Navy
- Thread starter oyzar
- Start date
Andrew_Jay
Prince
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2002
- Messages
- 438
In a recent game I discovered the huge utility of subs:
More than anything else, give them all the withdraw upgrades you can and employ them, literally, as a sort of naval artillery against enemy fleets.
To start off, they're cheap and you can afford to lose them, though several times a stack of 4 or 5 subs with both flanking upgrades survived being thrown at a stack of battleships and destroyers - usually by withdrawing, though occasionally by actually sinking an enemy ship. Plus, you still get the experience when they withdraw.
They might not do any collateral damage, but they definitely soften the enemy up for a safe attack by your battleships.
A good number of subs in a fleet are also a big help when you're being harassed from someone else's territory (i.e. your enemy has open borders with a third-party and you don't). Coupled with airstrikes you can keep them from hitting you in full force and you can take down any retreating stragglers that your surface ships can't pursue into foreign waters.
More than anything else, give them all the withdraw upgrades you can and employ them, literally, as a sort of naval artillery against enemy fleets.
To start off, they're cheap and you can afford to lose them, though several times a stack of 4 or 5 subs with both flanking upgrades survived being thrown at a stack of battleships and destroyers - usually by withdrawing, though occasionally by actually sinking an enemy ship. Plus, you still get the experience when they withdraw.
They might not do any collateral damage, but they definitely soften the enemy up for a safe attack by your battleships.
A good number of subs in a fleet are also a big help when you're being harassed from someone else's territory (i.e. your enemy has open borders with a third-party and you don't). Coupled with airstrikes you can keep them from hitting you in full force and you can take down any retreating stragglers that your surface ships can't pursue into foreign waters.
I know the original post was about the usefulness of a navy in a map where it's not required, so this is half off-topic:
I discovered last night that the AI (on prince) does not choose tech differently for a archipelago map. They seem to get Sailing quick, but don't work too hard to progress to better ships. I got to Astronomy and Galleons as quick as possible, and as a result I have no need to defend my cities with more than one unit because I can effectively blockade enemy ports when a war starts. By the time I started producing frigates only a couple opponents have caravels. Due to all the tech I skipped I don't have much of an army, but since I control the water I choose where to fight. Those isolated colonies are easy pickings.
The downside, I expect that this could turn horribly against me once on opponent gets to Astronomy and Galleons. If they can slip past my naval blockades... I don't have much in the way of city defense.
I discovered last night that the AI (on prince) does not choose tech differently for a archipelago map. They seem to get Sailing quick, but don't work too hard to progress to better ships. I got to Astronomy and Galleons as quick as possible, and as a result I have no need to defend my cities with more than one unit because I can effectively blockade enemy ports when a war starts. By the time I started producing frigates only a couple opponents have caravels. Due to all the tech I skipped I don't have much of an army, but since I control the water I choose where to fight. Those isolated colonies are easy pickings.
The downside, I expect that this could turn horribly against me once on opponent gets to Astronomy and Galleons. If they can slip past my naval blockades... I don't have much in the way of city defense.
Navies are pretty useful for bombarding cities that have bunkers and/or anti-aircraft stuff like SAM infantry. I've also done mass invasions with 4 transports full of my best troops to establish a firm beach-head, when I have no land route. Otherwise I just build a couple of ships per fishing boat tile and that's about it.
HOWEVER: I remember one game where my lack of a strong navy almost screwed me. I had only offshore oil and THOUGHT that a pair of battleships and a destroyer with Medic was enough to defend it, but I was proven wrong when 2 civs DoW on me one after the other, and the rest of my forces were far away fighting 2 other wars. A whole crapload of enemy naval units showed up. I knew I had 1 turn, 2 at the most before my platform bit the dust. So I switched to UniSuff and 0% science (thank goodness for Spiritual), bought some battleships and a workboat, and when they blew up my offshore platform, I quickly raced over and rebuilt it and guarded it with my newly-purchased battleships until my bombers from the other war returned in sufficient numbers to slow down the naval assault. I had to rebuild my platform twice during that game, but I always had a spare workboat in a nearby city to rebuild it on the same turn. Nevertheless it taught me the importance of having a strong navy when your only oil is NOT land-based.
