Natures Revolt
- Thread starter Sureshot
- Start date
Sorry I cannot answer your question, Sureshot, but I have another question on the same topic I thought I would put here if you don't mind.
I believe someone said there is a finite number of barbs that can appear on a map based on size at any given time. For example, let's say there can be 150 barb units on a huge map.
I've been playing on a huge map, marathon setting, and now I am at about yr. 1400. I have not seen ANY animals in, oh, the last 500 turns or so.
What would happen if I built Nature's Revolt now?
Animals would appear of course, but would they replace some of the barb units? Might you now have 120 barb units and 30 animal units on the map?
Do you see what I am getting at here?
I am now having barb Tier IV units like Lizardman Druids and Beastmasters appear. They are somewhat of a challenge as they re-spawn quickly and often attack in groups of 2-3.
It would be an excellent strategy to replace the Tier IV barb units with the likes of lions, wolves, and panthers by building Nature's Revolt in the later game with raging barbs, few civs left and lots of open territory. The bonus would be capturing the animals for culture, etc.
Is this the way the barb 'cap' works and is it a good strategy?
Thanks
I believe someone said there is a finite number of barbs that can appear on a map based on size at any given time. For example, let's say there can be 150 barb units on a huge map.
I've been playing on a huge map, marathon setting, and now I am at about yr. 1400. I have not seen ANY animals in, oh, the last 500 turns or so.
What would happen if I built Nature's Revolt now?
Animals would appear of course, but would they replace some of the barb units? Might you now have 120 barb units and 30 animal units on the map?
Do you see what I am getting at here?
I am now having barb Tier IV units like Lizardman Druids and Beastmasters appear. They are somewhat of a challenge as they re-spawn quickly and often attack in groups of 2-3.
It would be an excellent strategy to replace the Tier IV barb units with the likes of lions, wolves, and panthers by building Nature's Revolt in the later game with raging barbs, few civs left and lots of open territory. The bonus would be capturing the animals for culture, etc.
Is this the way the barb 'cap' works and is it a good strategy?
Thanks
wilboman
Hibernorse Frost Giant
Nature's revolt replaces, AFAIK, all barbs with animals of varying types, depending on strength and other factors. So you'd have an animal hunting bonanza on your hands if you built it now.
Sto
Should i code today ...
I just begin to deal with SDK ... So i'm not sure that is enough ,you can try to change CvUnit::canMoveInto in CvUnit.cpp :
if you remove this test i think that should work , but i never deal with this part of code .
Hope this help , Tcho !
Edit :
- perhaps giving "PROMOTION_COMMANDO" to all barbarian animal units via python is a good shortcut to test that .
- a simple line of improvement can prevent the animals to enter into the border lines with this test ( just after previous test ):
I don't know what happend if an animal walk into a goody hut ? probably the same at the other barbarian units and become the guardian of the goody hut ?
Code:
//FfH: Modify by Kael 04/26/2006
// if (isAnimal())
if (isAnimal() && isBarbarian() && !(isHasPromotion((PromotionTypes)GC.getInfoTypeForString("PROMOTION_COMMANDO"))))
//FfH: End Modify
{
if (pPlot->isOwned())
{
return false;
}if you remove this test i think that should work , but i never deal with this part of code .
Hope this help , Tcho !
Edit :
- perhaps giving "PROMOTION_COMMANDO" to all barbarian animal units via python is a good shortcut to test that .
- a simple line of improvement can prevent the animals to enter into the border lines with this test ( just after previous test ):
Code:
if (pPlot->getImprovementType() != NO_IMPROVEMENT)
{
return false;
}I don't know what happend if an animal walk into a goody hut ? probably the same at the other barbarian units and become the guardian of the goody hut ?
Is this something new?
I know in the past I have built Nature's Revolt, and I found (at Monarch level) there were still barbs and I don't recall any of the animals that did appear having any promotions.
I started a new game today, but will test this when Nature's revolt is available as I am playing with raging barbs.
Anybody else try this?
Silverkiss
NekoChan
Its like this as far as I can remenber...
If that is the case, how long does it last?
By building Nature's Revolt you eliminate the barbs from the game???
Wow, that would really be something when you are getting pounded by Tier IV barbs. It would also help you in going out after other civs without having to worry about getting creamed by barbs on the way.
I can't wait to test this...
Bad Player
Deity
When I built Nature's Revolt in a game ages ago it didn't give many animal units. I think barbs in cities were immune and IIRC not all barbs converted.
ChaoticWanderer
Warlord
Barb cities lose barbs but they can still build more so barbs are gone but they dont stay gone
Well, I can finally answer my own question as I was able to built Nature's Revolt. My game is as Sabathiel on at Fantasy Realm huge map at Marathon setting. I am also using the raging barb setting.
I built the wonder around year 1000 and the number of barbs decreased, but did not stop. The animals increased and I was able to re-stock some of the escaped critters from my carnivals.
This went on for about 20 or so turns, but then all hell broke loose:
Just outside one of my cities there appeared three stacks of 8-10 barb units each. Also, this was the first appearance of the stronger barb units: Lizardman Rangers, Lizardman Assassins, and Orc Macemen.
Was that a shock!!
So, yes, you do get a short break from the onslaught of the barb units, and get a few more animals, but that is very short-lived. I am in the yr. 1400 now and the animals have all but vanished. The Tier IV barbs are coming and this is what makes the raging barb game fun!
I built the wonder around year 1000 and the number of barbs decreased, but did not stop. The animals increased and I was able to re-stock some of the escaped critters from my carnivals.
