My favourite use for great artists

[obsolete]

I never did care for great artists that much. But lately I'm really loving them for warmongering. It's great that the same turn you capture a city, you create the painting and poof, the city comes out of anarchy and works for you. But I also re-discovered the other night how it also builds up an instant culture defence (I got 80%) in a city. This certainly helps out on the AI's counter attack, which is coming usualy very soon. Like the next round.

Now I know that some players keep their artists around for just this purpose. But I didn't realize that you benefit on the defence instantly too. These two bonuses are really making me think it's best to keep the artists around to move with my armies. Of course if they are sitting for a long time in wait, you are losing culture and gold that they could be making each turn (and other bonuses depending on civics + wonders). But I think in the long run, warmongers are better off taking a small penalty by keeping them in reserve until the next city is captured. Even if it will take a while.

 

[Michelangelo]

I wasn't aware of the elimination of the anarchy period with the use of an artist. Those 7-10 turns for big cities really slow progress.

 

[kniteowl]

during a war when you have an Ally with you... your ally captures a couple of cities from your enemy so I Culture Bomb a City near my recently Ally's captured cities and flip them to me MUAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH

 

[futurehermit]

i had no idea either of the elimination of anarchy. that's pretty huge! also, the cultural defence is nice.

i guess it just depends on whether or not you can lightbulb a decent tech or not with them as to which use is better. if i get one (i try and avoid it), i'll save him for nationalism usually.

 

[Sparta]

i had no idea either of the elimination of anarchy. that's pretty huge! also, the cultural defence is nice.

i guess it just depends on whether or not you can lightbulb a decent tech or not with them as to which use is better. if i get one (i try and avoid it), i'll save him for nationalism usually.

FWIW, another promising result of that mechanic is that if you get a really late GA (which I typically loathe anyway), you can pocket him for when you are finally within a few percent of breaking the domination land limit. At that point, you can use him in your most promising (semi-central) newly captured city, and voila, instant domination!

Nothing major, obviously, but it can shave a few turns off your victory date, and therefore net you some extra points.

 

[johnny_rico]

You should be wary when instantly bringing a captured city out of anarchy with a great artist. What I find often happens is the anarchy ends but enough culture isn't generated to gain control of enough tiles to work the city, thus starving it badly. This is especially true when capturing one of the AIs capitals or early cities. The 4000 culture isn't going to be enough to wrest control of all tiles in the BFC. What good is flipping the city if it is just wasting away?

True, the cultural defense is nice, however, I try to have a large enough garrison to secure the city from counter attack. If my military was running thin, I might use the GA immediately for the added defense. Instead, once I capture a mighty city, I try to push hard on the neighboring cities so that the great artist will yield control of all BFC tiles when he paints his masterpiece.

 

[ChicagoCubs]

If you drop a culture bomb in a city that is not in revolt, you get 4000 points of culture.

If that city is in revolt, you use up some of the 4000 to end the revolt and the balance is added to the city.

Sometimes it is better to wait for the revolt to end, then drop the culture bomb to get some tiles to work.

 

[siggboy]

You should be wary when instantly bringing a captured city out of anarchy with a great artist. What I find often happens is the anarchy ends but enough culture isn't generated to gain control of enough tiles to work the city, thus starving it badly. This is especially true when capturing one of the AIs capitals or early cities. The 4000 culture isn't going to be enough to wrest control of all tiles in the BFC. What good is flipping the city if it is just wasting away?

True, the cultural defense is nice, however, I try to have a large enough garrison to secure the city from counter attack. If my military was running thin, I might use the GA immediately for the added defense. Instead, once I capture a mighty city, I try to push hard on the neighboring cities so that the great artist will yield control of all BFC tiles when he paints his masterpiece.

These are some very good observations. If you can't take the neighbouring cities straight away as well, then the GA is of limited use (except for the defense bonus, of course, which is nice; I've also never thought of this).

There is another very nice trick which somebody mentioned in another thread. You don't need a GA for this, but you have to be running caste system (either you're running it anyway, or you're spiritual for a cheap switch). In that case, assign as many artist specialists as possible in the newly captured city, while it is still in anarchy. The artists are indeed generating culture while the anarchy lasts, so when the city finally turns productive, you get an instant access to the fat cross. This of course only works if the city is large enough (ie. you can assign enough artists) and if there is no cultural pressure from neighbouring cities (same problem as with culture bomb).
I've just used this tactic when I captured the capital of Julius which had 16 pop and was on a peninsula with 3 seafood resources, and marble, which I badly needed to build wonders. Actually, when I captured the cities, the computer automatically assigned all the artists for me (I was running caste system already). I don't know why, but I guess the designers have thought of this aspect already -- or it is a feature of Blake's Better AI, which I'm using.
So after the revolt ended (10 turns), all the seafood and the marble was instantly accessible, and there was no starvation but instant growth. Very, very nice. Plus I didn't need a GA.

