My analysys

DonaldAtHome

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Nov 7, 2005
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We paid $30 for a $10 (very small) game, other than that I only have two complaints:

1) Each turn should be a month, not a year. Seven months to build a wooden school house is about right, seven years is insane. Crossing the ocean in two years? One way? I know it's just a game, but we deserve better than this. Especially for $30. Heck, they could even throw in the change of seasons. Dangerous ocean crossing conditions in winter.

Jamestown was settled around 1650, so 1791-1650=141 years, which means 1,692 turns at normal speed would be the correct game. The current game is too short to play. You could play at a slower speed (epic?!?), but then it would take 14 years to build a wooden school house. Nonsense. There are a lot more buildings they could have added. They used windmills at Williamsburg. Candle makers. Paper. Bakery. Not suggesting they add master candlemakers or bakers, but adding the buildings could keep you busy during the 1,692 game turns, and each could add a small bonus. One hammer, one food, something small.

2) For being so important, trade is a mess. Wagons on trade routs should be small, about 10%, and moving slowly back and forth along the roads. Or maybe not show them at all, if you have a decent trade screen. Only wagons you are personally moving should be full scale.

There needs to be a trade map showing resources, inventory, and trade routs. You need to be able to make adjustments to trade via that map. I want the game to last longer, but not because I have to play accountant every turn.

It might be nice if you could trade with other parts of Europe, possibly at a discount, if the King taxes you too high. Or have smugglers who pay no taxes if they don't get caught. And I have yet to figure out how to trade with the Indians, or colonies of other countries. I am sure it's easy, but the whole trade mess makes my eyes glaze over and I give up.

In conclusion, it's a fun game, and nice to look at, but they really went cheap on us. Very disappointing, especially after the impressive Civ4 game. I give it 7 out of 10, maybe 6. Too bad.
 
We paid $30 for a $10 (very small) game, other than that I only have two complaints:

1) Each turn should be a month, not a year. Seven months to build a wooden school house is about right, seven years is insane. Crossing the ocean in two years? One way? I know it's just a game, but we deserve better than this. Especially for $30. Heck, they could even throw in the change of seasons. Dangerous ocean crossing conditions in winter.

Jamestown was settled around 1650, so 1791-1650=141 years, which means 1,692 turns at normal speed would be the correct game. The current game is too short to play. You could play at a slower speed (epic?!?), but then it would take 14 years to build a wooden school house. Nonsense. There are a lot more buildings they could have added. They used windmills at Williamsburg. Candle makers. Paper. Bakery. Not suggesting they add master candlemakers or bakers, but adding the buildings could keep you busy during the 1,692 game turns, and each could add a small bonus. One hammer, one food, something small.

2) For being so important, trade is a mess. Wagons on trade routs should be small, about 10%, and moving slowly back and forth along the roads. Or maybe not show them at all, if you have a decent trade screen. Only wagons you are personally moving should be full scale.

There needs to be a trade map showing resources, inventory, and trade routs. You need to be able to make adjustments to trade via that map. I want the game to last longer, but not because I have to play accountant every turn.

It might be nice if you could trade with other parts of Europe, possibly at a discount, if the King taxes you too high. Or have smugglers who pay no taxes if they don't get caught. And I have yet to figure out how to trade with the Indians, or colonies of other countries. I am sure it's easy, but the whole trade mess makes my eyes glaze over and I give up.

In conclusion, it's a fun game, and nice to look at, but they really went cheap on us. Very disappointing, especially after the impressive Civ4 game. I give it 7 out of 10, maybe 6. Too bad.

Not sure point 1 makes that much sense in a civ cgame, but everything in point 2 is right on and would make the game MUCH MUCH better.
 
Even if it is standalone, it's a (30$ or 10$) mod, and, among Civilization IV series mods, this is by far the most advanced - almost everything is changed. Still, buying CivIV+BTS and playing other mods probably costs a similar price and has a longer playing expectancy.

