Need my game critiqued by the experts

[Bestbank Tiger]

I attached the starting position and the saves from 3000 and 2000 BC. Game log so far:

4000-Set science at 60%, luxuries at 40
3960-Founded Washington'
3940-Began researching Code of Laws. 2nd settler started building roads around Washington
3760-Discovered CoL, began to research Writing, completed Phalanx and started building barracks
3480-Completed Barracks, began building settlers
3400-Discovered Writing, started on Literacy
3320-Founded New York
3280-Herodotus Power Ratings--5th place/Puny
3200-Washington finished Settlers, started building library
3180-Celtic civ destroyed by Barbarians
3140-Discovered Literacy, began researching Republic
3120-NY finishes Phalanx, starts library
2940-Discovered Republic, began researching Ceremonial Burial, triggered revolution
2900-Became Speaker of the new Amernica Republic, set sliders to 0/7/3
2800-Discovered CerBur, began Mysticism
2700-Founded Philadelphia, started building phalanx
2640-Discovered Mysticism, started on Philosophy
2520-Washington completed library and started settlers, Philly started Colossus
2500-Discovered Philosophy, took free advance (Currency), started Masonry
2420-Discovered Masonry, began Trade
2300-Washington completes Settlers, started Marketplace
2260-Discovered Trade, began Mathematics
2160-Discovered Math, began Astronomy, Russian civ destroyed by Babylonians
2020-English & Babylonians start Pyramids
2000-Discovered Astronomy, started researching Construction

Thanks!!

 

[Ali Ardavan]

I have not looked at your saved games, just your log.

3760-Discovered CoL, began to research Writing, completed Phalanx and started building barracks

Building a barracks that early is not a good idea. Building a Phalanx before you build the barracks makes no sense either.
At this stage you should be concerned with expansion. Use warriors for crowd control, defense, and exploration.

3200-Washington finished Settlers, started building library

I love libraries, but this is too early. How many arrows are there in Washington? What is the contribution of this Library to science? Is it even positive considering its cost of 1 coin? Similar comments apply to the marketplace you started in -2300.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

I attached the starting position and the saves from 3000 and 2000 BC. Game log so far:

4000-Set science at 60%, luxuries at 40

Why set the luxuries to 405? You're not getting any benefit from them that early on. In your 2000BC save they only add one happy person to the mix.

3960-Founded Washington'
3940-Began researching Code of Laws. 2nd settler started building roads around Washington

You only need one or two roads for the city to work early on.

3760-Discovered CoL, began to research Writing, completed Phalanx and started building barracks

IMHO, Too early for a barracks.

I played a real quick game to 3000 BC.

I realized that I played it in MPG, where Classic would be much better for when you meet other civs. I also didn't pay attention to getting a couple of the cities to celebrate when I should have (see Boston). Marco Polo will be built next turn and then the Caravan deliveries would start. That's when the game really takes off.

Huts were kind of a pain. Horse from the first, barb from the second one. Horseman just popped a hut and 6 came out. He killed three on his way down.

I also defaulted back to my HOF type city placement. I should have built the cities closer together, but I haven't made that habit yet.

Anyway, the save:

 

[Bestbank Tiger]

Thanks for the replies!!

I started at 0/6/4 because I didn't need any taxes yet and I wanted science as high as possible; I built the Phalanx because I didn't want to leave the city undefended, and the Barracks were because there wasn't really anything else to build yet.

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

Thanks for the replies!!

I started at 0/6/4 because I didn't need any taxes yet and I wanted science as high as possible; I built the Phalanx because I didn't want to leave the city undefended, and the Barracks were because there wasn't really anything else to build yet.

What you don't need are luxuries - only use enough luxuries to keep your citizens content or celebrating (depending on you situation) and even then when you are in despotism early in the game, there are much more efficient ways of maintaining happiness (warriors for garrison). Judging by your timeline you were in a low enough difficulty level that even that should not have been necessary. On the other hand, you can always use tax revenue - even if you don't use it right away, you can keep it in your treasury until you do. One of the best lessons I learned early on (thank you, Smash) was that gold is meant to be spent. if you use it to rush build things (or incrementally rush build things), you get them done sooner, start the next thing sooner, and most importanly you can get the value from them sooner- which leads into my second point - don't build something if it doesn't provide you value! There is always something you can build to make your civ stronger, and barracks are not it at that point. Early in the game like that, there is NOTHING more important than building settlers to expand your base. More cities =more production, more trade (more research, more taxes), more territory controlled.

