Okay, here's the synopsis: Europeans never sailed across the Atlantic. The Little Ice Age never occurred. As a result, many of the old Pre-Columbian American cultures and civilizations could continue to advance and expand.
The standard game starts around 1500 BC, the general start for most stable American cultures, such as the Olmec and Maya. Here's the progress on the tech tree so far:
As you can tell, I got some work to do. Agriculture, I figure, is a tech that can take a long time to develop naturally if you didn't start out with it. (And I also think I might merge it with Basketry). There is also a row of civ-specific techs to help that civ make its unique buildings/governments, but I'm not too worried about that.
My main problem is, I can't think of any techs. At least, not ones that I can link to the unconnected ones you see. I'm trying to make it historically accurate while at the same time, being fun and practical.
If anyone is able to help me out with their ideas, I would tremendously appreciate it! And I'll make sure to put your name in the credits
Alright, I've connected Urbanization to Irrigation and Masonry, that should be good enough for now. I'd like to give Pictograms some more reason to be in the tree (right now it's supposed to allow the building of things like Petroglyphs). I'm considering wiping it out entirely. I also want to add more meaning to Basketry and extend its line.
I'm also trying to look into the religion part. Native American religions didn't develop the same way as Old World ones, so logically they wouldn't have the same tech trees. I've considered adding Pantheism, but not all cultures went this route.
Tech trees are tough. With yours, I'd probably do this. Make Urbanization a pre-requisite tech for The Confederacy. Change Pictogram to Heiroglypics. And change Geometry to Math. And set Chiefdom to Era=None and give it only to the civs that are tribe-oriented? Not sure what else I'd do. It would take a lot of time to figure out.
Tech trees are tough. With yours, I'd probably do this. Make Urbanization a pre-requisite tech for The Confederacy. Change Pictogram to Heiroglypics. And change Geometry to Math. And set Chiefdom to Era=None and give it only to the civs that are tribe-oriented? Not sure what else I'd do. It would take a lot of time to figure out.
Urbanization and Confederacy seems like a good idea, I'll see what I can do. Geometry isn't quite Mathematics, though. Mathematics in the stock Civ seems to represent higher forms of math such as algebra, trigonometry, etc. The Geometry tech would represent a tech that IRL Pueblo peoples, Mississippians, early Maya etc. knew of, before advancing to higher forms.
All civs start the game with Tribalism. Chiefdom in this case refers to a complex chiefdom, which is a lot more than a tribe. It includes separate social classes, a family-inherited ruling dynasty, political hierarchy, and a central paramount chief that rules under all the lower and tributary chiefdoms. It's essentially a primitive monarchy.
I sort of took a break from this after this thread went a bit stagnant and forgot. So I haven't exactly come up with a whole lot. I got lots-a-more Native American history to study.
In my head, it's not exactly static. Sometimes it's for a culture, sometimes it's just for a civ. Basically, it's to help civs and cultures to build their own improvements/wonders, have specific resources, and further influence an AI's choice of government. That way, the Maya can't build totem poles, the Haida don't build mounds, etc.
Keep in mind, with a combination of Culture and Civ-Specific techs, you could do something like make a Cave Dwelling Wonder available to all tribes in the Southwestern Culture Group except the Shoshone by making that wonder only available by the Southwestern Culture-specific tech (or descendant tech, or require a resource that is only made available by that tech), but made obsolete by the Shoshone civ-specific tech. Throw Trait-specific techs into the mix and anything goes
Well, I sure do hate to have been away from this post for so long. A flooded house and the total repair of the downstairs therein (and other things) can help to take one's mind off of certain things such as this. But now I'd really like to get back into this, and hopefully there shall be no more interruptions.
In the time between this I've discovered alternatehistory.com, and that's helped loads in helping me think about how culture can develop. I think in order to make the best tech tree (and other things as a result) and to help make the mod really tangible, I might just have to make a little essay of sorts and make a brief history of Pre-Columbian America up to a certain point. Maybe not to the degree that AlternateHistory timelines are made out, but eh.
Alright, I'm looking at the tech tree once more to see if it's on a good footing. It has to start out -relatively- neutral and yet have opportunities for slightly unequal advancement, can't go too fast as many cultures 'developed' slowly yet came up with their own unique inventions still, and has to be available to all civs (we can deal with civ-specifics later). As it is right now, it's going a little fast and I feel there's a whole lot I've skipped over with those big generic-ish techs. And I fear an AI Iroquois can too easily pick up mining and masonry too early in the game. It's good for now I suppose but I really should rework it.
