My suggestion

[luca 83]

believe that a society, a civilization should not only create a society on continental empires but also a society with a more limited civilization. Like Switzerland, or Luxembourg, small but of great influence in economic terms. Even smaller companies such as Caribbean countries or Madagascar would be interesting with a more complex internal system, instead civ always tends to create colossal empires that are not small or medium-sized states.

 

[Naokaukodem]

Maybe some "city-States" could be named after countries, like Belgium, Luxembourg, Switzerlrand or Netherlands, and maybe why not also France or any european country ? That way, the "city-State" concept would evolve and one goal if you are one of them would be to unite with other c-S of the region, like Europe or inside Europe, like Germany and Italy. The 100$ question being : who's controlling what ?*

C-S could also be a form of civilization among many others, like hunter-gatherers, pastoralists, expansionnists, barbarians, etc. with traits like "conservator". (i.e. want to keep being a c-S)

*= a fun thing could be to see millenary leaders to wander in such blob civs institutions to keep playing and have a chance to rule again.

 

[luca 83]

Maybe some "city-States" could be named after countries, like Belgium, Luxembourg, Switzerlrand or Netherlands, and maybe why not also France or any european country ? That way, the "city-State" concept would evolve and one goal if you are one of them would be to unite with other c-S of the region, like Europe or inside Europe, like Germany and Italy. The 100$ question being : who's controlling what ?*

C-S could also be a form of civilization among many others, like hunter-gatherers, pastoralists, expansionnists, barbarians, etc. with traits like "conservator". (i.e. want to keep being a c-S)

*= a fun thing could be to see millenary leaders to wander in such blob civs institutions to keep playing and have a chance to rule again.

Even if the player states aren't huge, you should be able to. Having strong economic and political factors to influence other nations and not be invaded and maybe even win the game. Otherwise in the game a state like Switzerland for example would have already been invaded with the current rules, even Belgium. Or Albania. For city-states. They should be able to found other cities and merg

 

[Saxo Grammaticus]

I would like for small and medium powers to have a place in Civilization and would even go so far as saying that sovereignty as represented in Civ VI protects any civilization down to its last city and hence could accommodate smaller factions. That said, tactics prove a real problem, as easily seen in TSL scenarios like Portugal vs. Spain. The two are at odds from the beginning due to settling too close to one another. The land grab usually (but not always) leaves Spain with the bulk of Iberia. Even after colonizing Africa/the Americas, Portugal has several unfavorable asymmetries. With fewer cities, Portugal can see its progress stagnate and is limited in how many units it can produce per turn. What's more, compared to Spain it has a dreadful ratio of space where it can field its army. A human player ought to be able to easily clear the forces of a smaller power like the Dutch, Portuguese, or Scottish.

More generally, tall builds have faced the same challenge in unit production since Civ IV. Even if a few cities have an edge in production and promotions, they will likely be outpaced by a wide strategy that can simply produce more units per turn. The asymmetric design for Portugal does suggest more civilizations could have abilities drawing on the international community rather than traditional wide strategies. Unfortunately, most if not all countries in the world regardless of their current state have been invaded, Switzerland by Napoleon and Belgium in the two World Wars.

What in your opinion would we gain by including small and medium powers?

 

[BuchiTaton]

I would like to gain multiple queue for units and buildings per city when you cities have huge yields. This would add for a more balanced tall vs wide gameplay.
Some of the things I want the most is more significative gameplay related to "minor civs" (barbarian clans and city states), but at the same time I prefer consistency being playable only civs that historicaly were imperialistic powers.
Would love to interact with a well done Swiss city state with better diplomacy, more flavor and provide uniques (units, techs, resouces, buidings, etc), saving a playable slot for an actual imperialistic power.

 

[Saxo Grammaticus]

Civ VI helped with the 1 unit per turn per city cap by having encampments and holy sites allow for printing two units per turn, but Humankind really got the production queue right in this regard. Instead of overflow and a cap on how many items/units can be produced per turn, it allows large production yields to produce as many units as can fit into an army as well as any other districts or infrastructure industry can cover. Lifting the production cap could definitely benefit tall play in Civilization.