I haven't looked at the save files, but it looks like the Libraries and markets are being built before they provide you with enough benefit. If you're lucky they might be replacing their maintenance cost so you break even, but not much beyond that.

I'm also interested why you chose to go directly to republic. Going to monarchy is often a preferable path in the early game because it allows more exploration and growth due to the reduced support (sheild as well as food for settlers). Republic also is harder to keep the citizens happy because you often don't have the trade base for luxuries to efficiently keep them happy and you can have unhappiness from units in the field while you are still trying to grow and explore.

I am a huge fan of Early Republic (and very early libraries) in OCC games, but not in a more "normal" multi-city growth game.

Again, i haven't seen the games, but the log mentions no caravans being built after you discover Trade. You should start caravan production shortly after you get this tech (or better yet, have production going into units already and then switch to caravans so they come out even sooner) either to send out for lucrative trade deliveries, or to build wonders. When in doubt build either a settler/engineer or a caravan/freight.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

I started at 0/6/4 because I didn't need any taxes yet

Happiness is not accumulated; money is. I did not even notice this as I was reading your log till Duke pointed it out.

I built the Phalanx because I didn't want to leave the city undefended

Barbarians do not show up that early in the game, so leaving your first city undefended is not that big a deal. If you have to defend it, or put down unrest, use warriors which are cheaper to produce. Every little bit counts specially that early in the game.

and the Barracks were because there wasn't really anything else to build yet.

Unless you are playing OCC, at the beginning you should be producing settlers and often nothing but.

Having said all this, the best critic of your game is yourself when you have something to compare it against. That is what GOTMs are for. And that is how most went from good players to great players. GOTM 67 was just posted; join.

 

[Bestbank Tiger]

Early in the game like that, there is NOTHING more important than building settlers to expand your base. More cities =more production, more trade (more research, more taxes), more territory controlled.

I'm also interested why you chose to go directly to republic. Going to monarchy is often a preferable path in the early game because it allows more exploration and growth due to the reduced support (sheild as well as food for settlers). Republic also is harder to keep the citizens happy because you often don't have the trade base for luxuries to efficiently keep them happy and you can have unhappiness from units in the field while you are still trying to grow and explore.

When in doubt build either a settler/engineer or a caravan/freight.

I made the jump to Republic in hopes of speeding up science--I could be wrong about that, since I just started playing again after several years.

Anyway, thanks for the info!! It's very helpful--I tend to start out slowly and catch up with the AI later in the game, and I won't be able to get away with that on the higer levels.

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

Having said all this, the best critic of your game is yourself when you have something to compare it against. That is what GOTMs are for. And that is how most went from good players to great players. GOTM 67 was just posted; join.

This is good advice as well. GOTM67 is a King game and there are not often many GOTMs much below that level. King will probably be a shock to you if it's the first time you've played it, and you won't be able to start as slowly as you do here but just try to remember what we've said, and expand very quickly (it will feel reckless at first, but trust me, you can get used to it ). You may not even win the game, but you should be able to learn from the experience and by looking at others' games in the same situation. You might also consider looking at the games from some of the previous months.

 

[Igor Galochkin]

Well, I can't say I am much of a pro, but still some comments.

>4000-Set science at 60%, luxuries at 40

As the guys said, no use to set 40% lux at despotism. At most you can get +1 trade for each tile which already produces 1 or more trade. But overall your science & gold income will be lower than with plain tax=40%, sci=60%

>3960-Founded Washington'

Founded it on a bad spot. Missed the whales nearby. Apparently, Washington doesn't use any special resourses. You should have founded it 1 tile to south-east.


>3940-Began researching Code of Laws. 2nd settler started building roads around Washington

One road on an already populated tile would be enough before going to found new city. If you had founded Washington on whales, you even wouldn't need to improve any tiles and could go right away to found a new city.

>3760-Discovered CoL, began to research Writing, completed Phalanx and started building barracks

I don't like rushing for Republic, cuz it's hard to keep them happy (on Deity level, I mean), and settlers eat too much. Usually, I never toggle to Republic until I build Michelangelo's Chapel. But on easier levels early switch to Republic makes sense, and it seems to be the best strategy. Your decision is very good. However, building a barrack when you have just 1 city is bad. You waste precious turns and don't build new cities as fast as possible.

>3480-Completed Barracks, began building settlers

Yeah.

>3400-Discovered Writing, started on Literacy
>3320-Founded New York

again on bad spot. Didn't use fish or buffalo.