I guess it looked fancy: "remaking a 90s game".
 
Obviously you never played the original game from 1994, because some of the issues you're complaining about were taken care of in the original.

1.) From year 1600 to the end of the game there was spring and fall. And the one fact it did affect was the behaviour of the natives. If your colony was low on food in fall, very often friendly tribes would bring you some food to help you through the winter. Or other way round, hungry tribes were asking for some. The tribes also tend to buy coats in fall, not in spring. Makes kinda sense.

2.) Trade was automated by trade routes which you could even give names. You defined exactly which city would import or export a certain product and in which order. That means: "Pick cotton in colony 1, deliver it to colony 2, pick up the created cloth and deliver it to city 3". Worked quite well.

3.) After adding a certain founding father, trade with other European colonies became possible, which was especially helpful after the first goods get boycotted in your homeland. Oh, yeah, and custom houses which would sell all goods automatically. VERY useful after declaring Independance.

4.) Oh, and the other European ships carried lots of goods. So piracy actually had a strategic quality, capturing those Spanish galleons with their guns and horses for intended battles against the natives and either selling them to the natives to let them start war against the Spanish or keeping the goods for yourself. Or selling it to the French (or Dutch) and let them start a war against the Spanish.

But then, that was 1994. They don't make such games anymore. :(
 
Not sure point 1 makes that much sense in a civ game ....

This isn't a CIV game. No research, no wonders, time span of much less than 6000 years. Your CIV does not evolve, though it developes from a colony to a "state".

Yashed To, you are breaking my heart. No, I never played the first version. How could they have abandoned so many good ideas? This was about quick cash. We got hosed.:sad:
 
And that, gentle people, is why you don't submit to the idiotic "gotta have it yesterday!!!!!!" pressure. After the remake disasters of Pirates and Railroads, I could be pretty sure this was going to be more of the same crap.

Come on Sid, stop being an ostrich! Let the daylight hit your face, and see that there really IS more to making a game than making pretty screenshots.
 
Yashed To, you are breaking my heart. No, I never played the first version. How could they have abandoned so many good ideas? This was about quick cash. We got hosed.:sad:

I still play the original game at times. Of course it would probably seem much too primitive to most people today, but the fact is that it *does* include more things than Col II and has much more depth. I really don't understand what the developers were thinking of when they produced Col II. They ripped out the heart of the game, shortened the time span and geared everything to the War of Independence, which I found to be a bit of a bore even in the original game, but at least the size of the Royal Expeditionary Force wasn't tied to the production of liberty bells. I think that with the present graphics, some annoying features removed and the introduction of cultural borders (all three implemented in Col II), the old game would have served quite well. Instead, we get this new ¤}&#£½"£$€/§$!!! of a game. I'm going to fire up a game of the original Colonization. I have already put away the disk with the new one, and absent a really impressive patch (more like a thorough revision) or an absolutely stunning mod, it will stay there.
 
Öjevind Lång;7342026 said:
Of course it would probably seem much too primitive to most people today, but the fact is that it *does* include more things than Col II and has much more depth.
Like what. It has much more depth. Tell us what depth means and give us examples. Otherwise you're full it.
 
Öjevind Lång;7342026 said:
I still play the original game at times. Of course it would probably seem much too primitive to most people today, but the fact is that it *does* include more things than Col II and has much more depth. I really don't understand what the developers were thinking of when they produced Col II. They ripped out the heart of the game, shortened the time span and geared everything to the War of Independence, which I found to be a bit of a bore even in the original game, but at least the size of the Royal Expeditionary Force wasn't tied to the production of liberty bells. I think that with the present graphics, some annoying features removed and the introduction of cultural borders (all three implemented in Col II), the old game would have served quite well. Instead, we get this new ¤}&#£½"£$€/§$!!! of a game. I'm going to fire up a game of the original Colonization. I have already put away the disk with the new one, and absent a really impressive patch (more like a thorough revision) or an absolutely stunning mod, it will stay there.
Agreed. this game makes me realise that CivIV is a brilliant game, how beautiful simple it is yet it offers so much challenge.