 

[luca 83]

I would like to gain multiple queue for units and buildings per city when you cities have huge yields. This would add for a more balanced tall vs wide gameplay.
Some of the things I want the most is more significative gameplay related to "minor civs" (barbarian clans and city states), but at the same time I prefer consistency being playable only civs that historicaly were imperialistic powers.
Would love to interact with a well done Swiss city state with better diplomacy, more flavor and provide uniques (units, techs, resouces, buidings, etc), saving a playable slot for an actual imperialistic power.

don't think a global civilization is necessarily a good thing. States like Luxembourg, Lichenstein .. Switzerland., Vatican, were small but very rich and influential, states like the Hanseatic League, the Teutonine knights. Florence. The Italian maritime republics are the medieval version of these states

 

[BuchiTaton]

We already got Venice in CIV5 as the playable city state, still didnt get another like it in CIV6.
Switzerland have a good chance to be in CIV, anyway despite be small Switzerland would not be a "playable city state", if is added as a main civ would be closer to others small civs like Korea.
Meanwhile things like Liechenstein that are not even in EU4 would be a bad joke to be playable.

 

[luca 83]

We already got Venice in CIV5 as the playable city state, still didnt get another like it in CIV6.
Switzerland have a good chance to be in CIV, anyway despite be small Switzerland would not be a "playable city state", if is added as a main civ would be closer to others small civs like Korea.
Meanwhile things like Liechenstein that are not even in EU4 would be a bad joke to be playable.

specifically thought that a civilization that is not City State can survive even if the civilization is not huge, through. Bonus and economic power political prestige. Ultimately, could the formation of continental mega states be avoided?

 

[BuchiTaton]

More main and minor civs surviving until end game, more "wide vs tall" ballance and mechanics to break apart big blob empires would help a lot for a more interesting gameplay. But that dont mean or need to add as playable micro states.

Historical powers with small homeland like Netherland, Portugal or Venice had oversea empires. The Teutonic Order was trying to expand and did not get more land because they have rivals all around, same did the Papal States, if you are powerfull you try to expand. Even after decolonization world powers project their influence to put puppet goverments wherever they can.

History is full of small countries that achieved to defeat bigger empires but be defensive do not make you "win at the end of the game". USA is now the closer of a real game winner and it is not by being a "small tall" nation. This is why more and better minor civ would add for a more interesting gameplay as allies, clients, vassals, protectorates and conquest objetives but are awfull material as world powers.

 

[Naokaukodem]

The British wanted to "secure" the Netherlands and/or Belgium (I don't know exactly) for a purpose that escape myself, probably strategic. They actively defended them and wanted them to remain what they were. (Buffer state ? Trade partners ? Colonialist allies ?)

Sovereignty is another grand scale topic, even christian : the people have the rights to dispose of themselves and live as they want (i.e. with their own rules to respect). (provided they respect the god rules)
So defining "people" is key here, I guess in the future (if we achieve to go there) in a perfect world, referendums would spawn (only if demanded) to determine how the people of each region of each country feel, with maybe great populations migrations at the end (because the votes are never "100% this", rather 51% this and 49% that, at least in modern democracy in Presidents elections, but IMHO this just means that they don't care and don't have a clue who to vote for, which might not be the case concerning people's people belonging feeling) Because belonging to a people is, at the end, just a matter of internal feeling.

 

[luca 83]

I would like for small and medium powers to have a place in Civilization and would even go so far as saying that sovereignty as represented in Civ VI protects any civilization down to its last city and hence could accommodate smaller factions. That said, tactics prove a real problem, as easily seen in TSL scenarios like Portugal vs. Spain. The two are at odds from the beginning due to settling too close to one another. The land grab usually (but not always) leaves Spain with the bulk of Iberia. Even after colonizing Africa/the Americas, Portugal has several unfavorable asymmetries. With fewer cities, Portugal can see its progress stagnate and is limited in how many units it can produce per turn. What's more, compared to Spain it has a dreadful ratio of space where it can field its army. A human player ought to be able to easily clear the forces of a smaller power like the Dutch, Portuguese, or Scottish.

More generally, tall builds have faced the same challenge in unit production since Civ IV. Even if a few cities have an edge in production and promotions, they will likely be outpaced by a wide strategy that can simply produce more units per turn. The asymmetric design for Portugal does suggest more civilizations could have abilities drawing on the international community rather than traditional wide strategies. Unfortunately, most if not all countries in the world regardless of their current state have been invaded, Switzerland by Napoleon and Belgium in the two World Wars.

What in your opinion would we gain by including small and medium powers?

