china444
Ain't no thang
Just remeber, the farther away you build a city from a Palace or FP the corruption rises.
Need Help With City Locations!
- Thread starter Ænigma
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Carbon_Copy
Elemental
@Matthias: Overall some good advice, except for one significant bit: The starting build should NOT go warrior->warrior->settler. The only time you want to start out with a build like that would be if your capital was low on food but very close to a location with high food. Since Babylon has bonus grasslands and a grassland cow, building a granary before the first settler will generally lead to a better growth curve. So instead of warrior, warrior, settler, try warrior, warrior, granary, settler, and then either follow directly with another settler, or go with another military unit and then another settler. It delays your second city, but greatly speeds up founding every other city past that since you aren't waiting on population growth nearly as long.
@Shillen...Some rebuttal is in order. I'd disagree with a rush to the Great Lighthouse for this sort of map. With the 40% land archipelagos, you're about as likely to create some sort of twisted pangea or continents map as you are a string of islands, and in either case you probably don't even need Astronomy to make contact with other landmasses. This one in particular looks like it's at least a continent-sized starting landmass and it has at least three civs on it (Zulus, Babs, Iros), and probably room for more, since the Zulus hardly moved an inch towards Babylon in the 2000 years after founding Ululundi and AEnigma hasn't really yet hit the boundaries of this landmass with his scouts except for the northern shore. The fact that the Zulus founded exactly one city closer to Babylon than Ululundi also invalidated some of my reasons for choosing my red dot first, that being to help shut off the rest of the continent and establish a more favorable border against Zulu expansion. In that case I'd probably lead off with the gray dot, then the blue and yellow dots, before picking up the red dot and finishing out my list.
Is this a large map or a standard one? I can't really tell from the minimap. If it's a standard map, then my green dot or maybe one city's length further out into the fog is about as good as you can get to build it by hand, but you can probably go out a little further on a large one.
@Shillen...Some rebuttal is in order. I'd disagree with a rush to the Great Lighthouse for this sort of map. With the 40% land archipelagos, you're about as likely to create some sort of twisted pangea or continents map as you are a string of islands, and in either case you probably don't even need Astronomy to make contact with other landmasses. This one in particular looks like it's at least a continent-sized starting landmass and it has at least three civs on it (Zulus, Babs, Iros), and probably room for more, since the Zulus hardly moved an inch towards Babylon in the 2000 years after founding Ululundi and AEnigma hasn't really yet hit the boundaries of this landmass with his scouts except for the northern shore. The fact that the Zulus founded exactly one city closer to Babylon than Ululundi also invalidated some of my reasons for choosing my red dot first, that being to help shut off the rest of the continent and establish a more favorable border against Zulu expansion. In that case I'd probably lead off with the gray dot, then the blue and yellow dots, before picking up the red dot and finishing out my list.
Is this a large map or a standard one? I can't really tell from the minimap. If it's a standard map, then my green dot or maybe one city's length further out into the fog is about as good as you can get to build it by hand, but you can probably go out a little further on a large one.
Haven't cracker and some others done comparisons of growth and expansion with and without a granary? IIRC, the curves cross at about the 4th to 6th city founded. So you could be better off without an initial granary if you're hemmed in, or plan to go to war with your first few cities.
I'm really curious how people get by with only two warriors early when they're building a granary. Do you bring one of them back as MP? You need to work the lux slider a heck of a lot harder with no MP in my experience. (Example: growing city with 1 MP, no temple, no lux, regent level. 0% lux through size 3, 10% at size 4, 20% at size 5. Same conditions without MP: 0% lux through size 2, 20% lux size 3, 40 % lux size 4.)
Renata
I'm really curious how people get by with only two warriors early when they're building a granary. Do you bring one of them back as MP? You need to work the lux slider a heck of a lot harder with no MP in my experience. (Example: growing city with 1 MP, no temple, no lux, regent level. 0% lux through size 3, 10% at size 4, 20% at size 5. Same conditions without MP: 0% lux through size 2, 20% lux size 3, 40 % lux size 4.)
Renata
BillChin
Prince
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Renata, yes, the luxury slider is the key. Adjust as necessary. Exploring warriors are more valuable in terms of getting contacts, and map than as garrison. On Deity level, barbs arrive early making it dangerous to get by without a garrison. On lower levels this is usually not a problem.
