Mustang Sinks a Battleship Armada?

[Jackanape]

Not sure if this is a bug, or if I'm just behind the times, but I'm in a Deity game now. I'm bombarding Baltimore with a Battle ship armada--and another couple of ships. They brought a Mustang in to provide air support.

At first, I thought it was an error--I was told it did 8 points damage--but my Armada was wiped out. I tried a few different reloads to text it. Nothing else hit me, just a single Mustang. Is this normal? I haven't concentrated on naval combat much since taking on Civ VI, so maybe I missed something?

Any and all input appreciated.

(Hey, I just realized I joined here 15 years ago--and only made three posts??? Shame on me!)

 

[Guandao]

Maybe the Mustang nuked your armada?

 

[Jackanape]

Seriously? I would half consider it, but it didn't have the same effect on my ground forces, such as my artillery...or am I looking at it all wrong?

 

[sonicmyst]

Double check if a submarine is nearby. Maybe the Mustang is not the only one hitting your ship

 

[Turrdy]

Well, diety gives the AI +4, and teddy has +5 on the home continent, strafe promotion gives +17 against non-cav units, and with a base strength of 85, that gives the mustang an attack of (85+4+5+17)=111. Your battleship armada has a anti-air-defence of 70 just like a normal battleship, that part does not scale with fleets and armadas. That's a difference of 41. A strength difference of at least 36 is a guaranteed 100HP one-hit kill.
So, that outcome can be explained...

 

[Victoria]

that part does not scale with fleets and armadas

Thanks Turrdy, I learn something new every day! Seems like an oversight to me... I was thinking it must be the sub.

 

[Leyrann]

As for the 8 damage, if a unit is killed, the message reports the damage the attacker takes. I remember being confused by it a few times. But 8 damage on one side sounds like a one-hit kill on the other, as with 30 strength difference it's 100 vs 10 damage.

 

[54teltakt]

Tactical talk, how could you defend the Mustang?

Will multiple Battleships (next to the armada) give you more anti air strengh like shoot multiple times?
Whats with an anti-air-gun thats embarked?
What would patrolling Jets (yours) do next to the armada?

 

[stealth_nsk]

Tactical talk, how could you defend the Mustang?

Carrier?

 

[54teltakt]

...
you mean aircraft right? an empty carrier would get as destroyed as a battleship


but how does it work? when a plane is set on interception does it disturb the enemys aircraft so it wouldn't hit the battleship but fight the plane instead? or would it still hit the ship but recieve multiple attacks and damage

 

[Tech Osen]

Don't think you can put fighters on patrol from a carrier. Huge oversight imo.

 

[Victoria]

You cannot have patrols from a carrier which is pretty buggy. So unless you have a city / airstrip close by your planes cannot help and you have to rely on ship AA.

but how does it work?

I did a thread on this a while back.... You need a missile cruiser to have a good chance and as many other AA ships adjacent to the armada.
The mustang comes in and initially the strength of your best AA unit is used with +5 for every other AA unit adjacent to the armada. This damage is done to the Mustang before it attacks but with an attack strength that high you really are in trouble.... its time to change tactics.... after the AA damage is calculated the mustang attacks vs the armada strength with up to -9 for the damage so is still gonna do pretty awesome damage. That +17 promotion is a killer..... I did not think the sea counted as +5 for teddy... you really need to look at combat_log.csv to see what values were used.
Armadas/armies have their place but they are not always best by a long shot... So 3 battleships would have allowed +10 in air defense in this case. The armada not scaling AA is just insane.

 

[54teltakt]

lets say we can put patrolling aircrafts next to our battleship, would they attack together with the AA of the ships dealing more damage to the enemys plane or do they stop it from attacking your battleship? thats how I'd understand intercepting.
in the case you described you can defend any attacks from sea by plane(s) and you would need artillery on land to take the city

 

[stealth_nsk]

Don't think you can put fighters on patrol from a carrier. Huge oversight imo.

Oh, didn't know that. Yes, that's hugely needed.

 

[Turrdy]

I did not think the sea counted as +5 for teddy...

That's unknown to me, tbh. In another scenario: if you fight on continent border where you attack from your home continent onto an enemy which is on a different continent, does the teddy-bonus count or not?
in the scenario with the mustang and the armada, that wouldn't make a difference though, since 5 less strength for the mustang is still a difference of 36 a.k.a one-hit kill.
I couldn't test the scenario thouroughly in that regard. Although I could test that AA-defense doesn't scale! Btw: if you attack with a (jet-)bomber you'll get -17 attack strenght because of the bombers malus against units (Bombers have the Torpedo-Bomber promotion though, which counteracts that with a +17 bonus when attcking ships)

 

[Victoria]

or do they stop it from attacking your battleship? thats how I'd understand intercepting.

Nope, interception is how I described, one single defence based on the strongest intercepting unit with other units providing +5 each in support
You may be talking about strategic bombing (nukes or wrecking a tile)... these attacks fail if the bomber takes more than 50% damage from the intercept

That's unknown to me, tbh. In another scenario: if you fight on continent border where you attack from your home continent onto an enemy which is on a different continent, does the teddy-bonus count or not

Target square is what counts, not source square..... so for example in the war weariness thread I posted An archer in home territory shoots outside her territory she gets weariness of a foreign battle rather than a home - look at How War Weariness Works - WIPEqually attacking into you

Look at it the other way around to make sense, you are one tile outside your continent attacking in, which tile should be used for the bonus?

 

[54teltakt]

so even a plane would just give you +5 support bonus...thats realy weak

but we can conclude that a city defended by plane(s) is pretty save

 

[Turrdy]

so even a plane would just give you +5 support bonus...thats realy weak

but we can conclude that a city defended by plane(s) is pretty save

Problem is that a citycenter can only support one plane and an aerodrome ist pretty easily taken...

 

[Victoria]

but we can conclude that a city defended by plane(s) is pretty save

You guys need to really read this thread

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/questions-on-air-combat-and-anti-nuke-testing-pg4.622055/

 

[Turrdy]

You guys need to really read this thread

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/questions-on-air-combat-and-anti-nuke-testing-pg4.622055/

well, seems i have to take back my statement about a city supporting only one plane that patrolling mechanic isn't very well thought through though, imho