National Wonders...only two per city?

H

Helmling

Philosopher King
Joined
May 2, 2004
Messages
1,680
Ok, THAT just sucks. I know, I know...more complaining before the game actually comes out, but bear with me. This reminds me of hearing about the limitations on how much players could do that we heard in advance of MOO3. And you know how that one turned out.

My playstyle is wonder-heavy. I stack my capital like you cannot believe (current Civ3 game, it has: Collosus, Great Library, Mausaleum, Sun Tsu's, Sistine, Newton's, Globe, Copernicus, Universal Suffrage, Theory of Evolution and is building Hoover Dam now). I'm afraid there may also be a limit of how many regular wonders you can build in a city too, since I suspect this limitation has nothing to do with gameplay balance and everything to do with how many 3D wonders can fit in a city.

That's looks over substance, and it sucks!
 
I respectfully disagree Helmling,
Since they got rid of the wonder cascade, it also makes sense that one cannot have a "super city" that has no peer thoughout real history. I think it will add another level of strategy to the build queue. :p
 
wonder cascade is when you build, build wonders. Repitivly (esp. in 1 city). You should go to war academy and read article about 4 rules of wonder addiction.
 
How annoying. I love building a super city. It's my primary goal when I play, actually. To make my capital--named for my wife--a shining jewel of a city envied by all the world. Now why would they want to take that away?
 
Although I agree that there must be some limit on the number of buildings that can be placed within one city (there is only so much room in the 3D city on the map), I think there might be a gameplay reason for this. They only mentioned a limit for the National Wonders and not for the Great Wonders

Maybe they made a difference between the two, where the Great Wonders typically give national bonusses and the National Wonders city specific bonusses (strange name if a National Wonder is often city specific). In that case, the designers might have limited the amount of National Wonders per city for game balance reasons. Otherwise the bonusses might become too large. I can't think of any different gameplay-based explanation.

I am a little bit worried about the number of buildings that can be added to the game through modding as there is a limited amount of space in the 3D cities on the map. I hope it is possible to add buildings without a 3D representation in the city.
 
Ok, I read it...boring!

I'm not some newbie here. Hogging all the wonders on Emperor is quite a challenge, thank you very much.

I play different types of games and I can handle the nuances just fine. Playing for conquest is just too easy. I prefer the challenges of perfectionist cultural domination.

You guys telling me that Civ 4 blows my favorite play style out of the water? What's the limit on Great Wonders?
 
spankey said:
I respectfully disagree Helmling,
Since they got rid of the wonder cascade, it also makes sense that one cannot have a "super city" that has no peer thoughout real history. I think it will add another level of strategy to the build queue. :p
Click to expand...
If anything, removing the wonder cascade is why the 2 per city limit seems pointless. They already made it realistically harder to stack a city with every wonder, there is no need for an artificial and gamey limit.
 
Helmling said:
How did they do that? How did they "remove" the wonder cascade?
Click to expand...
When someone else completes a wonder you were also working on, now all the production on that wonder is completely wasted instead of before where you could use that previous work and transfer it to a new big-ticket project.
 
PriestOfDiscord said:
When someone else completes a wonder you were also working on, now all the production on that wonder is completely wasted instead of before where you could use that previous work and transfer it to a new big-ticket project.
Click to expand...

Oh, THAT. The other guy made it sound like he was just talking about putting lots of wonders in one city. Gosh, I hardly ever do that anyway. Like in the game I'm playing now (see above for the wonders I've stacked in my capital) I think I only did that a little right before I got Theology. Like maybe 6 turns worth, no biggey.

Now, I did it for my other cities...used a Palace to pre-build for Magellan and Leonardo to pre-build for Smith's. But it's hardly crucial for my wonder-rific strategy.

I like the new rules for production. It was pretty silly that my work on a cathedral could suddenly transform into a Knight when needed. Likewise, I like the idea of "stored" production, that won't last forever. Those are good moves by the design team for sure. But if they tell me I can only put in 4 wonders or something, I'm going to flip out.

We got this info from a screenshot...has anyone seen a "you just built a Great Wonder" screenshot yet?
 
Respectfully, as Roland has pointed out, the limit is on National Wonders-not Great Wonders. All the Wonders you mention, Helmling, are not even covered by this limit on National Wonders-because they are all Great Wonders (Great Library, Mausoleum etc).
Even were this limit on National Wonders not imposed, I doubt smart players would choose to build lots of National Wonders in the one city. Why? Because given the greater emphasis on city specialization, coupled with the fact that National Wonders will tend to be 'City Boosters' (i.e. +100% culture, +100% science, +100% production), will mean that the best tactic will probably be to place your National Wonders on the basis of where they will magnify existing specialization benefits. Why, given these facts, they have chosen to limit it to 2 per city is beyond me, however.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.
 
That's my point, exactly, Aussie. The only reason I can think of for them to impose such an arbitrary limit is because of the graphic limitations. If THAT is the case, then there will probably be a similar limit on Great Wonders.
 
Aussie_Lurker said:
Even were this limit on National Wonders not imposed, I doubt smart players would choose to build lots of National Wonders in the one city. Why? Because given the greater emphasis on city specialization, coupled with the fact that National Wonders will tend to be 'City Boosters' (i.e. +100% culture, +100% science, +100% production), will mean that the best tactic will probably be to place your National Wonders on the basis of where they will magnify existing specialization benefits. Why, given these facts, they have chosen to limit it to 2 per city is beyond me, however.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.
Click to expand...
But the choice should be up to the player - let me decide if I want to be smart or dumb... ;) ...or imposed by game balance requirements,... not a limited imposed arbitrarily by graphics requirements if true.

Gameplay over graphics always when strategies are involved... otherwise this is just a TBS game trying to compete with RTS eye candy; not a game truly pushing the envelope.
 
So you don't lose them all if you lose the city for some reason.
 
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