I’m not sure how to do that essay thing or even if I should, so I'll just do a summary of the technological history of various cultures I've included in this mod, from 1500 BC to AD:
Maya:
Spoiler:
Oldest 'civilized' timeline in here (I'm not including the Olmec as a playable civ, they may as well be pre-Maya anyway culturally speaking. Same with Toltecs-Aztecs.), but I have a few ideas to keep them from getting a headstart. At 1500 BC they're actually no different than anyone else, slowly starting to get more and more maize in their diets and trading with the advanced Olmec. They do, however, have pottery. Fast forward 500 years and people are really digging the whole trade thing. Obsidian is widely used, and we've likely got some political-religious development going on, maybe shamanism. Irrigation is being discovered, with little canals dug here and there. Actual 'permanent' settlements begin here. A little later plazas and religious mounds are being built, and sometimes the mounds are covered or augmented with stone. Not masonry, I wouldn't think. The Maya are beginning to be a bit more vicious, with a warrior culture being portrayed. Beginning at 900 BC, weak citystates are forming and exercising power over smaller ones. Kingships are developing there that organize big projects. Big structures are also being built in other citystates. Borrowing ideas from the Olmec (or perhaps as the result of both improving upon the concept after the Maya invent it first), the Maya appear to begin work on developed writing at 700 BC. 600 BC Tikal is founded. Though already practiced by many cultures, the first stone ballcourts are found in this period. At 400 BC, we have first evidence of the Mayan calendar. At 300, they form a monarchic society with kings and nobles. 100 BC, pyramidic temples are being built. At 400 AD, Teotihuacan (near the future site of Aztec Tenochtitlan) is exercising a cultural dominance over the highland Maya, providing them with culture and Tikal becomes a mighty capital of the Maya 'empire'. Political and economic systems flourish -- trade is established from Lake Texcoco and the Caribbean to the Isthmus of Panama. Urbanization, specialization, construction, intellectualism and art are landmarks of the Classic Age. No new technologies it seems after this, and even though the Little Ice Age and the Spanish have been off'd the Maya may still collapse. But now, they might have a chance of coming back...perhaps if guided by some benevolent ruler...*COUGH* (Holy crap this was long. I'll try and make the next one more concise...)
Aztecs:
Spoiler:
Probably the most known timeline. Starting as a seminomadic tribe with a history of being kicked out of several states due to their slightly horrifying ways, the Mexica settle in Lake Texcoco and build Tenochtitlan at the command of Tenochtli in 1325, expanding their island with their land-building, agriculture-boosting chinampa system. Causeways and the Templo Mayor are built in 1350 and 1390. Around the 1420s Tlacaelel essentially forces a rewrite of Aztec history, increasing militarism (and possibly elevating the warrior class creating the Jaguar Warrior) , adding Huitzilopochtli to the pantheon and introducing the 'flower war' system of mutually coordinated war for the sake of sacrifices. The priests believe in an all-penetrating force called teotl that will allow for cultural existence and later expansion. In 1426, an aqueduct is built providing running water to Tenochtitlan. They rebel against their Tepanec oppressors and make alliances (and conquer) their way to a hegemonic empire.
Inca:
Spoiler:
'Civilization' in the form of agricultural, religious, citybuilding polities have existed in the Andes for about as long as Old World civilizations, however they were very small. Plant domestication, basketry, pottery (in the form of basic ceramic vessels), and metalworking (in the form of copper and gold hammering) have all been discovered relatively early on, though the Incas are still a band of tribes at this point. Things start taking off with the Chavin culture around 900 BC, introducing to the Andes refined pottery, weaving, and the start of ‘advanced’ religion and architecture. Smelting and other forms of metallurgy are developed during this time with gold, silver and copper (but not bronze and iron), as well as an elite system through shamanism. They can build with stone but likely the lasting stuff is for the elite. The Wari build the first agricultural terraces at around 500 BC, and were likely militaristic. Quipus have been found in this period (though many textile designs had ideographic meaning). After that, the Moche (which are a civ itself in this scenario, as Chimor). Well-codified rituals and human sacrifice up until the climate change of 536 AD. Contemporaneous were the Tiwanaku polity, which unlike other cultures (but like the Inca) had command economies instead of market economies, and created colonies, trade agreements and state cults to expand its cultural influence. The Tiwanaku also bring to the table advanced construction techniques, including the interlocking dry stone methods the Incas were famous for. By the time the Incas come around (1197 AD), bronze working appears and starts making its way northward to parts of Mexico. They combine the military nature of the Wari with the command economical policies of Tiwanaku, and create a formidable, regimented and uniquely organized army, rather than an elite warrior class. With their technology and infrastructure, they can go on to conquer the entire Andes and beyond.
