National Heroes - Nation Specific Unique Units acquired by Python Events [ACCEPTED]

Would you like "National Heroes" as new feature?

  • It sounds like way too much effort for way too little gameplay. (No)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    13

raystuttgart

Civ4Col Modder
Joined
Jan 24, 2011
Messages
9,135
Location
Stuttgart, Germany
This concept is currently just brainstorming ... still I feel it might bring some flavour to the game.
It is kind of inspired by this concept here: Story Telling with Unique Units Using Python events

National Heroes
(Nation specific Unique Units)

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Let me try to explain what this is all about:

One thing I e.g. always liked in startegy games was the Hero Units. (e.g. Endless Legend, Age of Wonders, Warcraft 3 ...)
Such hero Units e.g. also exist in other Civ4BTS mods like "Fall from Heaven 2" or "Middle Earth Mod".

To simplify, it is simply an absolutely unique nation specific Unit that has a lot of "lore" attached.

And honestly, if we look into the actual history of the Colonization of the real world, there is lots of history and "lore" to be found.

In fact we would not even necessarily have to stick to actual history but even tell fictional known stories like e.g. the "Last Mohawk".
There are lots of very known characters from books about the 15th to 18th century around that we could use.

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So how should this work ?

1)
Basically each Colonial Civ gets exactly 2 (or maybe even 3) nation specific events with multiple conditions to be fulfilled.
(E.g. Have 3 Cities and have 2 Native Mercenaries and have 1000 Gold and be at War.)

2) If those conditions are fulfilled a Python-Event will trigger and then tell the story of a Hero in its pop-up.
(It is supposed to be an atmospheric short story in about 3 paragraphs and in the end you acquire the Hero - to close you just confirm.)

3) The heroes should really be Nation specific and historically correct (or at least immersive e.g. known from literature / books / movies).
(Ideally each Hero should really be unique and also offer very different gameplay - not necessarilly be limited to Combat Units only.)

4) Once acquired, these Hero Units may later on in the game trigger additional Unit specific story Events.
(Meaning that they could only be triggered if that Unit is in your possession - additional to other conditions.)

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Other:

5)
In Colopedia these Units would be flagged as "Hero Unit" and "can only be aquired by Event"
(So the player also understands that he does not get the Unit by other means)

6) Mouse over in the Game would also flag the Unit as "Hero Unit".
(To show that it is something special and not a common Unit.)

7) Otherwise all game mechanics apply to them like their normal counter parts.
(So a combat Hero could get destroyed in Combat, a non-combat Hero could get captured ...)

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I know that a lot of the historic "heroes" are already actually used as Founding Fathers, but there should still be enough known "heroes" around for this feature.
Also I am convinced that we should also still find enough Unique graphics to create 2 nation specific heroes for each of our Colonial nations.

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So e.g. heroes could be:

- a unique and strong Native Warrior / Conquistador / Militia / Line Infanterist / Ranger ... (e.g. 50% stronger than normal or other unique aspects)
- a unique Scout / Missionary / Native Trader / Preacher / Carpenter / Hunter / Slave Master ... with explicitly strong Bonus (e.g. 100% higher than normal)
- a unique Commanding Ship of the Fleet that has in some way special attributes (e.g. faster and stronger)
- a unique Pirate Ship that is that has in some way special attributes (e.g. stronger and more cargo space)
- a unique Treasure Galleon that is extremely strong (but maybe also a bit slower than normal)
...

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So this is not necessarily about the "feature mechanics" itself. The feature is not meant to "unbalance" anything on the long run.
(However achieving to trigger such events and getting these game wide Unique Units in early game might infact really have an impact.)

It is still more about telling an atmospheric and interesting story and giving the player some special Units to "collect".
(Also it would be kind of fun to figure out in game how to trigger the events of those Hero Units.)

Last but not least this may be an incentive to sometimes play with other Nations just to also get these unique Hero Units and their Events.
(Today in 9 out of 10 games I just play England, because for me there is little incentive to play any other Nation.)

