My Life as a Barbarian

[TimTheEnchanter]

Based on something I saw posted in one of the forums a while back, I decided to try a game acting as a "Barbarian"

Basically this means following a few self-imposed rules:

(1) No building of cities with settlers - However, cities *can* be obtained from huts, capture, or riot.
(2) Once a city has been obtained, it can only build units - no improvements or wonders.
(3) Troops may not be "stationed" in any city square for defense.

Now that doesn't mean I didn't attempt to actively defend the cities, I just had to do it from outside the city square.

Since I was making my own rules, I made a couple exceptions to #3. I did allow troops to stop (unfortified) in cities just long enough to regain full strength, at which point they must move back out. I also let a new unit stay in a city for one turn when another unit was coming toward the city and moving out would have been suicide - my unit attacked on the next turn.

Since I was just messing around, I did do a restart of the Autosave file a couple times. The "real" barbs evidently can ignore Zones of Control and got to a city that I wasn't expecting.

I did this on King level with 7 civs and Restless Tribes(BIG mistake) on a small map. So far, I've made it to 800 AD and just captured my 3rd city, finally giving me an ocean port. I've taken a few other cities, but the population loss caused them to evaporate. I've managed to kill off 2 of the other civs, and the Indians are wavering, but theo others appear pretty strong. I'm in Monarchy, cranking out elephants, legions, and diplomats.

I've been helped by the fact that all 7 civs were connected by land so I could find them without boats. 6 (including me) were on one huge continent and the 7th is connected by the N. Pole.

Almost all my knowledge has come through exchanging techs, since I only generate a couple beakers per turn myself, and didn't have *any* cities (thus no research) for the first few millenia. I have been a tech intermediary between the Egyptians and Vikings who will eventually wipe me out. I'm pretty sure I can't win at this, but it is an interesting excercise.

Try it!

------------------
There are some who call me...Tim

 

[CornMaster]

Hey!!! That was my idea.

I never finished the game though. I've tried several times. One time I had 6 legions, 2 settlers...but I got stuck on an island

My next game I destroyed the Chinese and was allied with the Mongols but I broke the treaty and they destroyed me.

But is a fun challenge!!!

------------------
<IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/king.gif" border=0> I AM CANADIAN! <IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/king.gif" border=0>
CivFanatics Moderator and Tech Support
CivFanatics Civ 2 Ladder
My Civ 2 Scenario Page.

 

[Danja]

Do you know how i was a barbarian? I was sick and impatient, and playing WWII. I wass russian and allied with Allies (go figure). They were getting their buts kicked by german subs, and kept asking me for military help. I got so annoyed, I turned on Cheat Mode, and planted an AEGIS cruiser on every ocean square, effectivly stopping the attacks. Then, blokaded rome on all sides and capured it. I did the same to every ocean city. Once I had them surrounded, I pushed in with every unit, from riflemen to armor to helicopter that I could create. The germans went down. Now, I am not sick and not as impatient, so I don't know what to do with that game. The next step will probably be deleting my self. It is kinda fun.

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

VICTORY IS MINE!!!!! Long live the Barbarian Russians!!

Cornmaster: IT CAN BE DONE!! I conquered the world using “barbarian rules”!

Disclaimer: As I mentioned in the first post, I did a few restores, mostly it was when I forgot to unfortify a unit and attack an oncoming bad guy who then killed my superior offensive unit, so it isn’t a completely cheat-free game. But the whole point was to see if it could even be done, and if I could learn anything from it, not any sort of claim to personal greatness.

Anyway, I finally captured the last Viqueen city in 1930-something. Judging by the reaction to the first post, not many people care, so this is mostly a cathartic exercise for me. (Apologies for the length

)

Some observations :
As I mentioned before I was helped greatly by the terrain. We were actually all on one continent (there was an isthmus to the Egyptian land that I had not found earlier). I have never before seen a map like that where 95% of the land is in one continent. The terrain was in general very rugged, which helped immensely as I could put defensive units in forts on strategic hills or mountains and watch the bad guys die attempting to attack.

The AI is So-o-o-o-o stupid. All they needed to do was send about 3 units in a coordinated attach against almost any one of my cities and they probably could have taken it. Either that or use a Dip to get by my ZOC before I can attack. But no-o-o-o! They send one elephant at a time. Also, they did not expand much at all, even when left alone for centuries.