Puebloans:
Spoiler:
Called the Anasazi when referring to their time as a structured political entity, but this term does not engulf all of the pueblo-building people in the Southwest, and the term is not preferred by modern Pueblo people. Basket-weaving semi-nomads, they start farming maize at around 500 BC. At 400 AD, pithouses (not masonry) become common. At 500 AD, turquoise is harvested, and shaman cults exist here. The bow is also introduced at this time, and social organization is increasing as ‘great kivas’ are built. From 700 to 900 AD, above ground stone buildings are being constructed, and turkey farming takes hold. Large construction projects are taking place in Chaco Canyon as the Anasazi emerge as a complex social polity, likely a cooperation with elites and shaman priests, or a shaman elite themselves. Also in this time period, canals, reservoirs and cisterns are built, and pottery is fully developed. In 1076, astronomical observatories are built and buildings are aligned on astronomical planes. Roads are expanded, and the Puebloans export turquoise and other items to Mesoamerica for cacao, macaws, and copper bells. By the 1100s, evidence for an elite system is stronger than ever with elite burials, large populations and wealth. Agricultural technology has furthered with terraces and other methods for efficient farming in an arid climate. After that, we have the effects of climate change (something I’ve axed out in this scenario) bringing this would-be civilization to its knees.
Mississippians:
Spoiler:
This one was hard to do because I can’t find any fully detailed chronologies of this culture. Although several mound sites predate 1500 BC, I’ll leave them out as outliers and especially since they’re not directly related to the Mississippian culture. The Mississippians begin development in a stage termed by archaeologists as the Woodland period at 1000 BC, marked by the use of (crude) pottery. Farming of native squash, sunflower and other plants also appears during this time but corn doesn’t appear until 900 AD. Possibly a few hundred years later (800 BC?) shamanism starts taking hold, and large burial mounds are built (not sure if they’re used for anything else right now). As a result of these three things social organization and specialization increases. Permanent settlements are getting more common. From 300 BC to 500 AD, ritualism and religion advances as more massive, elaborate earthworks are built that are geometrically and astronomically aligned. Trade networks expand and intensify, and high-quality pottery is manufactured. Copper is traded throughout the culture complex, often pounded and worked into elaborate designs. At around 700 AD, the bow and arrow is introduced. This likely led to a newer level of dangerous warfare, and palisades were erected around cities and ceremonial centers for defense. By 1000 AD, urbanization was common and the shaman/big man effects on society evolved into complex chiefdoms. Cahokia (founded centuries ago) was by far the most influential, its influence stretching for hundreds of miles. Ideas continued to spread and society continued to evolve up until the Little Ice Age. I don’t think I got as much information onto here as I’d have liked…
The Iroquois are basically the Mississippians, but without the mounds. They and similar cultures kinda branch off from them at 1000 AD. I literally couldn’t find anything else about their development.
Well, I think that should help a bit...I still don’t think it covered anything, but it’s better than nothing. I’ve never done anything as big as what I’m planning here, so this’ll be a learning experience in more ways than one…
As always, input from you guys is invaluable to me and I'll take all the help I can get
You've only begun your journey, Thes. You have many choices before you: which techs will have which flags, for instance. That can influence their position on the tech tree. Here are some Flags Charts I made for techs, buildings and wonders: View attachment Flag Charts.rar
Food for thought - here's another Tech tree from Pak 128 that builds resources into techs and buildings:
My advice: Make a graphic depiction of your timeline, showing all four 'eras' at once, and place events in the histories of all your civs into place along it, preferably as separate timelines running in parallel. Don't forget weather events (you can look those up). I did that with a tech tree I've been working on, and it helped me flesh it out.
Sorry that I did not jump in earlier. For Haida, you might want a special Wood Working Tech as Civilization specific, as they were extremely competent workers in wood, and had some of the finest timber in the world to work with. They also had to figure out how to cut down trees with a diameter in excess of 10 feet with stone tools and fire. They also produced the largest dug-out canoes in the New World, with some in excess of 70 feet. They did have wood-based armor as well.
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