MrB2-rewriting history....again

[Mr. Blonde]

played my turns, here comes the log

900: Cuzo Remple->Missionary
920: Caravel wins against Barb galley; Oll: Temple->court
940: Contact Napoleon, we run short on money, decide to trade away Polytheism: deals: Alexander: we get hunting (on time) + 20 gold
Peter: Meditation (for philo->liberalism) + 20 gold

Cuzo: Miss->Maceman (we need him fro barb city)
Research: Guilds->Paper

960: meet Togukawa, nothing to trade
980: Cuzo Mace->Grocer; Machu: Market->Grocer Cor: lighthouse->Temple

1000...
1010...

1020: Napoleon wants worldmap for nothing...nay; we get the worldjourney
Oll: Court->Harbour
We draw Artist in Cuzo with 3 scientists at work..., keep him for now
We meet Roosevelt: Poly gives 40 Gold for us

Research: Paper->Education
1040...
1050: take Barb city, lose 1 unit

Continent
Stats
No.1 in people, production, food No.1 in GPD, no.4 in Area no.1 in Points (930 vs. 750 for Roosevelt and Alexander) no.2 in trade
Save

Strategy: I didn´t build settlers yet, our cities are still growing, and we have a little deficit at 80% research. The 2nd founded city has a priest and 40% great prophet chance, will increase until GPP bar is full
Research: Education->Philo->Lib->Printing Press. Reset civics after Liberalism (to discuss if PP is free tech or something more expansive) , I didn´t change them yet as there is only 1 sensible change now.
Build one of the 2 missing settlers and concentrate the free workers to the new city. Our cities can still grow (furs should be hooked next round)
All in all we should win with space rather unchallenged if we keep focus, we could pillage Alex or Roosevelt (or both) as they are closest in tech.

Up: Belisar, Tue for batt, Maybe Fr or latest Sun for me (I think I visit the parents on the weekend, no possibility to play there).

Edit: Divine right with Islam is still free, the Spiral minaret is a wonder that brings us income. If we agressively convert the Russian (still without religion) and the Greece it would be worth it. However, if we don´t get a great prophet in our second city, should we leave converting for now and concentrate on our infrastructure? We are for the moment safe from invasion as we can only be reached with caravels but the moment the AIs have optics as well we should have some frigates and 2 garrisoned defensive units per city at least and 10-15 fast interception units stationed in 2-3 stacks. The converting vs. military safety issue should be discussed, imo.

 

[Mr. Blonde]

My opinion: if we don´t get the great prophet quickly I say we go the free religion path and ignore the spiral minaret and converting other players. Then send the caravels to discover the last AIs, build 1 galley to milk the hoods on the south continent.
To discuss: liberalism for divine right (5th religion, Versailles!, Spiral minaret) or PP (+coins).

 

[batteryacid]

It´s not that bad with the artist- we need one for our Cultural bomb, and eventually we will burn one for a golden age (should be discussed when we want it)

Sorry for discussing that much for coastal cities - I didn´t know that the colossus is useless with astronomy, I though he would give us cash all play long

Next techs are clear- we want liberalism and we will want democracy , we will want to grab the free tech

Great with magellan +1 for naval units is what we want for our expansion phase and for our warmongerin - somewhen we will warmonger I hope!

Whats with wonders? Hagia Sophia : increases worker speed + GL points, expires with Steam power
Is the hangig garden still free? He would be handy, because he doesn´t expire according to the Civ4 section here

but WE WILL WANT THE STATUE OF LIBERTY COMES WITH DEMOCRACY AND SHOULD BE BUILT ASAP- one free specialist per city! 1500 pp, halves with copper

the spiral minaret is not that bad, but as we will have democracy soon we should sheduel the statue of liberty in our most productive city that leaves Cuzo for the spiral minaret - but that would be the city for building our next settler (unless we put olla´or coribua´ Macchu´on the settler , but they should be able to grow)

my vote :

Spiral minaret in Cuzo (should be finished soon ) and when the first of the other cities hits the happyness ceiling we should begin the settler there. Tiawanku should be saved for the statue of liberty

 

[Mr. Blonde]

The Hanging Gardens are still free. The Spiral Minaret is useless if we go for free religion! I don´t think we need it if we have representation and free religion, PP, and banking. We can play wiht rather small military for a while considering the enemy caravels can not transport military units and galleys can´t cross the sea. You need frigates for a military invasion over sea!

