Naval Commanders

[kossin]

I'd say our chances for Pyramids are actually pretty good, it's still early in the game and a bunch of AIs won't have that much production thanks to Archipel.

I agree to skip TW, we'll finish TO faster by going straight PH than doing a detour.

exploring wb: it doesn't have to go to JC (btw, we should get a traderoute to his empire as soon as we OB because we know tiles adjacent to his) but could start spotting north or west. In any case, this is better left to a newer city as * Home * has its work cut off for it.

I'll give it a look over in an hour or so.

 

[kossin]

Okay, so we have 3 options to start whipping settlers.

Option 1: grow using 3F2C Lake
-> gets to size 4 in 4 turns from now
-> only 3H/turn on Pyramids
-> 1 t faster settler

Option 2: grow using 1F3H mine next turn and then 1F3H2C quarry
-> gets to size 4 in 5 turns from now (1 more)
-> 2 less commerce right now (another 3 from delayed city #2)
-> 7H/turn on Pyramids but 1H is lose every turn to round down

What do you prefer?

1 t faster second city & 5 more commerce+8~10 food

or

16 more hammers to Pyramids

Without a granary, F:H conversion is pretty bad so my pick would be option 2.

 

[obsolete]

Without a granary, F:H conversion is pretty bad so my pick would be option 2.

I'm happy with that too, we'll get granaries when someone finally researches alphabet...

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

My pick would be option 1 any day... but since Obsolete is hosting... not sure it will be the consensus Beside, being in an island offers more time regarding expansion. So option 2 is fine by me.

Just remove one doubt from my brain: you are going for the Oracle first right (since I don't see a word about it)

even without granary, the F:H ratio is better than regular settler building (though I see your point, we don't wanna do this too often before pottery)

edit (after Obs's post): u wanna wait that long for a granary??? I would research pottery once our early wonder enabling techs are done. double growth is something. But we have some more turns to debate this

 

[obsolete]

I'm never a big fan of granaries, particularly since I have no rush to ever build a cott. There will always be someone willing to trade/gift these techs... And we don't really see any sites that are in an emergency bee-line mode to get either... We're not even expansive so I'm not going to feel TOO GUILTY about it...

I'm happy just to have 6 cities able to build/whip a university when we have education.

When we are not pumping out wonders, capital should be running a massive SE to shoot ahead deep in the tech trees... so I don't see it whipping/regrowing much.

Anyhow, one exception is the oracle.. despite the hefty penalty for whipping wonders, if we can shave off turn by whipping (even if it costs half our pop), I am happy to do so. My rule of thumb is... you can always regrow back pop, but once you miss oracle, it's gone forever and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it.

Anyway, Kossin go make us proud...

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

We do have similar play style (except obviously the wonder thingy): few if any cottages, SE, etc...

it's not about cottages nor expansion (since I agree with you we can delay here) but delaying granary is just throwing food away ( and food is everything!) and trading for pottery... hum I will feel guilty for sure

Anyhow, what is good in SG is that you get to discover new things... let's move on, we will see how it goes. And yeah, go Kossin go!

edit: btw "not too guilty" = "a bit guilty" right? ok I am good then

 

[kossin]

Yes tech is Poly>PH, switch to Oracle as soon as available.

I'll stop once PH is in which is 10~11 turns anyway.

I assume we want to whip a settler in TO, correct?

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Can you regrow three pop (to be able to work mines + marble together with clams) and prepare the build to overflow it when you start the wonder? (I haven't the save around)

edit: this is the only case I think which will actually speeds up the wonder. otherwise whip the Oracle itself vomit as Obs says

 

[obsolete]

edit: btw "not too guilty" = "a bit guilty" right? ok I am good then

Well, a little bit guilty since charismatic has an average of +1 extra happy cap, which means whipping is a little bit better.... which means.... ... ..

I assume we want to whip a settler in TO, correct?

Personally, it all comes down to this... will it speed up oracle or not?

 

[kossin]

Okay I'll check the numbers as I play.

Pre-chop forests in the meantime... yea... fun fun.

 

[obsolete]

Be careful when pre-chopping, it's always fun until someone accidentally hits the 3'rd chop.