After being a pain early in the game, the “real” barbarians became my friends later. Because there was so much empty land between my cities and the Vikings, the barbs pounded the vikes for centuries while I got positioned to take the Egyptians, and Persians. I could also get a rough idea of where the Vikings were located by seeing where a barb battle took place. Several Viking units were killed by barbs as they approached my cities. <IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/smile.gif" border=0>

The Vikings were my sugar daddy until I killed all the other civs. They were far away from most of my cities, so not much of a direct threat. I traded techs with them whenever I could, and demanded tribute often. This was almost my entire source of cash and techs, since I was monarchy with no capital: corruption killed my trade. They traded away key techs like Gunpowder and Steam Engine as if they were something like Seafaring. Right before I wiped out the Persians I was running low on gold. My Norse buddies had not been in a giving mood for a while, but after trading a couple more techs I demanded tribute...400 gold! A few turns later I got another 300 from them. Once I captured Persia, they declared war, but by then it was too late for them. I later used that money to subvert 3 of their cities.

Steam Engine rocks. As soon as the vikes developed Steam Engine I immediately traded for it (I think I gave them bridge building <IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/smile.gif" border=0>). I switched production in a few coastal cities to Ironclads and rushbuilt several of them. I disbanded some units in those cities to help speed production. Once I had 3 or 4, I sent them over to the Viking peninsula and picked a few fights. I killed a couple carvels and got Vet status. They attacked with a couple Ironclads of their own, but I won more than I lost (lucky) giving me more Vets. Once I had the Vet Ironclads, I owned the seas. I could move troops with little fear of attack.

The ending took a little longer than I expected because the Vikes switched to democracy so I had to take the last 3 or 4 cities the old-fashioned way instead of inciting riots.

I had to disband a couple ex-Viking cities late in the game because they were too hard to defend.

The AI seems to adjust its growth and research based on your own rate. I had almost no trade in my cities, but the other civs never advanced much either. We were well into in the 1900s and the last tech anyone discovered was Leadership. I had left the Vikings alone for almost the entire game so it’s not like I held them back in any way.

I doubt this could be done on anything higher than King (at least by me). Because of the ”barbarian rules”, you have no martial law and no happy improvements, so under king, I only had 3 active workers (and usually one elvis) in most of my cities. I could typically squeeze 5-10 shields out of each city, and about half of those were supporting units. Waste also took its toll. With one less citizen it would be VERY hard to support a defense, an offense, and any production.

Oh well, it was quite a challenge. Time to start the GOTM!

------------------
DEATH awaits you all...with nasty, big, pointy teeth.

[This message has been edited by TimTheEnchanter (edited April 04, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by TimTheEnchanter (edited April 04, 2001).]

 

[Leowind]

What an interesting experiment!! Would it be totally "anti-barbarian" to build a palace and establish a capital? That would make it somewhat simpler, I would think. Also, why not allow 1 unit fortified in a city? Humans play a regular civ better than the AI, why shouldn't a human play the barbarians better than the AI?

------------------
Leowind, former Founder of the Zulu Alliance.
Fighting that ALL may be free from oppression
Join us at Zulus Unite! thread and make the (Civ) world a better place!

 

[Hell-Raiser]

Good Playing TimTheEnchanter!
You brought me on an idea!
Going to do the same! Seems like real fun
and very very veeeerry time killing!

Keep up the good work TimTheEnchanter!

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

Originally posted by Leowind:
What an interesting experiment!! Would it be totally "anti-barbarian" to build a palace and establish a capital? That would make it somewhat simpler, I would think. Also, why not allow 1 unit fortified in a city? Humans play a regular civ better than the AI, why shouldn't a human play the barbarians better than the AI?

Like I said in the first post, the rules are self-imposed, feel free to try whatever you like. I just used what I remembered from Cornmaster's original idea.

I really think fortifying a unit in the city would have made it too easy. The real difficulty in this is that you have to control all routes of access to your cities or an enemy can take it unhindered. If you have a unit in the city, that will at least stall the bad guy (if not kill him) for one extra turn allowing you to send in help to kill him.

I learned a lot about using Zones of Control, using defensive terrain and having a mix of offensive and defensive units. I think it will help me in the future when I need to try to defend large borders and such.

It was interesting. There were a few cities (mostly Persian) that I could have captured at various points in the game, but I didn't because they would have been too hard to defend unless the threat was eliminated from the other side first.

It's nice having a 2 square isthmus with hills on both squares, then fortifying defensive units with an accompanying offensive unit in forts on top of the hills! Kept me safe from the Persians until I could sail around and get enough forces in place to take out their capital. I called it my "Killing Fields". They just sent unit after unit after unit...

