Need advice expanding my options

Elric of Grans

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I have Civ5 with G&K and BNW. My natural play-style is tall and peaceful. I make 3-4 cities and either fight defensive wars, or assist `Friend' civs in their wars against civs who are a potential threat to me. My wins are probably 4:3 Cultural/Scientific. I am not sure what my win:loss ratio would be. I mostly play Warlord, which is slightly easy for me, but the next difficulty up is a little too hard (a little more experience and I will probably be able to bump it up successfully).

I have never cared overly much about Diplomatic Victories, as I found paying out non-stop bribes to keep City States allied to be really, really boring. In fact, I tend to pretty well ignore City States altogether. It is good when I coincidentally get an ally or two, but I never actively seek influence. Diplomacy seems a lot more interesting in BNW, but I have not really examined it yet.

I have never made a successful attempt at a Domination Victory. I usually intend to do it, make a few troops, then quickly find myself going for a Scientific Victory instead :P I lack any aggressive instincts, even against Barbarians I usually wait for them to come to me and hope someone else deals with them in my place! When I do go to war, I never seem to manage to capture any cities and find bombarding them with siege gets pretty boring after a few turns.

I want to expand my options in the game so I have a little more variety in how to approach things. It would make certain civs I have not played more appealing too (eg Germany, Japan). Diplomatic and Domination Victories go so far against my natural play style that I cannot actually imagine myself undertaking them. Could anyone advise me on how to approach expanding my repertoire?
 
As far as diplomatic victory goes, the best thing to do is ignore the "easy win" gold spam advice - it often works (but not particularly reliably - because you're Player 1, unless you have excess votes, there is always a chance of a buyout before the vote by an AI, and gold doesn't give you enough influence to be unassailable) and it's very inefficient in terms of both gaining influence and using gold you then can't use for anything else.

It's both more interesting and more effective in the long run to play the diplomacy game by focusing on fulfilling CS quests and using spies to rig elections (coups if desperate, but they suffer from similar problems to gold spam - only available in your turn, and will generally not give you a large amount of influence over the former ally).

You also want to maximise the votes you gain through the World Congress, which means you'll need respectable amounts of tourism for ideology and to focus on spreading your religion widely.

War is useful to liberate defeated civs or captive city-states, or to seize city-states you can't earn through spies, quests or bribery - on larger maps you simply won't have enough spies to go round, and the best solution to this is often to remove the excess CSes from play (you don't need a spy in every CS - sometimes your influence will be so high from questing that you're in little danger of losing it, but if an AI takes an interest in a city-state, bear in mind that the chance of rigging an election when opposed by a foreign spy is partly linked to the length of time each spy has been in the CS - the 'defender' is at an advantage).

A good civ to use for diplo victory is Siam - it gives you no advantages in securing city-state favour, which means you need to work to use its UA, however the tools you want to learn to use to maximise the value of Siam's UA are the same ones you want to use to win diplo victory (and don't include gold spam - if you try that to keep good relations with CSes throughout the game as Siam, you'll either go bankrupt or fall behind because you can't afford the units and buildings you want to rushbuy to keep up).

I struggle with domination as well - I'm playing a game as the Huns at the moment and have so far only succeeded in taking one city, Cape Town, just past turn 100. I expect to soon get an excuse to move on Persia, however, as my spy just told me Darius is building for a sneak attack, and I plan an attack on Singapore in the meantime. This is an experiment for me mainly to see what all the fuss is about with the new warmonger penalty.

On the basis of my experience so far, while at a higher level, I would not advise warmongering with the Huns for a beginner at domination. They require a slightly odd tech path in the earliest game, not having spearmen can be a pain, and their unique units don't keep promotions on upgrade. Plus you have to hit very early with them, which a player who isn't instinctively aggressive will struggle with.

Persia is a powerful warmonger and may help keep the game interesting for you since you need to focus on empire development (i.e. maximising happiness) rather than just hitting things. And if you find the catapults boring, there are always the Assyrians and Zulus. Personally I find Assyria can struggle without access to catapults, however.
 
Interesting questions and answer even for a bit of a Civ V noob myself (tho not new to Civ, far from it :))........tho I do hope the OP will thank Phil for such a good answer!!! ;) ;) ;) (only messin')
D
 
Well, you're halfway to being a "partial domination" master, in which you wreak alot more havoc than before, and then still win via science or culture.

Crippling civs, keeping a science lead, and building culture are all closely-related, so it sounds like you could just transition to hassling more civs along the way :)
 
One way to dominate diplomatically is to focus on cultivating faith and culture. You can reach a sort of critical mass whereby city states just start to swoon over you--and if you play Greece, you can lock them in for the end-game.