This went on for about 20 or so turns, but then all hell broke loose:
Just outside one of my cities there appeared three stacks of 8-10 barb units each. Also, this was the first appearance of the stronger barb units: Lizardman Rangers, Lizardman Assassins, and Orc Macemen.
Was that a shock!!
So, yes, you do get a short break from the onslaught of the barb units, and get a few more animals, but that is very short-lived. I am in the yr. 1400 now and the animals have all but vanished. The Tier IV barbs are coming and this is what makes the raging barb game fun!
I tested the withdrawal rate of mounted units and discovered the given rate is much lower than the actual rate.
I decided to test what actually happens in a typical game when Nature's Revolt is built.
I was playing the elves on a huge fantasy map at Monarch and Marathon setting. It was the yr. 1725 (of 1801) and there were 6 AI civs left besides mine. I was playing raging barbs and there were Tier IV barbs coming around. I wanted to see if building Nature's Revolt would replace them with animals or at least reduce them.
It really didn't.
Here's what I found:
The turn before Nature's Revolt was built, I opened up the World Builder and counted the barbs. This was really fun on the huge scrolling map.
I counted 93 including 8 Tier IV barbs (2 heavy crossbowmen, 3, lizard beastmasters, and 3 lizard druids).
There were ZERO animals on the map.
The next turn after Nature's Revolt was built, I counted again - more fun.
Here's what I found:
5 Lions
3 Tigers
1 Bear
1 Panther
0 Wolves
0 Spiders
85 barbs
Now, some barbs may have been killed and not yet spawned, but you kinda get the idea from this count that Nature's Revolt doesn't do much. Yes, maybe more animals might have been spawned later, but I sure didn't see many.
So, in conclusion, my strategy of trying to replace barb lizard beastmasters with lions is not a good one.
I was able to capture 2 lions though. I was surprised when my Beastmaster managed to kill, and not capture, a panther.
I decided to test what actually happens in a typical game when Nature's Revolt is built.
I was playing the elves on a huge fantasy map at Monarch and Marathon setting. It was the yr. 1725 (of 1801) and there were 6 AI civs left besides mine. I was playing raging barbs and there were Tier IV barbs coming around. I wanted to see if building Nature's Revolt would replace them with animals or at least reduce them.
It really didn't.
Here's what I found:
The turn before Nature's Revolt was built, I opened up the World Builder and counted the barbs. This was really fun on the huge scrolling map.
I counted 93 including 8 Tier IV barbs (2 heavy crossbowmen, 3, lizard beastmasters, and 3 lizard druids).
There were ZERO animals on the map.
The next turn after Nature's Revolt was built, I counted again - more fun.
Here's what I found:
5 Lions
3 Tigers
1 Bear
1 Panther
0 Wolves
0 Spiders
85 barbs
Now, some barbs may have been killed and not yet spawned, but you kinda get the idea from this count that Nature's Revolt doesn't do much. Yes, maybe more animals might have been spawned later, but I sure didn't see many.
So, in conclusion, my strategy of trying to replace barb lizard beastmasters with lions is not a good one.
I was able to capture 2 lions though. I was surprised when my Beastmaster managed to kill, and not capture, a panther.
Sureshot
Goddess
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2006
- Messages
- 3,771
Spoiler :
the code for it shows that it only changes earlier units, hence your results.
it might be better to use unit classes instead of specific types, like:
wolf - worker
lion - melee
panther - recon
tiger - cavalry
bear - disciple
spider - arcane
wilboman
Hibernorse Frost Giant
I'm surprised that it is coded so that workers (which the barbs rarely produce) are even in there.
Kael
Deity
The reason I dont have it convert unit classes is that if it was converting late game units into animals it would weaken the barbs, which seemed counter to the rituals purpose. My options were:
1. Leave the late game units as they were.
2. Convert the late game units into animals and weaken the barbs.
3. Convert the late game units into super powerful animals, which I wouldnt mind doing except that allows the player to capture them and get t4 level animals.
Maybe the 3rd options is okay and gives more purpose to the ritual?
1. Leave the late game units as they were.
2. Convert the late game units into animals and weaken the barbs.
3. Convert the late game units into super powerful animals, which I wouldnt mind doing except that allows the player to capture them and get t4 level animals.
Maybe the 3rd options is okay and gives more purpose to the ritual?
I think this is the best option. As things stand, Nature's Revolt hasn't been worth using by the time I get access to it, which doesn't seem good to me. I don't think t4 level animals would be a huge problem, but I'm a relative newcomer, so there may be problems I'm not seeing.
wilboman
Hibernorse Frost Giant
Is there no way to make it so that capturing the animal makes it a weaker equivalent, like worker enslaving?
like if you capture an "enraged bear" and it auto "upgrades" into a
normal 4 str bear?
(animals will keep the previous strength of the unit they were created from untill captured, and will then revert?)
OK, I get the issue on replacing Tier IV barbs with animals, but...
The numbers based on my test just don't add up. When I counted after Nature's Revolt there were not many animals at all. Also, there were plenty of goblins, orc spearmen, orc axemen, worg riders, goblin chariots, etc. None of these had been replaced by animals.
Is it safe to say that when you build Nature's Revolt you can expect a SMALL amount of barb units to be replaced by animals?
The numbers based on my test just don't add up. When I counted after Nature's Revolt there were not many animals at all. Also, there were plenty of goblins, orc spearmen, orc axemen, worg riders, goblin chariots, etc. None of these had been replaced by animals.
Is it safe to say that when you build Nature's Revolt you can expect a SMALL amount of barb units to be replaced by animals?
Similar threads
