Spaceship: Manhattan Project.
Diplomatic: Manhattan Project.
Conquest: Sistine Chapel.
Domination: Sistine Chapel.
20k: Manhattan Project.
100k: Manhattan Project.
Most useless wonder
- Thread starter Spoonwood
- Start date
Spaceship: Manhattan Project.
Diplomatic: Manhattan Project.
Conquest: Sistine Chapel.
Domination: Sistine Chapel.
20k: Manhattan Project.
100k: Manhattan Project.
eldar
ChiefTank
Manhattan for SS victories is actually mildly useful - it allows you to build ICBMs all over the place as SS part pre-builds.
For conqeust/dom/space/diplo (i.e. any game where I don't care about non-Sci culture and get happiness from luxes & the slider): Oracle, Sistine
For 20k/100k: Manhattan sure but really it comes so late... if we're talking early-mid-game, Great Wall is a surefire loser.
(non-20k) OCC: Sun Tzu, Pyramids, Great Wall, Internet...
For conqeust/dom/space/diplo (i.e. any game where I don't care about non-Sci culture and get happiness from luxes & the slider): Oracle, Sistine
For 20k/100k: Manhattan sure but really it comes so late... if we're talking early-mid-game, Great Wall is a surefire loser.
(non-20k) OCC: Sun Tzu, Pyramids, Great Wall, Internet...
Higher Game
National Socialist
Sistine is an amazing wonder if you have the religious trait. Otherwise, it's average, but not horrible.
eldar
ChiefTank
Sistine is utterly pointless if you don't build Cathedrals. Everyone who is saying Oracle/Sistine are the most useless, are players who will not routinely build Temples, let alone Cathedrals.
splunge the 2nd
King
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2007
- Messages
- 741
Longevity.
What's the problem with Internet? Too late to impact research? Most folks don't research?
What's the problem with Internet? Too late to impact research? Most folks don't research?
Lord Emsworth
Emperor
The Sistine Chapel is actually a great wonder for a 5CC or something like that. It is not such a big deal to build cathedrals in only a few, really good cities. And when your only few cities are metros, the six content faces are more than welcome.
Otherwise it is far too much effort to have an empirewide coverage of cathedrals to be able to relieve the lux slider.
Otherwise it is far too much effort to have an empirewide coverage of cathedrals to be able to relieve the lux slider.
Building the Manhattan project should give the building player 1 free Tactical Nuke, while granting ability to build nuclear weapons to every Civ as it is designed now.
I guess the current wonder is done in such a way that if the AIs are off doing something else, the human players can effectively play quite late into the game without anyone having nukes, giving the players the option to go nuke free.
But that depends on the sometimes unpredictable AI behaviors. Though I'm certain the Manhattan Project is not high on their priority, they do still build it.
I guess the current wonder is done in such a way that if the AIs are off doing something else, the human players can effectively play quite late into the game without anyone having nukes, giving the players the option to go nuke free.
But that depends on the sometimes unpredictable AI behaviors. Though I'm certain the Manhattan Project is not high on their priority, they do still build it.
I actually like this.
Alternatively, perhaps building the Manhattan Project could make nuclear weapons 25 percent cheaper to build (would this be a detriment to players who use nukes as pre-builds, though?
).The Great Wall can actually make for good use in a space or diplomatic OCC since it will become a tourist attraction and it doesn't produce all too much culture. Same for the Pyramids, except less so, since it produces more culture and costs more.
As Emsworth indicated, Sistine can make a great wonder if you'll have your cities end up working (around) a full 20 tiles. I like the Internet as a pre-build for expensive spaceship parts myself and factories or manufacturing plants for the cheaper ones. I don't really care for the Internet in most space games, since I can usually buy or build research labs everywhere faster. It's a nice GA trigger for anyone though.
As Emsworth indicated, Sistine can make a great wonder if you'll have your cities end up working (around) a full 20 tiles. I like the Internet as a pre-build for expensive spaceship parts myself and factories or manufacturing plants for the cheaper ones. I don't really care for the Internet in most space games, since I can usually buy or build research labs everywhere faster. It's a nice GA trigger for anyone though.
Universal Sufferage is just a bad idea. And the wonder is useless, too.