Col is just a ripoff as it is right now. I played the game maybe 6 games nd I had more than enough. The magic is just gone.
 
Like what. It has much more depth. Tell us what depth means and give us examples. Otherwise you're full it.

OK. Here goes.

1. The other European civs were a genuine menace. You had to look out for them and get a fairly large standing army soon, because otherwise you were history. Also, they had plenty of money and traded properly, with Europe and with the Indians, so piracy was actually worthwhile, as was trading with them. And they were prone to sell muskets to Indian villages near your colonies. That made the Indians more dangerous, which meant that hijacking those trade ships was advantageous from several points of view.

2. The other European civs liked to send missionaries to Indian villages near you. If they were successful, the attitude to you in that Indian village became increasingly hostile. The other European civs also liked to send missionaries to oust your missions, and they were frequently successful. And even if you finally managed to establish a new mission in that village, it was less effective than the old one. If you failed, there was the sound of sizzling meat and the message: "Loyal Sioux/Arawaks/Whatever burn your missionary at the stake". If you were successful, the sizzling sound was due to the Indian setting fire to your rival's mission and building a new one for your missionary.

3 The sizzling meat effect also happened if you failed to establish a new mission in the village of a tribe who had become hostile to your missionaries - and to you - because you had spammed them with missionaries. Your missonary couldn't just return home.

4. Indian converts could not be made into missionaries.

5. Jesuits were superior to ordinary missionaries also because if you destroyed the village they were in, they emerged unscathed from the ruins.

6. You had to find something for an Indian convert to do within six turns; otherwise, the convert became desillusioned and returned to his village.

7. If you spammed an Indian nation with missionaries, after a while they became cautious, and then offended and then finally hostile. It took time to appease them. Of course, if one waited a substantial number of turns one could then establish new missions without provoking the Indians into attacking you or make them refuse to trade with you.

8. Each Indian nation had its own characteristics. For example, the Arawaks would sometimes kill your scouts even if they were friendly with you. On the other hand, if you groomed them long enough with trade and gifts, they could become fiercely loyal to you. Or to one of your rivals, who had followed that policy. The Sioux and the Apache wanted to buy horses from you for a long time, The Aztecs and particularly the Inca had more money to trade with than the others and often sold you silver at a very cheap price. The Tupi never had much money to trade with; on the upside, it took a lot of negligence and/or provocation before they became so upset at you that they (or a group of braves their chief denied any connection with) attacked one of your colonies, stealing goods or money, destroying a building or even at times killing a colonist. On top of that, the various tribes tended to prefer different trade goods. The Incas always liked tools whereas the Tupi and the Apache and the Sioux had no use for them. The Indians were not pussycats the way they are now unless you go to war with them. You always had to be braced for an attack from them, and you had to carefully monitor their attitude to you and trade fairly frequently with them to keep them well disposed towards you. Occasionally simply giving something to them as a gift was also a good idea.

9. The Indians had money throughout the game; in fact, my impression is that the more often you traded with them, the more did their economy flourish, which makes sense to me.

10. Indian villages only trained an expert once. I have now decided that this is better than the new system where they keep providing you with an infinite number of experts. Now they even train Indian experts, who then become Europeans!

11. The Indians didn't like to trade with ships. If you traded from a ship, they paid less and sold less, and after a while the tribe in question refused to trade with ships at all. That meant that building a trade wagon was an early priority, since trade was one of the best ways to keep the Indians pleased with you.

12. Educating people in schools did not become an ever longer process. Instead, the pace of education depended on whether you had added a college and a university, and also on the number of liberty bells generated in that city. Schools could only train the basic skills such as fishing and carpentry. You needed a college for experts such as tobacco planters and master distillers, and a university for elder statesmen, firebrand preachers, Jesuit priests and veteran soldiers.