As for domination, it's pretty hard these days. I find late-game combat tedious, so I haven't gone for a conquest win since Vanilla. It is doable, though, with the right ideology choices. You have to nurture your empire in the first half and maybe take a few neighbors out, but carefully so as not to tick off the rest. Then rush for modern armor, build an air force and start knocking them down.

Main thing, though, is to focus on your core game to work up out of Warlord. Each jump up feels hard, but you've got to press on to figure out how to optimize your growth and development. You told us your city priorities, but what about techs, policies, and improvements? What paths and strategies are you pursuing there? We could advise further with more detail about where you are now.
 
G&K & BNW for Domination: Start tall and focus on science to get a tech lead. Then build powerful units to go conquering.

BNW Diplomatic: No need to attempt to be game long allies with most of the city states. Instead just focus on a couple with city state quests you'd want to do anyway and when go get spies after the first one in the capital to protect your techs send the next few to protect your city states. After that the last spies used to acqurie a few more.
Go Freedom and within it choose then level 3 tenent that gives free influence to every city state you have a trade route with (aprox 30 turns before you estimate you will acquire it you start redirecting cargo ships away from the major AI and to city states).
Tech progress is normal until midway thru Atomic era, from there you beeline to Globalization. About ten turns before the first vote after you have Globalization, turn your spies into diplomats.
 
Thank you for the suggestions.

Going Culture/Faith with an eye to doing CS quests seems a good starting plan for a Diplomatic Victory. Aiming for a Scientific Victory while terrorising my neighbours sounds like a good plan on improving my familiarity with combat without jumping right into the deep end. Perhaps use a military civ like Germany or Japan for the latter? With either, would I be better advised starting on smaller maps?

Main thing, though, is to focus on your core game to work up out of Warlord. Each jump up feels hard, but you've got to press on to figure out how to optimize your growth and development. You told us your city priorities, but what about techs, policies, and improvements? What paths and strategies are you pursuing there? We could advise further with more detail about where you are now.

I pretty well always play Standard size, Standard time, standard rules (eg Barbarians, etc), start from year dot, pick a civ I have not won with before, and random opponents. I usually swing between Pangea and Continents, though I have thrown in Islands when playing a naval civ (eg England). Hey, I am not above playing to my advantages :P I have played smaller and larger maps before, but Standard does feel a good size.

I start my tech priorities by looking at what my starting luxuries are. If both use the same improvement (eg Plantation) I put that as my #1 priority. If they are split, I prioritise Plantations > Quarries > Camps and pick up ONE of them first and save the other until a little later. I almost always tech to Writing asap and try to have The Wheel around about when I start my second city (so I can immediately link them with a road). In a BNW Culture game, I prioritise technologies that get me Tourism buildings (and usually Religion ones, like Hagia Sophia). In Science game, I prioritise science techs (Writing -> Education -> Architecture -> Scientific Theory).

Policies, I tend to swing between Tradition and Liberty for my opening. I have never finished an Honour game to recollection and not yet opened with Piety (though intend to soon). My decision there usually comes down to what Civ I am playing (eg Tradition for Rome, Liberty for China). Since I usually ignore City States, I ignore Patronage. I use Aesthetics for Cultural and Rationalism for Science. I pretty well always pick up Commerce in BNW and end up swimming in money. I rarely play maritime-heavy, so Exploration is rarely useful to me. I cannot recall ever using Order or Autocracy in any version of the game, always running Freedom. I always fill whatever Social Policy I start and try to time my individual policies to what I need (eg pick up Collective Rule after The Wheel, then Meritocracy after Roads are completed). In BNW, I have been prioritising Freedom after unlocking it.

For cities, I start by picking up :c5production: buildings, followed by :c5gold:, then :c5happy:. After that, I prioritise :c5science: or :c5culture:, picking up lower-tier versions of the opposite when I have room. If I have no important buildings that take priority, I often build Wonders. I only build Wonders that provide notable benefits to my game (eg The Great Library, but not The Temple of Artemis). I rarely fail to get a Wonder I started (one every two or three games). I manually adjust my worker allocation from time to time (as needed) and put in appropriate specialists ASAP. I usually pick up :c5faith: in there too, but usually do not prioritise this. Since BNW, I have exploited the heck out of caravans for :c5gold:! For improvements, I have some regular habits that I set my Workers to in the following priority:
* Luxury resource = Plantation/Quarry/etc
* Special resource = Farm/Pasture/etc
* Riverside = Farm
* Hill = Mine
* Plain = Trading Post
* Grassland = Specialist improvement (eg Science Academy)
I always found cities near Luxuries; ones I do not already have, if at all possible. I usually found them on river-sides, but will break from that if there are luxuries away from the rivers. I also keep an eye open for a good mix of food and production, generally shying away from Deserts. Honestly, whether or not the city is on a Hill never comes into consideration. I usually cut down all the forests very early on to boost production, then build the appropriate improvement after each section is removed.