We must keep. I realize that civilizations can collapse on their own from the inside like. I Roman Empire or Soviet Russia. More internal politics and dynamics should be put in place to create more internal events: civil wars. Religious, dynastic disputes financial crises etch

 

[HorseshoeHermit]

We must keep. I realize that civilizations can collapse on their own from the inside like. I Roman Empire or Soviet Russia. More internal politics and dynamics should be put in place to create more internal events: civil wars. Religious, dynastic disputes financial crises etch

Yes, but I really really super mega do not want those internals to be event based. Some preloaded cache of crisis triggers would be awful; if they are narrative references to this and that duchy or baron's daughter or heretic on the street or whatever, I'll be unable to play.
I hope that each stage of the game has a characteristic form of empire instability, something that you address in order to expand, and the new phase of gameplay adds additional instabilities, which you must satisfy all of. Perhaps some are designed to be unavoidable in triggering a decay or crisis event (like in Old World, you cannot possibly prevent the discontent meter from filling up a few times at start of game), but all the meters are -existential- threats to the civilization. When you don't manage them, the age collapses, and your people cease to be.

 

[luca 83]

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For instance :. It makes no sense to pass from one government to another decided by the player himself, there must be revolutionary factors to pass from one government to another, even political ones. Similar for the ages: an eternal Roman empire with slavery and gunpowder and steam energy and meaningless civilization is different from antiquity to the Middle Ages. I do not think it is a solution like in humankind, where you can pass from the Egyptian civilization to the German one but also in this

 

[BuchiTaton]

Have population units with their parameters (culture, social class, religion) related to every building/yield (basically everything have a kind of specialist) would be the best way to abstract the society of your empire and interact with them for a more clear and justified force of change.

 

[Patine]

Maybe some "city-States" could be named after countries, like Belgium, Luxembourg, Switzerlrand or Netherlands

and maybe why not also France or any european country ?

I don't really think France, or certain other European countries, are directly comparable in this scheme or idea to the ones listed above (save the Netherlands, because of it's overseas expansiionism and trade), and others like them. I don't think the two types of country are at all comparable in this way just because they're European.

 

[luca 83]

the barbarians would have to evolve from nomadic to sedentary, and the city-states found other cities and merge with each other, of course the fundamental in this kind of thing, put off civil wars, and introduce revolutions, set working hours, food, production as in civ call to power

 

[Naokaukodem]

I don't really think France, or certain other European countries, are directly comparable in this scheme or idea to the ones listed above (save the Netherlands, because of it's overseas expansiionism and trade), and others like them. I don't think the two types of country are at all comparable in this way just because they're European.

It's not just because they are european, you could do the same with the 50 USA states too for example. Well it's just a matter of size really... and by the way it's in the perspective to see them evolve, from basically "barbarian" state to more classical civ. For example, if you pick France, you wouldn't even begin with a city, and once you form one it wouldn't been named "Paris" but rather "France", the districts you build around it being the actual "cities". Or if you don't want the map to be cluttered too much with names, your country's name could appear in transparency across your first "city" just it is now with countryside's names (mountains, volcanos, rivers, etc.), just like in a geography lesson map (or other games), and adapt to the shape of the land the more it grows up. I mean, the city model of Civ5 and 6 could well adapt, IMO, to whole countries. Just an idea.

 

[Patine]

It's not just because they are european, you could do the same with the 50 USA states too for example. Well it's just a matter of size really... and by the way it's in the perspective to see them evolve, from basically "barbarian" state to more classical civ. For example, if you pick France, you wouldn't even begin with a city, and once you form one it wouldn't been named "Paris" but rather "France", the districts you build around it being the actual "cities". Or if you don't want the map to be cluttered too much with names, your country's name could appear in transparency across your first "city" just it is now with countryside's names (mountains, volcanos, rivers, etc.), just like in a geography lesson map (or other games), and adapt to the shape of the land the more it grows up. I mean, the city model of Civ5 and 6 could well adapt, IMO, to whole countries. Just an idea.

But the Civilization series isn't SimCity. I'm not sure I see the point of such artificial limits in a Civilization iteration. I mean, there have been, "one-city challenges," on this site, and back on Apolyton, but that's almost like a form of ironman game - not a standard playmode. I don't really see much horizon for such a game, especially if it's a nation like France so inexplicably hamstringed, which doesn't really go with being France...

 

[Naokaukodem]

Keep in mind that those are just ideas, ideally completed by yourself or another folk. I could see "territory grab" to replace settlers, and in this new territory you could also build districts. I don't know how would the UI be however.
Just what I wanna suggest, is that "type of factions" as we know them from now on could be a little more porosive and indistinguishable from one step to the next. I mean... you could "switch" from one to another at least, and it may not even be so "visible" on the map or in term of gameplay, because firstable you could incarnate them, which is the main difference with old Civs.