On the map given, my opinion is that a settler before the granary is a good idea because of all the bonus food tiles available. Faster pop growth by claiming another early food bonus seems better than the faster pop growth in the capital with the granary. Then again, I am not as analytical as some players. Some players have been known to graph out their moves on paper before playing them out. Maybe one of them can settle the issue definitively with a graphed out growth curve for granary and no granary, or granary after one settler, for this map.
+ Bill
On the map given, my opinion is that a settler before the granary is a good idea because of all the bonus food tiles available. Faster pop growth by claiming another early food bonus seems better than the faster pop growth in the capital with the granary. Then again, I am not as analytical as some players. Some players have been known to graph out their moves on paper before playing them out. Maybe one of them can settle the issue definitively with a graphed out growth curve for granary and no granary, or granary after one settler, for this map.
+ Bill
That's why I usually build *three* warriors - 2 to explore and a third to garrison the capital. I guess I'm trading off the four or so turns it takes to build the extra warrior against the loss of science beakers from increased use of the lux slider for extended periods of time. I'm just not sure which is more efficient.
Renata
Renata
I usually build 3 warriors first. 3 warriors + 1 worker = no unit support cost. You'll go negative when you produce the settler but you'll be fine once it founds it's city. I use two warriors for exploration and one for military police. On lower difficulty levels I'll use the first two to explore, but higher difficulty levels I need to leave the second one behind. When I don't have military police I sometimes have to raise my lux slider as high as 50%. That's just entirely too much to be worth it. It really slows down your research and income. I'm fine with going as high as 30% though until I get my first lux or two hooked up.
I usually produce one settler before building a granary. It really depends on the location of bonus food tiles though. If my capital is the only bonus food in sight and there's a forest nearby I'll usually build the granary right away and use the forest to get it done quicker. But in most cases getting that second city founded early is more important than an early granary.
I usually produce one settler before building a granary. It really depends on the location of bonus food tiles though. If my capital is the only bonus food in sight and there's a forest nearby I'll usually build the granary right away and use the forest to get it done quicker. But in most cases getting that second city founded early is more important than an early granary.
anarres
anarchist revolutionary
I don't have time to analyse the maps, but my golden piece of advice is to not be afraid of the lux slider in the first 80 turns or so. Taking time to build MP is wasting time your cities could be doing something more useful, like building your granaries.
Carbon_Copy
Elemental
I still think a granary would have been in order for Babylon. It's true there are a lot of grassland cows south and west of the capital, but they're in an awkward formation to irrigate (the worker would have to move all the way to that westernmost cow to bring irrigation to the others), that city (my pink dot, Matthias's #1) will be slow out of the gate, and while it will catch up on growth quickly, I don't think it would be quick enough to make up for lost growth in the capital and the delay in getting those cows irrigated. The only easily irrigable bonus food tile is that plains wheat north and west of the capital, and one plains wheat isn't enough to warrant a settler before a granary when the capital has the equivalent in a grassland cow.
I would have built the worker in the 2nd city with the cows. Therefore the worker would only have to move 1 move to get to the western cow. Basically this strategy is the same as building an early granary. When you build an early granary you're sacrificing early growth for a big boom later. Settling your second city with the 3 cows would also slow down your start but would give you a a drastic bonus as soon as you got it going. And keep in mind it's not like you never build a granary in Babylon, it's just delayed 1 settler. You're still going to get most of the bonus of the granary anyway. But like someone else said we'd need DaveMcW or someone to crunch the numbers for us. I'm not good at that kind of thing myself.
I wouldn't count out the Great Lighthouse from being important either. There's a chance you won't need it, but there's a chance it will make a huge impact on your game as well. Considering it is an archipelago I'd say there's a better chance it will be useful than not useful. Now if it was a continents game then I'd say it's not worth it, but low water archipelago is still an archipelago.
I wouldn't count out the Great Lighthouse from being important either. There's a chance you won't need it, but there's a chance it will make a huge impact on your game as well. Considering it is an archipelago I'd say there's a better chance it will be useful than not useful. Now if it was a continents game then I'd say it's not worth it, but low water archipelago is still an archipelago.
BillChin
Prince
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Ok, the results of my unscientific test are in. I play three games to 1000 BC (80 turns) one with settlers only, one with a granary first, the third with a settler first and then a granary.