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Comment on Effort:

Well it needs some concept work to find suitable Hero Units for each Nation. But as I said, there should be a lot of stories around to tell.
Depending on what we chose there, we would also need to find graphics - otherwise we could also select Heroes by the graphics we find / already have.
Then for each Hero Unit we would have to implement one "Hero Receive Event" at least - if motivated maybe also a "Follow Up Event".

So let us say we want 2 Heroes for each Nation:
  • 16 Unit graphics need to be found / created : one week to find the graphics
  • 16 Units need to be configured in the game : one week to configure the Units
  • 16 immersive short stories need to be written : 2 weeks to write all the short stories
  • 16 Hero Receive Events need to be configured : 2 weeks to configure all the Hero Receive Events
  • 16 Hero Follow Up Events need to be configured : 2 weeks to configure all the Hero Receive Events
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Comment on Complexity and Risk:

Technically this is extremely simple and does not require a programmer for most of it.
(It is basically mostly concept and then XML work using existing capabilities of the mod.)

At most a programmer may be needed to program a specific trigger check in Python for an Event - which is still a piece of cake for a programmer.
(e.g. something like the Unit is standing on Plot with Improvement X and there is Diplomacy Condition Y with Nation Z.)

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Comment on Fun and Flavour:

I imagine these "nation specific Heroes" to add some fun to the mod, increasing flavour, immersion and atmosphere.
It is more about the story these Events would tell than the actual impact of the Units on the game.

Also it would add even more replayability to the game by making the nations more diverse and unique.
e.g One Nation could get a Hero Unit for Combat the other Nation a unique Ship and the next Nation a Preacher with 200% Crosses Bonus.

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General Comments:

Well, it is an old idea I had for quite long already, so I thought I might present it to you guys.
It is technically easy to implement, but it is a lot of effort to do research, write stories and configure all the Units and Events.

Thus honestly this is one of the "very low priority concepts" on my list. :dunno:
(Especially if I would have to do all the research and story writing myself which the concept would require.)

But if community would support with this and prepare the concept, e.g. find suitable "Heros" with atmospheric strories it would be a different story.
Then I would gladly implement all the XML setup necessary for the Unit Configuration and the Events. (Also if necessary code Python logic.)

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Well, it is an idea. :dunno:
Looking for feedback.
 
Last edited:

Mr. ZorG

WTP team member
Joined
Feb 13, 2020
Messages
488
Location
Russia, Vladimir
all the characters I suggested were transformed into the Founding Fathers. however, if this concept is accepted, I will try to find a few more people from that era that could be included in our mod.
 

ArchdukeLiet

Chieftain
Joined
Oct 19, 2022
Messages
41
Nice idea to add even more flavour to the game.

I do understand what Mr. Zorg means. Many people who could be used as a hero are a founding father already. Others perhaps are also in the list as a great general or great admiral.
--> If they are present as a great general or great admiral we can remove then from that list, to avoid double characters in the game.

Nonetheless, probably there are more and I can look into people from the Netherlands.
 

Schmiddie

Emperor
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Messages
1,628
Location
Germany
I would also love to see these nation-specific units emphasize the (historical) character of a nation - to make the game experience a bit more different/unique for each nation.
Regardless of the fact that all European nations viewed the natives as savages who needed to be brought closer to the Christian God in order to redeem them...there were differences in implementation, always coupled with trade and settlement interests. These unique entities should be guided by this.

Example:
- France: was more concerned with cooperation with the natives than war (at least in the long term strategy) and focused on trade, missionary work and cooperation. => persons could be e.g. a special missionary and a trapper
- England: colonization and territorial expansion were more pronounced than in France => persons could be a politician and a pilgrim father or pirate
- Spain: Clearly military conquest; person could be a conquistador and a missionary or an early warship
- Holland: Holland is associated with trade. A special trader and possibly the counterpart - a pirate I could well imagine here.
With the smaller nations Denmark, Sweden and Portugal as well as Russia I would orient myself likewise at the history.
- Denmark: In the West Indies, sugar cane was essentially cultivated (with slaves). Therefore this would be an approach
- Sweden: expansion, shipping
- Portugal: exploration, trade (especially with exotic goods)
- Russia: fur trade, trappers

The graphics for this should be able to be made. For most of them I already have graphics in my head or good ideas for them. It takes a little time, of course, but basically doable. Something for the future.
 
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