Taras Bulba
gone
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2007
- Messages
- 1,442
personally, I'd go with Manhattan project as the most useless, as I hardly ever waste time building nukes.... my least favorite is probably universal suffrage, as for its cost, its effect is not worth it.... especially seeing as when it comes, things start costing more, but you haven't gotten your improvements yet to increase shield output quite in time
just as a reminder, what does Cure for Cancer do? I can't really remember, my games don't typically go that far
just as a reminder, what does Cure for Cancer do? I can't really remember, my games don't typically go that far
Cure for Cancer adds +1 happy citizen to every city, if I remember correctly.
I think communism got uber buffed in C3C with the secret police HQ and the builders got left in the dust with no gov. specific wonders of their own. Universal Sufferage should have been reworked as a Democracy exclusive wonder with its effects enhanced.
ie: +1 content in democracy, reduces war weariness only in democracy, adds commerce to the city.
And the cost reduced.
jeffred1111
Chieftain
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2009
- Messages
- 53
Manhattan Project is certainly not useless in space games. As was pointed out, nukes make fabulous pre-buids, but in some tighter games, the nukes might come in handy when it comes to ressource denial or destroying a spaceship. Universal Sufferage is way more crappy in such a game (or i pretty much any game where you don't pick democrazy as your gov.
For example, I came one part short in my DG game of having to use two boatfull of marines + the tac nukes (a dozen or so) I had at the Ottomans' border (sans SDI, ho the joy that would've been). The bastards stole every tech the American and I researched, stockpiling cash all the way (they triggered their GA with the Internet!).
My vote goes to the UN who is also pretty darn stupid if you go for any victory condition other than diplomacy: you MUST build it a lot of the time to deny it but it doesn't have any effect. Giving a boost to happyness, commerce or even faciliting tribes relations would make this wonder less frustrating. Forcing other tribes into an embargo and negating any of their MPP or alliances wth a tribe that declares war on you might have been fun, if not hella exploitive.
For example, I came one part short in my DG game of having to use two boatfull of marines + the tac nukes (a dozen or so) I had at the Ottomans' border (sans SDI, ho the joy that would've been). The bastards stole every tech the American and I researched, stockpiling cash all the way (they triggered their GA with the Internet!).
My vote goes to the UN who is also pretty darn stupid if you go for any victory condition other than diplomacy: you MUST build it a lot of the time to deny it but it doesn't have any effect. Giving a boost to happyness, commerce or even faciliting tribes relations would make this wonder less frustrating. Forcing other tribes into an embargo and negating any of their MPP or alliances wth a tribe that declares war on you might have been fun, if not hella exploitive.
Schalke 04
Knappe
Sorry for an off topic post here. But I don't know if it's really the case.
Communism can be truly powerful, but needs a lot of planning from the beginning and an empire wide building of courthouses etc. Moreover you have to deal with one more anarchy phase and have to research a dead end technology where you can go to RP or Darwin.
I don't see a lot of good players going for commie maybe for these reasons.
I trade for communism, as the AI will hit all the gov techs in the Industrial era while I try to monopolize the ToW > Electricity path if I can.
I may have msspoke when I said communism got overbuffed only BECAUSE of the police HQ, but granted being the only gov. to give you a 2nd F. Palace is very nice. What makes communism really powerful is the corruption is communal and thus, those far off alien capitals become very productive and getting courthouses up to furter reduce corruption will not be a problem.
I'm considering doing further work in my Epic mod that gives Republic/Democracy/Fascism their individual small wonders.
Democracy will probably be a beefeed up Universal Sufferage that's demoted into a small wonder.
I may have msspoke when I said communism got overbuffed only BECAUSE of the police HQ, but granted being the only gov. to give you a 2nd F. Palace is very nice. What makes communism really powerful is the corruption is communal and thus, those far off alien capitals become very productive and getting courthouses up to furter reduce corruption will not be a problem.
I'm considering doing further work in my Epic mod that gives Republic/Democracy/Fascism their individual small wonders.
Democracy will probably be a beefeed up Universal Sufferage that's demoted into a small wonder.
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
Communism has it's place; in one of my first SGs, I was privileged to play with Zerksees (whom I would say is an excellent player), and we ruled the world with Communism, starting from Madagascar.
Here is a link, if it is of interest to you.
Calis
on time
I am also thinking about it in my running 100K Deity match. I was in Monarchy ever since to conquer my opponents. Now I want to whip culture. As I am already in the Industrial Age, I don't want to go back to Feudalism, so Communism would be my choice.