Carbon_Copy seems correct. The granary game did best with 15 cities and 4 settlers at 1000 B. C. The other two games had fewer cities with 12 cities for settlers only, 13 cities for settler-granary. So on this map (and probably most maps with open land) granary first. By the way, it was warrior-warrior-granary and the lux slider did get up to 50%
I got pottery free from the hut, but otherwise, pottery at 100% research is the way to start in order to switch production in time.
+ Bill
Carbon_Copy seems correct. The granary game did best with 15 cities and 4 settlers at 1000 B. C. The other two games had fewer cities with 12 cities for settlers only, 13 cities for settler-granary. So on this map (and probably most maps with open land) granary first. By the way, it was warrior-warrior-granary and the lux slider did get up to 50%
I got pottery free from the hut, but otherwise, pottery at 100% research is the way to start in order to switch production in time.+ Bill
Rellin
Norrathian Gnome
I am a little fuzzy on how the lux slider works. I normally build granary and sometimes I end up with a entertainer in a city (I use governor to manage moods as I am not good enough, nor wish to spend the time doing all that stuff at this stage in my gaming). So when I see this I will slide the lux slider up in hopes that he will turn into a content worker. This doesn't seem to work in the F1 screen where it lists all the cities and citizen/works happiness levels. I had my slider at 100% and yet there was still an entertainer in on of my larger cities and one unhappy person in another.
Could anyone please explain or point out a good post explaining exactly how the luxary slider works?
Could anyone please explain or point out a good post explaining exactly how the luxary slider works?
The lux slider takes a certain percentage of a city's uncorrupted commerce and applies it to making people happy. I'm not sure how much commerce is needed per happy face though. If you look at the city screen it will show how much commerce is devoted to luxury underneath the tax and beaker amounts. So basically a city that produces a lot of uncorrupted commerce will benefit more from moving up the lux slider than a city that produces less. And completely corrupt cities get almost no benefit at all from lux sliders so you might as well just assign entertainers there if they're needed. In the early game though none of your cities should be corrupt so the lux slider is almost always better than assigning entertainers.
Moving the lux slider won't convert a specialist (entertainer/scientist/taxman) to a productive citizen. What you have to do is go to the city and place the citizen on a tile yourself, then go to the F1 screen and move the lux slider up until at least as many citizens in the city are happy as unhappy.
Renata
Renata
BillChin
Prince
- Joined
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- 494
There is a one turn delay between moving the slider and seeing the reassignment of citizens. However, the reassignment is good for the next turn and you do get the shields/gold/food immediately. If a player is using governors, move the slider until the gold is enough to keep the city out of disorder. It is more effective to turn off the governors, and do it by hand, but it is micromanaging (as is using the slider).
+ Bill
+ Bill
Rellin
Norrathian Gnome
After posting above I thought to myself, why don't I ever try to manage my own happiness and production, a lot of other people do it, I should try. So I did, and I loved it. After messing around with it a bit I got to be able to manage my cities very quickly (30 cities total so far in game after crushing Carthage) with the F1 screen to check and then clicking name to zoom into city if it needed tweaking. My cities were much more productive and I felt as though I am now playing the game to its fullest. Just thought I would come back and share that so that anyone else using governors may also try. It had always been daunting before but once I understood luxaries and how content people mean nothing it wasn't bad at all.
Hello all first time post here so be nice
This seems like a good spot to ask this question sense a couple of good people seem to be watching this thread. I was just curious if all of you controll each of your own workers, or do you ever automate them? Sorry if this is not the place for this question.
Thanks
Nevlok
This seems like a good spot to ask this question sense a couple of good people seem to be watching this thread. I was just curious if all of you controll each of your own workers, or do you ever automate them? Sorry if this is not the place for this question.
Thanks
Nevlok
Hello, Nevlok. I answered your question in the Newbie Thread here.
Welcome to CFC!
BTW, since this thread is about City Locations, it's not polite to "threadjack" it to ask a question about worker usage, although the nice folks here will probably answer it anyway.
Especially since they've already gone off-topic discussing the Lux Slider. 
I answered your question in the Newbie Thread here.Welcome to CFC!
BTW, since this thread is about City Locations, it's not polite to "threadjack" it to ask a question about worker usage, although the nice folks here will probably answer it anyway.
Especially since they've already gone off-topic discussing the Lux Slider. 