Anyhow, no stone is really a problem here, because it is going to cause some problems when we try to fit in the Hagia Sophia. Without it, we are not going to be able to 1-turn road tiles.

I have a rough plan I worked on last night, and while my calcs are a bit messy, I have some excel charts organized for the Hagia Sophia bee-line. Take a look and let me know if we can optimze the expected time-line a bit better?

My notes are here:

Spoiler :

Just Kidding!!!

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

u got me

I was like: "OK he went nut at the minute..." (for my defense, i just realized you played that game in the ST forum -start cow ivory - ... in the afternoon... )

tbh: I am doing some efforts in SGs to check numbers, but I am more of an instinctive player (since you are moking the number crushers I don't feel that concerned ). Obviously, one HAVE to check numbers while whipping, otherwise it's just non sense.

 

[kossin]

@obsolete
With BULL you get auto-chop cancels

Well... that was quick. Ended up being only 8 turns.

Notice Khmer culture right next to our chained island.

Spoiler :

Meet the Japanese, from the north.

Spoiler :

Fastest Oracle you say? Okay.

Spoiler :

No!!! This is the wrong religion spread

Spoiler :

Oh and that barb warrior suicided against ours in a forest. Island is now all spawnbusted except for barb galleys.

As I finished PH, some potential bad news for the near future:

Spoiler :

I put research on AH next but it can always be changed. Dunno what we could want instead

Spoiler :

The other GH is 1 turn away from a mine so it will be ready next turn.

The 2F1H forest is pre-chopped.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Nice (except JC moking us with its galley... and the fact we better settle that western island too)!

I am unavailable to play soon though (or will be soon GF less...). Obs can take his second set of the day... I'll take mine after that!

 

[obsolete]

I'll take a look at the save in a minute.

BTW, I could have told you we'd get Jewdiasm instead of Hindu. The game by default biases against the top religions, this is often what screws you over on deity.

Anyhow, looks like we may have to do one of my common 4-city bust-outs (post-lib) again.. That doesn't worry me, but it does when we can't settle GG's, or make academies, etc.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

academies are out? you don't plan to attach our GS with a submarine!?

 

[kossin]

Of course not!

Scientists made the bomb: tie them up to a tactical and watch them fly!

 

[obsolete]

Hmm, the fact that no one even has writing yet... tells me AH is probably best here for now anyway. The more hammers for the mids race, the better.

One thing we did wrong, was forgetting who to target our spy points on. I will select the Chinese for now, since they are closest, and may even be right beside our capital soon (literally)

Because we got absolutely screwed by 0 rivers this game, the value of wheel goes up a lot, and I think wheel right after AH is best. That way we can at least try to trade some of our few food resources around for a slightly better relation.

 

[kossin]

Also AH will allow to quick start the W and S sites... and who knows, maybe we have horses... NOT!

EP: yes, focus on JC. Good catch

 

[obsolete]

Ok, good news and bad news.

Bad news, yup... the Chinese have settled on our landmass (nothing we could have done about that).

Good news is they settled right on my marker, so I couldn't have asked for better. So.... what does this mean?

I guess it means we will have a city with a granary in it before we even finish teching pottery, Haha!

If we play our cards right, we can get a sword up to 8 exp on his city when the time comes.

Anyhow, we finished Oracle, so I'm 99.9% sure we have a monopoly on Monarchy right now Will be just our luck if no idiot techs alphabet though...

Speaking of idiots... Frederick switches to a religion he didn't even found, and is opposite from everyone else. So it's just a matter of time before Izzy gets a big dog-pile on his ass.

Also, we have a landmass to our East that shows elephants so far.

Anyway, I think we should put all OF into Mids this turn, and in 2 turns we grow to 6 pop, so then we can switch to settler and time things for a 3-pop-whip there? Also, the worker down south should keep chopping the new forests in our culture ring for mids, while the other worker mine + hook up pigs, then run back to capital to hook up cows. What do you think?

And finally... in 2 turns we get our Great Person. More than 2-to-1 favourite for a priest, but doesn't matter what we get, just settle him in capital as soon as he pops.

Now.. time to keep fingers crossed and hope we at least have some Iron kicking around...