------------------
DEATH awaits you all...with nasty, big, pointy teeth.

 

[CornMaster]

Excellent Job Tim!!!!!

A few questions.......I guess you built Diplo's but did you build any settlers? To build roads/forts/irrigation? (Not cities, duh) Did you pillage enemy roads/forts/irrigation? I also suppose you also built ships to but did you use them for transporting units too? And what did you do with the units after you built them (and intended to transport them)? Did you move them out of the city? Or leave them inside? Did you built any improvements or wonders?

A lot of questions, take your time in answering if you want. Excellent Job

------------------
<IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/king.gif" border=0> I AM CANADIAN! <IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/king.gif" border=0>
CivFanatics Moderator and Tech Support
CivFanatics Civ 2 Ladder
My Civ 2 Scenario Page.

 

[Flatlander Fox]

A great idea!!!

But when I tried it I got whupped (badly)!!!

I went all out, no improvements at all, and found that without veteran units, life is most difficult. I couldn't take hardly any city at all without hording as much stuff as possible and throwing it at one city.

My short career as a barb ended as the Carthagians wiped out 4 of my cities, and I was too disgusted (and frustrated) to continue.

Good job man, maybe I'll try it again sometime.

------------------
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at THAT man.

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

Originally posted by CornMaster:
Excellent Job Tim!!!!!

A few questions.......I guess you built Diplo's but did you build any settlers? To build roads/forts/irrigation? (Not cities, duh) Did you pillage enemy roads/forts/irrigation? I also suppose you also built ships to but did you use them for transporting units too? And what did you do with the units after you built them (and intended to transport them)? Did you move them out of the city? Or leave them inside? Did you built any improvements or wonders?

A lot of questions, take your time in answering if you want. Excellent Job <IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/goodwork.gif" border=0> <IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/goodwork.gif" border=0> <IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/goodwork.gif" border=0>

Dips were invaluable. I really don’t think I built more than one or maybe two settlers until late in the game when I needed to disband a couple undefensible size 2 cities. I had two NONE settlers from the start and got one or two inciting cities but that’s it. I didn’t do much with them, mostly building forts and actually using them for defense or ZOC on occasion. I built a few roads here and there, mostly getting to and from forts, but I was afraid to build too many or the bogeys could zip right up to my cities. I only irrigated a couple squares when a city was not using the right squares, because most of my cities were maxed out at 4 citizens one of whom was an elvis. Any more and I went into disorder.

The settlers did play a key role in my conquest of the last two civs (persian and viking). I was able to sail a musketeer onto a hill near the capital of each civ. On the turn the musketeer fortified, I sailed a pre-charged settler onto the same hill. Next turn I set him to building a fortress. Pow! we’ve got a defense factor of at least 12 (more if it was a veteran musket) with 2 hit points and no loss of stacked units. Suddenly I have a nearly unbeatable beachhead where I could start sailing my assault force without fear of being killed. I would eventually get 8 or 9 dips to make sure the Walls came down, a few more Muskets for defense once I captured the city, and a bunch of 2-move offensive units (elephant/knight early, dragoons later) to take the city. Once the capital fell, any remaining dips would go spread cash around the rest of the cities. It takes a long time to set up (especially when you only have 6 size 3 cities on the other side of the map, and only 2 of them are on the ocean!) but it is almost assured to take down a non-democracy civ if you have some cash and aren’t too far behind in military tech.

I also built a few caravans (3 or 4, I think). The bonuses got me over the hump on researching Leadership so I had Dragoons to take out the Viking musketeers. Once I captured the city the trade routes went to they showed up as +0 arrows for both cities. That was pretty depressing.

I didn’t even think about pillaging. I’ve just never done it. I’ll have to look into that.

Definitely used ships for transporting units. I hate trying to advance on a civ a long distance over land (See above for my preferred strategy). I would leave the units outside a city when they were waiting for the next boat, unless they just happened to end a movement turn in a city on their way somewhere in which case they moved out the next turn.

Didn’t build a single improvement or wonder. By the time I was done I had captured Colossus, Embassy, Pyramids, KRC, Hanging Gardens, Copernicus, and Leo. I thought I had gotten 8, but I don’t remember. Colossus maybe got me one extra gold in its city – that’s it. The last 4 were in Viking cities, so I only had them for the last few turns. Gardens allowed me to have 4 active workers in some of my cities, and KRC (in the same city) made that a nice producer (14 shields I think). Since I had basically no research, Leo’s was only a one time upgrade when I captured it. It helped some, but I had already upgraded most of my units by then.