--Sigi

 

[JackOfClubs]

This of course only works if the city is large enough (ie. you can assign enough artists) and if there is no cultural pressure from neighbouring cities (same problem as with culture bomb).

And the citizens are not red. The first turn after you capture a city a certain percentage of the citizens will be angry (usually all of them in my experience) so they can't be assigned. I think they slowly convert to white assignable citizens as the rebellion dwindles, but I have never looked into the details of how quickly this happens.

 

[acidsatyr]

How quickly can you whip...

 

[obsolete]

during a war when you have an Ally with you... your ally captures a couple of cities from your enemy so I Culture Bomb a City near my recently Ally's captured cities and flip them to me MUAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH

The problem on Monarch, is trying to get cities to flip just doesn't work with all the bias against you. At least in my experience I haven't seen this happen yet at this level.

 

[Phrederick]

In that case, assign as many artist specialists as possible in the newly captured city, while it is still in anarchy. The artists are indeed generating culture while the anarchy lasts, so when the city finally turns productive, you get an instant access to the fat cross.

Are you positive? I'm pretty sure that you only get the culture generated from the turn immediately before it comes out of anarchy. I'll have to test this, but I doubt this works.

Another nice way to get access to the BFC quickly is with Notre Dame. That +2 culture per specialist quickly adds up, and means that you don't even need to use artists.

 

[obsolete]

To be honest, I never play around that much with specialists. I keep finding it tends to do more harm than good to the city's output. I"m sure there is a correct way to do things but... if say add a scientist then I'll find out the growth just stops, etc... If I'm racing for a speical tech (like one that will give another free tech), then I understand their use there.

 

[UncleJJ]

In that case, assign as many artist specialists as possible in the newly captured city, while it is still in anarchy. The artists are indeed generating culture while the anarchy lasts, so when the city finally turns productive, you get an instant access to the fat cross.

Are you positive? I'm pretty sure that you only get the culture generated from the turn immediately before it comes out of anarchy. I'll have to test this, but I doubt this works.

Another nice way to get access to the BFC quickly is with Notre Dame. That +2 culture per specialist quickly adds up, and means that you don't even need to use artists.

You're right the culture when a city recovers from revolt is only from the turn before it comes out of revolt. I find that the free broadcast tower from Eiffel Tower is another useful way to get artists in a city in revolt. The Caste System is more trouble than it's worth in war (as it can't deal with unhappiness) and I usually run Slavery and whip in a theatre as the first building.

And it's Sistine Chapel that gives specialists the +2 culture, and not Notre Dame.

 

[Michelangelo]

If you drop a culture bomb in a city that is not in revolt, you get 4000 points of culture.

If that city is in revolt, you use up some of the 4000 to end the revolt and the balance is added to the city.

Sometimes it is better to wait for the revolt to end, then drop the culture bomb to get some tiles to work.

Do you have any numbers on how this works? Just a general rule of thumb, something like "you can make a size 7 city happy with an artist with no culture left."

 

[mike p]

It's kind of a neat trick, to be sure, but is it really worth burning up all the beakers you could get for lightbulbing something in order to start working a city 8 turns sooner that is probably going to be unhappy and starving and have most of its research multiplier buildings destroyed? It seems very wasteful to me and I would only do it in a narrow set of circumstances, such as kniteowl mentioned, where a 3rd civ has recently captured cities nearby.

 

[Quagga]

It seems very wasteful to me and I would only do it in a narrow set of circumstances, such as kniteowl mentioned, where a 3rd civ has recently captured cities nearby.

Or when it gives you immediate access to iron, oil, etc. The problem is that it often produces weird-shaped cultural boundaries; you might not get that resource after all. (I'm certain there is a mathematical way to predict what the shape will be, but I haven't been motivated to learn it.)

 

[obsolete]

I never run the caste system. Probably because I am warmongring so much. I just don't see the benefit of extra culture in my captured cities, when I have other priorities for civics. Also since most times I am not spiritual, I am getting anarchy when ever I convert. I try to keep converting to a minimum.

If my city needs culture because it is getting hampered, no problem. I just attack the other city that is causing it. Attack the problem at its source.

 

[shyuhe]

how many of the GA's culture points are used to bring the city out of revolt? I've never tried this before so I have no clue how many culture points you lose...