13. The size of the king's army was not dependent on the generation of liberty bells - a moronic feature in Col II. Instead, the REF was very big from the outset, and the king added to it from time to time whatever you did or didn't do. That meant that an early revolution was definitely preferable, but you didn't have to be afraid of generating liberty bells before the final phase. Neither could you use the present "Turtle and generate no liberty bells - then speedbuild the revolutionary spirit and fight against a quite small REF" exploit.

14. Printing presses and newspapers generated liberty bells without statesmen.

15. The game was much longer. I don't mean that everything took longer to build; it was longer. You had from 1492 until 1850 to become independent. That meant that each stage in your colonization experience was given due attention and was interesting in its own right: founding your first colonies and exploring the map, establishing relationships with the other European civs, getting an economy going, fighting Indian wars or trying to keep the Indians happy, trading with the Indians throughout the game, diversifying your economy, fighting with the other Europeans (almost impossible to evade), preparing for independence and then finally fighting the war for independence.

16. The pace at which the king added to the REF differed according to difficulty setting.

17. The map was much larger, making exploration last longer and be more interesting. The standard map was bigger than the "huge" map in Col II.

18. You didn't stumble over treasure everywhere. On the other hand, if you did find treasure it was much bigger on average than now.

19. Sometimes you discovered burial mounds. You were given the options "Yes, let's dig for treasure!" and "No, stay away from those!". If you decided to dig for treasure, you could find a treasure or just empty, damp tunnels. You could also make the local tribe furious with you for a long time, in which case they killed your scout (unless he got off their land swiftly) and every other unit belonging to you they encountered for a considerable number of turns.

20. If you did find a treasure, you didn't send it unescorted to your nearest colony, or to the coast and a waiting galleon, because it was very likely that Indians would attack it and take it. Or else some European rival did it.

21. Though seasoned scouts sometime spontaneously appeared on the emigration dock in Europe, you couldn't just buy them from the experts menu.

22. If a city grew too fast, you got a handicap in that city - production and education tanked. In other words, you simply had to expand.

23. Wars in Europe affected your relations with the other civs in the New World. The king could cancel your peace treaty with a rival and tell you to fight him. He gave you some money and troops to aid you - less of both as the game progressed.

24. If you generated enough liberty bells after your declaration of independence, one of the other European powers would come to your help and give you a number of troops and warships, including men-of-war The size depended on the difficulty level, and that goes both for the requisite number of liberty bells and the size of the forces you were given by the European power.

25. The Indians refused to train petty criminals; you had to do that yourself. And when you did that, they first turned into indentured servants and then into normal colonists, and first after that did they become experts. However, this promotion mechanism was also at work in wars, and it could end with a criminal becoming a veteran soldier - as could, of course, any colonist except those who already were experts in something.

26. Sometimes in the spring the Indians came begging for food, and whether you gave it to them or not affected their attitude to you. On the other hand, the Inca often turned up with a lot of food when you had first founded a colony on their land.

27. If you set a free colonist (not a criminal or an indentured servant or someone who already had a profession) to, for example, cultivate tobacco, fish or hunt fur animals, and left him there for a time, he would very likely turn into an expert of that kind. The odds after the first expert were steep, though; you could seldom get more than one expert that way in a game, and I never got three. But that meant that you didn't necessarily have to hunt around the map for a village which taught the first specialty you desired. (This training someone to become an expert through practice only worked early in the game.)

28. I could go on for quite a while, but the long and the short of it is that the original game wasn't a one pony show like the new one. It lasted longer and was much more fun.
 
@ Öjevind:

Now, if ever someone should come up and ask what was so good about Col I, I'll direct them to that post. You pretty well summed it up (I didn't have the nerve of putting together that very looong list), and I can agree with you on ALL points.