If a city still had improvements when I captured it, I usually sold them unless it was Walls (no support) or a Barracks (very nice for this type of game). My trade and population were so low that none of the other improvements really helped me, and all the happy improvements get destroyed automatically when captured. Now that I think about it, since I didn’t have any units in the cities I probably should have sold the walls too, but I was mostly thinking in terms of keeping my gold cost per turn down.

------------------
DEATH awaits you all...with nasty, big, pointy teeth.

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

Originally posted by Flatlander Fox:
A great idea!!!

But when I tried it I got whupped (badly)!!!

I went all out, no improvements at all, and found that without veteran units, life is most difficult. I couldn't take hardly any city at all without hording as much stuff as possible and throwing it at one city.

My short career as a barb ended as the Carthagians wiped out 4 of my cities, and I was too disgusted (and frustrated) to continue.

Good job man, maybe I'll try it again sometime.

I got really lucky with the map. In addition to the terrain, I got a bunch of goody huts with mostly units and no barbs, so I was able to wipe out the greeks when they only had one city (it dissolved when I took it) and the Zulus when they only had 3 cities (only the last survived). You basically have to direct all your forces on that one city and take it out, then move on. Once I actually captured a city without it disappearing (Zimbabwe) I just cranked out Legions and Elephants and tried to be the agressor most of the time(attack 4 instead of defense 2 or 1) unless I had a legion in good defensive terrain.

Sometimes I could get a defensive unit on a hill next to the enemy, then put an offensive unit a square or so away to pin the enemy with ZOC, then I would use my Dip to get other units around them to where I wanted to go.

------------------
DEATH awaits you all...with nasty, big, pointy teeth.

 

[Magnus]

I think running a Barbarian Empire on permanent 'Anarchy' level government is justifiable, the Barbarians being the antithesis of civilization and all.

 

[Mao Tse Tung]

i treid this once.i put anarchy everytime i was ready to build a gov.i had it on cheat mode.i let me settler go around and find units in huts.then i put the settler to sleep in a romote part.then when i discoverd a city in a hut i deleted it.id go on destroying other civs like this.i stopped around 120 ad

 

[Jandor]

why dosnt anyone play proper barbarians
its easy but you need cheat mode on
all you do is create a barbarian unit (only if one dosnt already exist) and then reveal map ,barbarian, then waste all your goes and you then move the barbarian units around
red flag and everything

 

[greenie]

I'm playing this on Deity and here are my self imposed rules. Feel free to critque them:

1. I put on cheat mode to allow me to change to a government only one at the start - Fundamentlaism, isnt that what Barbar's are all about ?

2. No settler establishment of cities, except for your capital.
3. I allow cities to be defended. Barbar's usually have units there.
4. The ONLY improvement I allow to build are Barracks. After all, why can't we humans play as better Barbar's?
5. I only sell captured improvements that I want to sell. Hell, under Fundy, if I take a Colsseuem, noone's gonna make me sell it.

Those are some of the rules, that makes a good game for me anyways

------------------
- Greenie

" Let us take by
cunning what we would
take by force"

 

[Ren]

sounds interesting, I should try it

 

[Achinz]

Originally posted by Jandor
why dosnt anyone play proper barbarians
its easy but you need cheat mode on
all you do is create a barbarian unit (only if one dosnt already exist) and then reveal map ,barbarian, then waste all your goes and you then move the barbarian units around
red flag and everything

I recall an OCC game designed by Tom which allowed you to play both your civ and as Barbarians in a similar way - it was in the Apolyton Civ2 strategy forum.

 

[Sorivar]

Except I built no cities.

Once you build 1 city, huts can give you something nasty. Until then they will always give you something beneficial.

I don't build a cities and I explore my Large(which makes it fun) land mass. I get a huge mercenary army together for absolutely no support cost. I then waited for someone to "discover" me. I let them land build a city then I attack.

Then I build boats and invade their territory.

No way I was going to win... but it was fun.

 

[Philosopher12]

I didin't build any cities or improvments or wonders, but I did allow my cities to be defended.

 

[Ren]

There is a way to actually become the Barbarians: Put on cheat mode --, find an ai, put a couple of barbarian units right next to one of their cities andtake all the defence units from the city (by becoming them) Now you end the turn and the barb captures the city. You know select reveal map and Barbarians. Badda bing badda boom, you are the barbarians! It sucks though, you cant research any techs