5th religion and free religion with only on-continent missionaries (we need monasteries then)

 

[batteryacid]

BTW- we should disuss a bit about national wonder placing in the cites ,
wall street I guess should be placed in tiawanku;
and oxford university should be placed in Cuzco;

these two cities will then have reached the National wonder limit of 2 since they have built heroic and national epic. we want to built iron works in Ghuzz because of the iron in the city radius (if caught it right on the screen) ; otherwise we have to build it in Cuzco and place oxford elsewhere,which I wouldn´t like

That leaves hermitage and globe theatre should eb in the same city for artist milking) for one of our other cities - Maccu´ or Olla`I would say

 

[Belisar]

BTW- we should disuss a bit about national wonder placing in the cites ,
wall street I guess should be placed in tiawanku;
and oxford university should be placed in Cuzco;

these two cities will then have reached the National wonder limit of 2 since they have built heroic and national epic. we want to built iron works in Ghuzz because of the iron in the city radius (if caught it right on the screen) ; otherwise we have to build it in Cuzco and place oxford elsewhere,which I wouldn´t like

That leaves hermitage and globe theatre should eb in the same city for artist milking) for one of our other cities - Maccu´ or Olla`I would say

Agreed with WallStreet in Tiwanaku, Oxford in Cuzco, but
HeroicEpic should have been built in a high-productive city, together with WestPoint

 

[Mr. Blonde]

Agreed with WallStreet in Tiwanaku, Oxford in Cuzco, but
HeroicEpic should have been built in a high-productive city, together with WestPoint

We play this SG to learn and I doubt this one decision will cripple us decicively. Calm down and do your best to make up for batts mistake.

However: what is your stance on

Spreading state religion + Spiral minaret vs. Free religion + build up military

Honestly, I don´t think money will be a problem for us in this game and I prefer units that actually can fight

 

[Belisar]

Preturn Check: Something about micromanagement: (You know, I'm always watching )
The following is for improving our play.
The gold city Tiwanaku needs every food it can get and someone built all those mines
on plain-hills (we will have to change those to windmills later).
On the other side, the fish/clam city has a huge food surplus, needs production and
I see farms instead of watermills and workshops!
We need to manage improvements more adequately.
Additional, as stated, we need more workers, will try to fit this.

(1) Machu Picchu and Ontallay finish infrastructure, start workers
explore with our ships and move some defenders back to the core.

(2) The furs city finished lighthouse, start a granary after which it can grow.

(3) I start directing 2 more workers to the soon-to-be city south of Cuzco, clearing
jungle. Alex shows up with a Caravel, it's annoying, he is the only one with
Philosophy and he won't trade with us becaues of religious reasons.

(4) Cause we have to wait for emancipation a considerable period I adopt serfdom
for our workers, should clear the jungle more quickly.

(5) Ontallay and Machu build worker, start a rax for military and settler.

(6) I find a Greek city on the American mainland, maybe the advanced Greeks (science)
are our main problem, not the far behind Americans and Russians.

(7) Game crashed, luckily, I saved last turn
We get Education, start the first univeristy in Ontallya.

(8) Start university in Cuzco, spot 2 barbarian axemen

(9) Kill both axes, start unis in 2 more cities after infrastructure was completed
send settler south.

(10) Start more universities, settler in place.

(11) found Vilcas on the sugar, my feeling tells me that this should be the right
place, no overlap and a lot of production, fresh water within range north.


The future: Liberalism in 7 turns, then we want free speech and free religion.
Maybe we should just drop a cultural bomb in the new city Vilcas, we should get
another Great Artist for our invasion.
The southern city should build the lib very fast, then set it to growth (wheat, cow, fish!)
Don't forget an aqueduct in Cuzco for health next.
Our worker problem is now under control and we need just one more settler, then we are set!
A bit more military wouldn't hurt, rax in Ontallya and in Cuzco in place.
When we are done with 6 unis, -> Oxford!

Good luck batter
Belisar


PS: according to f9 the final AI is Mali, must be on a SE-island, financial, they built NotreD, could be on the same science-level as Greeks

 

[Mr. Blonde]

Thanks for your turns, Belisar. Two notes: Mali are Sp/Fi, a tough competitor for Space race indeed. So we already have two targets for our "peacekeeping operations"

Question: If we conquer a 10th city, drop a CB (or more ) and cities start to flip cough uninntentionally cough would we consider this within our moral code.


Imortant note: The patch is coming out!

We will have to check if the save still works with an updated civIV version. Batt should try on his laptop first.
If the save works some important gameplay changes will concern us: Space Race will require more hammers and modern Techs more beakers. To decide, but imo this will make the game easier for us as we have more time to react to another civ building SR as well.

 

[Belisar]

if the patch works with the save, i would like to patch as soon as possible, had some frustrating crashes on desktop and the food bug on laptop.

concerning the game, i think we wait until we have contact with all civs, the we decide about our main target.
if cities flip to us, and we can´t aband. them, this is not our fault, so i say we just go on normally.