If the developers would have mixed up just one or two, okay. But yours is a list of 16 valid points, and so they just goofed.

In Germany Col I was released as a freeby in the largest games mag, GameStar, last month. Sort of a suicide action, when comparing both versions. :crazyeye:
 
I think the most important thing is the atmosphere. In the beginning you almost felt lost. Dense forests everywhere, indians owned most of the land so your early colonies weren't of much use, but eventually you would get a system working and by the time you declared independence, almost all of your people would be educated and safe inside might fortresses. I loved how it made me build a great nation from scratch, a nation so powerful that it didn't need the motherland anymore.

Col II works the opposite way. The longer you wait, the longer time it will take for you to educate your own people. Buying Statesmen for 1500 gold is a lot better deal than to wait 50 turns and pay 500 gold. And the high taxes makes it even harder, since education costs money. You can't trade with the other europeans and you pretty much have to wipe out your indian neighbour or he will eventually crush you when you least expect it. In my last game, I was +3 with Cherokee, playing as the French. Suddenly, they declared war and razed three of my colonies that weren't even close to theirs.
 
@ Öjevind:
If the developers would have mixed up just one or two, okay. But yours is a list of 16 valid points, and so they just goofed.

It's even a list of 24 valid points; Öjevind described the "magic" of original Colonization pretty precisely, but he's lousy at counting. :lol: At least after this excellent post it becomes clear that he is not the one who is "full of it". :p
 
It's even a list of 24 valid points; Öjevind described the "magic" of original Colonization pretty precisely, but he's lousy at counting. :lol: At least after this excellent post it becomes clear that he is not the one who is "full of it". :p

Oops! :lol: I kept thinking of new things to add. And even so, my list wasn't exhaustive. I'll do some renumbering and add a feature or two.
 
I have one that wrote in another thread:

In the old game, other things than liberty bells affected rebel sentiment. For example, rebel sentiment would increase every time you turned the king down and had a tobacco party for example. This made a lot of sense to me.
 
I have one that wrote in another thread:

In the old game, other things than liberty bells affected rebel sentiment. For example, rebel sentiment would increase every time you turned the king down and had a tobacco party for example. This made a lot of sense to me.

I completely agree. With the new feature of the king asking for contributions, it would also make sense to let the king delay his next tax increase if you pay up, as in Snoopy and Dale's patchmod.
 
@Ojevind Lang,

You have validated my HUGE dissapointment in this game too!! I can't believe I was a sucker for the pre-order of it. But then again I looked for Col1 a coupel years ago becasue I remember the fun I had playing it on my friends computer...back in 95. I didn't even own a computer then but was intrigued with the concept and depth of the game. You would think that with all the effort that went into CIV vanilla and certainly the expansions we woudl have gotten the same caliber in Col2. I wish I coudl get my money back but I guess I live with my mistake and only be fooled once.

BTW, I'm brand new to posting in the forums(but lurked for a long time) and CoL2 is one of the resons for that, so I guess I can thank it for something!

I going to look for CoL I now because I want to play the game as it was meant to be played, and that I will enjoy, IMO. And I'll stick with cIV (all versions) for now.

I wonder what we can expect for cIV?
 
A lot of crap no doubt.

I played Col II once and gave the game away to a work collegue, one play was enough to realise how rubbish and broke it was.

Railroads was the same, this series is going down hill quicker than the stock exchanges.
 
I'm brand new to posting in the forums(but lurked for a long time) and CoL2 is one of the resons for that, so I guess I can thank it for something!

Welcome! :) As for Civ V, I do believe they'll put more of an effort into making that a solid, unbroken game.
 
There needs to be a trade map showing resources, inventory, and trade routs. You need to be able to make adjustments to trade via that map.

If Firaxis couldn't be bothered to put features like this in Railroads!, what makes you think you'd get it in a Civ 4 Mod?
 
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