National College

[rawrtrav]

I've seen a lot of people with varying opinions on when the ideal time to build the National College is.


So first off, what is the actual ideal time to build it? Is it as early as possible, and if so does that mean trying to go for a Pottery-Writing-Calender-GL Slingshot-Philosophy is the best way to go? Or is it better to leave it a little bit later and get things like a granary, worker, shrine, monument, etc set up. I know some people will say that it's all about what civ you're playing and what sort of victory you're going for, but from what I've seen, the first 100 turns or so don't make a difference to what type of victory condition you're going for.

Secondly, I tried earlier today to see what the earliest I could get the NC up by, and I managed to get it up in a size 6 city by turn 51, playing as the Ottomans on an archipelago map. The problem that I had with this is that it meant I was always the tech leader, so I felt like I had to build wonders just because I could, so by turn 120 I had 4 cities in total with GL, NC, ToA, HG, Colossus and Hagia Sophia, but only a granary, shrine and a free monument as non-wonder buildings in my capital. So, what's the earliest you can manage to get a NC up by? It can't be much earlier than turn 51 surely.

 

[joshua43214]

Getting the NC by T51 in a size 6 city is excellent. It means you can just crank out your settlers and not worry about getting rushing out libraries, you can actually play a more relaxed game.

You should restrain yourself on the wonders a bit. It is OK to wonder whore provided you can afford to purchase your infrastructure, the other issue you can crash hard into is not enough workers - so make sure you farm a neighbor for workers until it is impossible to get more.

NC by T90 +/-5 is about ideal on high difficulty where you have to get a settler out to grab territory and you can't get the GL. You will be able to get all the basics down in that time in your cap easily enough.

Granary if you have wheat/deer/banana is really important. early shrine for a pantheon is important depending on difficulty and dirt.

 

[joncnunn]

Turn 51 is very good with NC; only achievable on difficulty levels in which you can build GL.

Turn 90 is on the late side to aim for. The old rule of thumb for G&K was aim for turn 70ish, but in BNW where early gold is hard to come by it often slips into the 80s.

 

[RStark]

If you have a nice capital for Petra (6+ desert hills and oasis), I advise to beeline Currency (which enables construction of Petra I guess) before going to Philosophy.

Playing as Korea, I also think that it's worth to delay NC a bit in order to settle 2 or 3 more cities and rush libraries there.

 

[klaskeren]

1 city turn 50-65, 2-3 cities, turn 70-80, 4 cities 80-85

those are some pretty good benchmarks i think

 

[Pazz56]

On immortal I usually found 1 or 2 cities in addition to the capital and then go for national college. On most of the pangea maps I've been playing lately there are 1 or 2 good city locations I want to claim before the AI gets there. I'd feel anxious waiting until after I've built the national college in my capital before expanding to get these sites. You can usually rush buy a library in the poorest production city if you want, but this comes at the expense of being able to upgrade your archers into composite bows. So you need to weight up the need to be able to defend yourself versus getting an extra library quickly.

After teching the necessary early techs I head for construction, for composite bows, then writing, then philosophy. The timing of getting to philosophy seems to line up pretty well with getting a library up and runnning in your third city.

I usually get 3 cities & the national college around turn 90.

Maybe it's better to just get 2 cities and then the national college, I'm sure it would be much faster. It really depends on how many cities you need to secure before the AI gets there, and which sites you feel will be safe until after the NC. On immortal you have to claim your land pretty quickly!

 

[phillipwyllie]

I would say build the NC asap, unless there is more pressing issues at hand.

 

[JeSuisNapoleon]

NC always as early as you can. Doesnt matter what policies you enact iether, NC is always important.

The fact that your a tech leader early and can then pick whichever wonders you feel like building is a huge advantage, its essentially why this is so important.

you don't need to build wonders, you could build other things. Like armies. Or infrastructure that will put you ahead in every other category (culture, gold, etc).

a few wonder are good though. which ones is up to you

There might be a special exception for Assyria : they don't need or really want to be the tech leader. They want to conquer the tech leader at least, i find its more fun that way.

 

[budweiser]

Korea that builds Oracle b4 NC will finish Tradition super fast.

Which leads to faster UU, which leads to more land if you dare. They call him Sejong THE GREAT for a reason.

 

[Memoryjar]

Korea that builds Oracle b4 NC will finish Tradition super fast.

Which leads to faster UU, which leads to more land if you dare. They call him Sejong THE GREAT for a reason.

I don't understand how UU leads to more land. Fight neighboors ?

 

[mice]

Rather than which turn my question is at which city number is optimal (Immortal/Emperor)

One, two or three ?

 

[budweiser]

Rather than which turn my question is at which city number is optimal (Immortal/Emperor)

One, two or three ?

I like one so I don't have to worry about a second library. But if I do make the Oracle first it gives more time to get the second library and sometime you just naturally have enough cash, so it depends.

 

[Browd]

I don't understand how UU leads to more land. Fight neighboors ?

Yes -- note "if you dare" at the end of his comment.

 

[Memoryjar]

Thanks. I'm not fluent in English, so if I have a doubt, I ask.

 

[robincox]

I have had nc built by turn 33. This on emperor difficulty with the iroquis. Iroquis gets alot of forest to chop down for gl to slingshot to philosophy, then chop down more trees to finish nc fast.

 

[rawrtrav]

I have had nc built by turn 33. This on emperor difficulty with the iroquis. Iroquis gets alot of forest to chop down for gl to slingshot to philosophy, then chop down more trees to finish nc fast.

So you managed to average 6 bpt in the first 30 turns? How did you manage that exactly? Plus, you'd have only been able to get one worker out in that time, so building the NC would still take at least 10 turns at that point, so it'd be closer to 7 bpt, with little to no growth because you'd be focusing on production.


Seems highly unlikely to me...

 

[robincox]

So you managed to average 6 bpt in the first 30 turns? How did you manage that exactly? Plus, you'd have only been able to get one worker out in that time, so building the NC would still take at least 10 turns at that point, so it'd be closer to 7 bpt, with little to no growth because you'd be focusing on production.


Seems highly unlikely to me...

Sorry, I was playing quick speed. Should have mentioned that.

 

[Ninakoru]

Sorry, I was playing quick speed. Should have mentioned that.

Ahh... OK! Turn 50 GL -> NC are more comon, a pretty solid science strategy for Emperor-, but you must focus on expansion and infrastructure later.

 

[robincox]

Ahh... OK! Turn 50 GL -> NC are more comon, a pretty solid science strategy for Emperor-, but you must focus on expansion and infrastructure later.

Yupp, thats my kinda play. I don't want to wait all that time to build libraries in a couple of cities. But the infrastructure part is good because i have 2 workers up quickly.

 

[rawrtrav]

Sorry, I was playing quick speed. Should have mentioned that.

Ahhh okay, that seems more realistic!

Not sure what the scale is down to Quick from Normal speed, but I'm guessing that'd be the equivalent of like turn 45 - 50.