 

[batteryacid]

I came home rather late today , so I played only 7 turns- we need a tech discussion anyway

Here´s what happened in my turns:

CIVS: We meet Mansa Musa- He is buddhist, has 11 cities; Techs: he is up Construction, Horseback riding and archery, as well as music theory and divine right which he doesn´t want to trade; we are up civil service, guilds, Philosophy and Paper

Buildings: Some universities and granayries are finished, but not enough to start Oxford; I switched Cuzco to a jewish monastery as this is our weakest religion and we need it for the happy faces when we switch to free religion

Tile Improvements: Mostly Cottages, as some tiles are not acessible to irrigation and we need them anyway when we have liberalism ; I didn´t set off the culture bomb yet, as it is not yet necessary; this is up to mr.b

Military: we kill some barbs, get two promotions for our axes

Tech: I get liberalism and get Printing press with it, switch our civics according to the discussion to free speech and free religion

Here is something to discuss; The tech - I put it on nationalism to get to democracy, which we will want because of universal sufferage and the statue of liberty; we can switch in banking which we don´t really need at the moment, because we run on 90% research and make only -5 which is enough to finish to democracy without being bancrupt; the cottages we use now should grow us more money with time anyway.

here´s the save

 

[Belisar]

You are perfectly right on the tech issue.
The main priority is improving our economy, -> democracy
With 80-90% science, banking can wait additional turns.
It is no big deal that the Mali has already divine right.
He isn't the tech-top-dog (we have the important things like liberalism)
but our invasion will probably target him, because the most advanced guy is our main opponent in a space-race.

 

[batteryacid]

BTW - is it just something I dreamt somewhen or does the AI get unhappiness when we are the first to switch to emancipation ? BEcause then it is a Must and we can outdistance the AI even more

 

[Mr. Blonde]

IMPORTANT:

I installed the patch today in the morning, my next save will no more be compatible to the vanilla civ4 version.

I could load our save. Then I tried some new games and the game crashed several times in the first rounds. I changed the settings and now it seems to run stable. Don´t forget to hold SHIFT when starting if you have experienced crashes as this will clean the cache.
I will play on sunday as I wasn´t quite in the condition yesterday evening when I came home. Btw, I hope I didn´t loose the sheet from the whiskytasting where I made notes, out of the 13 samples 4-5 were very excellent.

My Plans: research democracy, build oxford university, build 9th city and start to build up military. Missioning in between buildings. Question: tech trading for horsebackriding or construction? What tech could we give away?

 

[Belisar]

Tech: I would try a 2fer (1-1 tech with one AI, then with the same tech another from 2nd AI)

This is the "farm-plan" for Vilcas. Until Biology, we have to pair farms
with mined hills and the rice will speed the growth of the town.
When Biology comes in, we can rearange for even more production.

 

[Mr. Blonde]

played 15 turns, here the log:

6th uni has to be built in the coast city where forge finishes next turn for Oxford Uni
Built courthouses, FP should be possible after the next one.
Cuzco built monasteries (science) and a couple of missionaries.
Settler is built, last city not yet built
Taj Mahal finished in 11 turns

Research: researched Nationalism and Constitution. We could revolt to Representation.
Trades: I traded for construction, horseback riding (we need it for Cavs later) and archery as bonus with Roosevelt and Petter for Code of Laws and Monotheism.
Possible trades: Alex will give us Engineering for Guilds and Civil srevice
Peter Astronomy for Nationalism, Mansa musa Banking for Civil Service and Paper. Don´t sound too good, imo, to discuss.

Dropped Culture Bomb, got another Great Scientist, built Academy in Colossus city.

Belisar is up then Batteryacid

The Save

 

[Belisar]

Sounds like good progress.
Possible tech-deals don't sound good, you are right.
Representation comes in handy, boosts 5 biggest cities, thats an option
for our soon-to-be 9cc
Tomorrow is critical, but cause I am now able to play on the laptop (food-bug solved) there is a chance.

PS: The whiskytasting, Hmmm, musttastealsoinfuture....

 

[Mr. Blonde]

Hmmm....I thought the boost was only for the 3 largest cities (+3 happy faces - not neccessary now and +3 beakers per specialist). If it´s 5 cities go for it as this will mean as well 30 or so more research.

Discussion on what to research after Democracy?

Imo an economic civic should be the focus next, state property may come handy with our watermills and workshops...

For Belisar: build some military between, we are 7th in this field and Astronomy is already out!

 

[batteryacid]

Good news- I installed the patch and it works so far

bad news- the game is just (even at minimum settings) painfully slow on my laptop

I don´t know what I should do- the units are in slowmotion with unanimated battles (looks kind of creepy) and the zooming into the city screen is rather timeconsuming - perehaps I can negotiate for no MM during my turns?

well- I guess improving my gameplay through single player games will take its time - so Mr.B and Belisar will have to live with some "creative" and "but I had the feeling that this will work" moves from my side

 

[Belisar]

Played first 5 turns last night, some MM, throw in Economy for free markets (still some time until
state property or enviroment.)
Spotted a 9-commerce river-town, makes me asking for more , we are in good shape.

To discuss:

Research path. We need both the military path (chemistry...) and
the replaceble-parts path for rails. Additional, Chemistry leads to Biology!

Civics. I think we should go with Representation/Free market/Emancipation and wait with
Universal Suffrage until we have enough towns for the extra shield.