I trade regularly with the other civs, usually swapping one luxury for another, but trading things I do not need for :c5gold: the rest of the time. I readily set up Embassies and Open Borders. I try to maintain Friends with civs, though expect them to stab be in the back at any time. Once available, I try to open Research Agreements as much as possible too, though some Civs always seem to be too broke to do these.
 
Thank you for the suggestions.

Going Culture/Faith with an eye to doing CS quests seems a good starting plan for a Diplomatic Victory. Aiming for a Scientific Victory while terrorising my neighbours sounds like a good plan on improving my familiarity with combat without jumping right into the deep end. Perhaps use a military civ like Germany or Japan for the latter? With either, would I be better advised starting on smaller maps?

Smaller maps are generally easier for most victory conditions - if you're comfortable with large maps on Warlord, you may want to try a size or two smaller on Prince.

I pretty well always play Standard size, Standard time, standard rules (eg Barbarians, etc), start from year dot, pick a civ I have not won with before, and random opponents. I usually swing between Pangea and Continents, though I have thrown in Islands when playing a naval civ (eg England). Hey, I am not above playing to my advantages :P I have played smaller and larger maps before, but Standard does feel a good size.

Japan is an odd one. As revised in the recent patch, it's instinctive to suggest it's best on archipelago maps, since it gets bonuses from atolls and fishing boats. However, it is still a warmonger civ and with a medieval land unit as a UU. This gives it a playstyle much better-suited to maps where you have rivals that are accessible by land, since by the time you hit Astronomy to allow quick passage across oceans for your invasion force, your military heyday has passed. Continents with a good amount of coast seem likely to be best for Japan.

I start my tech priorities by looking at what my starting luxuries are. If both use the same improvement (eg Plantation) I put that as my #1 priority. If they are split, I prioritise Plantations > Quarries > Camps and pick up ONE of them first and save the other until a little later.

That's generally a sound plan, but it's good to consider what the 'luxury tech' leads to (for example, if you have silver and gems, bear in mind not just whether you want Mining immediately, but also whether you want to rush the Bronze Working tech path). Unless you build workers immediately (and probably even if you do), a good general plan is to take Pottery first regardless of your starting situation, because it gives you access to granaries and shrines (valuable if you want early religion and aren't needing to go for Calendar immediately), and it leads directly to Writing.

In my own games, whether or not I tech to Writing immediately tends to depend a lot on my start. Unless I have a good food start, it is usually not worth it if there are better alternatives since a library is only valuable when you have a decent population size.

Policies, I tend to swing between Tradition and Liberty for my opening. I have never finished an Honour game to recollection and not yet opened with Piety (though intend to soon). My decision there usually comes down to what Civ I am playing (eg Tradition for Rome, Liberty for China). Since I usually ignore City States, I ignore Patronage. I use Aesthetics for Cultural and Rationalism for Science. I pretty well always pick up Commerce in BNW and end up swimming in money. I rarely play maritime-heavy, so Exploration is rarely useful to me. I cannot recall ever using Order or Autocracy in any version of the game, always running Freedom. I always fill whatever Social Policy I start and try to time my individual policies to what I need (eg pick up Collective Rule after The Wheel, then Meritocracy after Roads are completed). In BNW, I have been prioritising Freedom after unlocking it.

These all sound like sound general decisions that should serve you well above Warlord. It's usually a good idea to choose between Liberty and Tradition, for instance, based more on map context than civ selection (unless you specifically have a civ that benefits from playing either tall or wide) - if you don't have many good city spots in the landscape and good food and/or production to quickly train settlers, Liberty will generally not help a great deal.

Honor has its uses, contrary to its many critics here, but it is very specifically tailored to warmongering civs, and certain civs will get more out of it than others. It might be one to try with Japan, as Bushido will help in taking out barbarians quickly and you could get a very early head start culturally (although the Aztecs are better still in this regard).

