http://www.computersmiths.com/chineseinvention/paper.htm

The word "paper" is derived from the word "papyrus," which was a plant found in Egypt along the lower Nile River. About 5,000 years ago, Egyptians created "sheets" of papyrus by harvesting, peeling and slicing the plant into strips. The strips were then layered, pounded together and smoothed to make a flat, uniform sheet.

No major changes in writing materials were to come for about 3,000 years. According to Chinese historical accounts, paper was first invented by Ts'ai Lun (about 104 CE), who lived in the Eastern Han Dynasty. He took the inner bark of a mulberry tree and bamboo fibers, mixed them with water, and pounded them with a wooden tool. He then poured this mixture onto a flat piece of coarsely woven cloth and let the water drain through, leaving only the fibers on the cloth. Once dry, Ts'ai Lun discovered that he had created a quality writing surface that was relatively easy to make and lightweight. Some other materials he used for various papers included tree bark, remnants of hemp, linen rags, and fishnets.He presented the invention to Emperor He Di in 105 CE, and knowledge of papermaking was passed along to Korea, Samarkand, Baghdad, and Damascus.


see also http://www.ipst.gatech.edu/amp/collection/museum_invention_paper.htm

 

[Carewolf]

For a later game Redcoats. Like the Praetorians there is no counter. The usual counter against riflemen the grenadier _only_ has a bonus against riflemen and not one against Redcoats, and Redcoats eats Cossacks for lunch; they don't stand a chance.

 

[Instant_Cereal]

Okay, I'll let y'all squabble over the other schtuff. However, consider gunpowder.

Gunpowder: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunpowder. I've actually always known about gunpowder's history, but thought it'd be better to provide a link since people have a tendacy to easily dismiss people on here. In short, they're not sure who discovered gunpowder first. If I had to bet my money though, I'd bet on the arabs.

Oh, and I didn't know about the alchemist Bacon guy (though I see they mention him in the article, too). Thanks anyway.