Also, whoever said they just allow their fishing tiles to be pillaged and rebuild them with workboats after the war.. you're nuts. You lose commerce, a lot of food, and everything that entails, whether it's losing specialists (less food) or even starvation of the city if it was getting a lot of food from the sea. It's SO worthwhile to build some ships to guard your food. They get +10% on defense, which combined with drydocks, some civics, and/or Pentagon will allow them to fight defensively with the equivalent of Combat III or higher. Attacking offensively to deal collateral damage against a big ship stack wouldn't hurt, though. Add a medic ship for fun.
HOWEVER: I remember one game where my lack of a strong navy almost screwed me. I had only offshore oil and THOUGHT that a pair of battleships and a destroyer with Medic was enough to defend it, but I was proven wrong when 2 civs DoW on me one after the other, and the rest of my forces were far away fighting 2 other wars. A whole crapload of enemy naval units showed up. I knew I had 1 turn, 2 at the most before my platform bit the dust. So I switched to UniSuff and 0% science (thank goodness for Spiritual), bought some battleships and a workboat, and when they blew up my offshore platform, I quickly raced over and rebuilt it and guarded it with my newly-purchased battleships until my bombers from the other war returned in sufficient numbers to slow down the naval assault. I had to rebuild my platform twice during that game, but I always had a spare workboat in a nearby city to rebuild it on the same turn. Nevertheless it taught me the importance of having a strong navy when your only oil is NOT land-based.
Also, whoever said they just allow their fishing tiles to be pillaged and rebuild them with workboats after the war.. you're nuts. You lose commerce, a lot of food, and everything that entails, whether it's losing specialists (less food) or even starvation of the city if it was getting a lot of food from the sea. It's SO worthwhile to build some ships to guard your food. They get +10% on defense, which combined with drydocks, some civics, and/or Pentagon will allow them to fight defensively with the equivalent of Combat III or higher. Attacking offensively to deal collateral damage against a big ship stack wouldn't hurt, though. Add a medic ship for fun.
Navies are weak. I postpone building boats as long as possible, i feel more comfortable building land armies who can actually capture cities than boats.
They really should improve air/naval power in this game. A bombard to death ability for the heavy air/navy units should be implemented in my opinion. Until they do something like that i will build land units instead of navy.
They really should improve air/naval power in this game. A bombard to death ability for the heavy air/navy units should be implemented in my opinion. Until they do something like that i will build land units instead of navy.
r_rolo1
King of myself
Navy in civ IV is by far one of the weak parts of the game. Unfortunately, i think that was designed to be exactly like that. The game designers saw what the dromon unit could do on civ III and decided to nerf it, doing a a navy that became close to useless ( no zone of control, only bombard coastal cities, no carrier based bombers, no misile subs,... at least they could hade made a minefield action for the workboats ). Given this, I'm suprised that navy can be useful in some situations; like someone said, its easier to kill 8 tanks in a tranport than to kill in land. But the navy, the aircaft and the missile units need a BIG change to this game cease to be a almost only land based game ( Miss you , SMAC!), and became more diversified game .
BARBEERIAN
Prince
Download a good mod if you really like Navy. I'm having a lot of fun currently with VISA mod 3.0. Lots of new Naval units in the early parts of the game, and more diverse industrial/modern units. It really makes Navies so much more robust and useful than Warlords.
Old School
Chieftain
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2006
- Messages
- 8
Half-Off-Topic: I think that subs should have a very high chance to withdraw from combat against the units that cannot see them... and no chance to withdraw from the units that can (destroyers and subs). A sub should almost always be able to survive an attack against a lone battleship... even if the attack is a failure.[/QUOTE]
This is a really good point and i will try to put it in my mod
I am working on a mod called sea harvest b/c i have the same complaints that everyone else in this thread already made. I like having a navy and agree with all the good stratagy commets in this thread too. my mod is to make the sea more important. And naval power vital part of the game.
would love advice, suggestions and help from moders.
This is a really good point and i will try to put it in my mod
I am working on a mod called sea harvest b/c i have the same complaints that everyone else in this thread already made. I like having a navy and agree with all the good stratagy commets in this thread too. my mod is to make the sea more important. And naval power vital part of the game.
would love advice, suggestions and help from moders.