Usually, if taking Piety you don't want to take, e.g. "full Liberty then full Piety" - you also don't want Piety as your first policy because it's the only starting tree whose opener doesn't give you a culture boost of some kind. So you will usually find yourself completing two trees in parallel; some Piety policies you want very early to maximise the effect (mainly, the opener and Organized Religion); you can usually then finish Liberty (or whatever - it could be Tradition, but religion is one area where wide empires are better than tall ones as a general rule) and return to Piety in time to get the first (or one of the first) Reformation beliefs.

For cities, I start by picking up :c5production: buildings, followed by :c5gold:, then :c5happy:. After that, I prioritise :c5science: or :c5culture:, picking up lower-tier versions of the opposite when I have room. If I have no important buildings that take priority, I often build Wonders. I only build Wonders that provide notable benefits to my game (eg The Great Library, but not The Temple of Artemis).

As you improve your play, you'll find that in this specific case Artemis is usually a better investment than Great Library - a 10% growth bonus is significant.

Luxury resource = Plantation/Quarry/etc
* Special resource = Farm/Pasture/etc
* Riverside = Farm
* Hill = Mine
* Plain = Trading Post
* Grassland = Specialist improvement (eg Science Academy)

It's a good rule of thumb that, where possible, a tile should pay for the citizen working it - so a plain with 2 food, 1 production is better than one with 1 food, 1 production and 1 gold, for instance, since the citizen is costing you 2 food. At the same time you will need excess food in order to maximise growth, maintain specialists, and allow you to work mines, so don't neglect grassland farms (3 food) - grassland and rivers are however good places to site GP improvements (again, because they allow you to pay the food cost for the citizen working it).

I always found cities near Luxuries; ones I do not already have, if at all possible. I usually found them on river-sides, but will break from that if there are luxuries away from the rivers.

At the moment, rivers are mainly useful for trade cities, so only prioritise them if you have a diversity of resources in the area and potential trading partners. Usually river sites will be good general sites for settling cities, and the defensive bonus can be helpful, but you should probably be thinking "resources and hills first, rivers if associated with them" rather than "rivers first, luxuries if associated with them". Deserts are an obvious exception because of flood plains - it's very rare to find a useful desert city site that isn't associated with a river.

I also keep an eye open for a good mix of food and production, generally shying away from Deserts

A good tip is to specialise - you will want your production cities to have some food (and indeed your food cities to have some production), but an even mix is generally not as desirable as a hill city with a couple of wheat tiles, or a mostly grassland city with iron and a a couple of hills. The former can build units very quickly as needed and so act as your military city, and can also be a Wonder factory; the latter has enough production to build, e.g. universities, and enough food to place citizens in them as specialists.

Honestly, whether or not the city is on a Hill never comes into consideration. I usually cut down all the forests very early on to boost production, then build the appropriate improvement after each section is removed.

The production boost from a forest is only 20 hammers at the start of the game; that's 20 turns'-worth of working it, plus getting its food bonus. If you have a city with little other production and the forest isn't on a hill, keeping it is often a good idea so that you can build lumber mills when you get to Construction. Forest on grassland (which gives the critical 2 food, plus production) is potentially useful for trading posts. It's a good plan only to cut them down when you need a lump sum of production quickly - for example when building a Wonder or a Settler.

I trade regularly with the other civs, usually swapping one luxury for another, but trading things I do not need for :c5gold: the rest of the time.

With the way the economy works in BNW, I've tended to find myself preferentially settling duplicate resources I can sell for gold in the early game, as long as my happiness is not too limited.

I readily set up Embassies and Open Borders. I try to maintain Friends with civs, though expect them to stab be in the back at any time. Once available, I try to open Research Agreements as much as possible too, though some Civs always seem to be too broke to do these.

That's quite often because they've already made research agreements with another civ the previous turn - it's gamey, but one option if you have excess cash is to gift them some money (or buy something you need with it, such as a strategic resource) and then sign the agreement.
 
I have just made a couple of attempts of Japan/Standard size/Warlord/Continents with an Honour opening. I quit both games after a while because my progress felt far too slow. Border growth was too slow, expanding to new cities too slow (and not as many cities as I normally would have) and science progress was FAR too slow. Both games started on the coast, which makes sense for Japan. I think I will give them another go with a Tradition or Liberty opening instead.
 
Warlord ? Try peaceful Cultural Victory. Build wonders, play thematic bonus mini-game, bomb AI with your musicians. Japan is fun for this victory and pretty play-rolling.

To learn domination, understand you lost your unit when health bar is at 0. Before, it can deal damage and heal. If you lost an unit, you can build another or buy it, it's just a few turns lost. It was my main issue to change of my peaceful science victory on Prince.
On warlord, with 4 CrossBowman and a pikeman you can conquer the world.
 
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