>3280-Herodotus Power Ratings--5th place/Puny
>3200-Washington finished Settlers, started building library

NO! Another settler! (or another phalanx, if you fear barbs, but this is Warlord, so they are weak). Library will cost the same as 2 settlers, but 2 cities are much better than just some library and 1 more point of science at the cost of 1 gold of support.

>3180-Celtic civ destroyed by Barbarians
>3140-Discovered Literacy, began researching Republic
>3120-NY finishes Phalanx, starts library

should have started settler

>2940-Discovered Republic, began researching Ceremonial Burial, triggered revolution

don't see much sense in CerBur here, cuz you are playing on Warlord. There won't be any riots until your cities are 6 (or 7) in size.

>2900-Became Speaker of the new Amernica Republic, set sliders to 0/7/3

Maybe you would get more if you triggered celebrations and saw your cities grow rapidly by setting 0/4/6 any manually placing some of the citizens to ocean or tiles with roads. 30% doesn't make sense, cuz you hardly make any citizen happy with that and still lose some trade for luxuries.

>2800-Discovered CerBur, began Mysticism
>2700-Founded Philadelphia, started building phalanx

Philadelphia was founded on a good place, but I would place it one tile to south-west on river-plains tile to add 50% defense bonus to the city just in case.

>2640-Discovered Mysticism, started on Philosophy

Yeah, this makes sense, cuz Phil would give a free advace..

>2520-Washington completed library and started settlers, Philly started Colossus

Too early for a wonder. Also, the city has only 3 shields! You should start wonders in a city with at least 5-6 shields unless you have trade and many of you cities produce caravans to speed up the wonder.

>2500-Discovered Philosophy, took free advance (Currency), started Masonry

Currency is good if you wish to get celebrations at lower lux rate after you build Marketplaces everywere. Your choice of Masonry is also fair, cuz you can get Pyramids.

>2420-Discovered Masonry, began Trade

Makes sense, too. Since this is Warlord, AI civs won't be much of a threat, so in this position I would just rush for Democracy to get an effective peaceful government ASAP.

>2300-Washington completes Settlers, started Marketplace

Too early, need more settlers to found new cities.

>2260-Discovered Trade, began Mathematics

Since you haven't yet met enemy civs, you don't need catapults. I would rush for Democracy here.

>2160-Discovered Math, began Astronomy, Russian civ destroyed by Babylonians

the same. Astronomy doesn't lead to anything useful right now.

>2020-English & Babylonians start Pyramids

If this were Deity I would be very nervous here and would change Colossus to Pyramids immediately and bought them or something.

>2000-Discovered Astronomy, started researching Construction

A fair choice, cuz you will need aqueducts if you trigger celebrations. Also, Construction leads to Democracy..

In general, you should have built only settlers and phalaxes in the begginning of the game. Your choice of techs to research is a bit chaotic. I suppose that with an easy level the most reasonable research goal is Democracy, then Sanitation, then Explosives, then Refrigeration. Your folks are extremely happy, so why not use this for a spectacular population boost...

 

[Bestbank Tiger]

a few weeks ago.

I'm just finishing a game where I followed some of the advice in the thread, and I did much better--Tim's advice to switch to Monarchy instead of Republic, and Ali's advice to crank out settlers early both helped big time.

I have a 400-point spaceship on the way, a population of over 50M, and 21 or 22 wonders with the Manhattan Project coming soon. I have a surplus of over 1,000 per turn and plan on cranking up luxuries even further in the next turn or two.

I was so dominant that all six AI rivals hated me, and they each sneak-attacked me at least once. I stomped the Incas out of existence. The first time the Ned Lamonts in the Senate stopped me when I was on my way to capture a city, but after they did it again I got resolutions supporting "peacekeeping" against them. The Israelites did it three times, and each time I took a couple of their cities. Slow learners obviously

 

[ElephantU]

I gather you modded your civ list to include other civs like Incas and Israelites (not Israelis?). What others have you added?

 

[Bestbank Tiger]

I gather you modded your civ list to include other civs like Incas and Israelites (not Israelis?). What others have you added?

I also added the Arabs, Canadians, and Gangstaz to the game. Yes, it was the Israelites (Biblical) and not the Israelis (modern). I just added a block of civs at the bottom because the game chooses from the first 21...if I want to use the custom civs, I move them up, and if I want to use the regular civs I move the custom ones down.

In this particular game, the Arabs got wiped out early and respawned as the Chinese. I didn't use the Canadians because the computer chose the male leader instead of Shania, so I picked the Mongols as my opponent.

One quirk was I typed the Incas incorrectly so at first they were the Inca and the adjective was "-1" so their cities didn't have names. Once I figured out what was wrong, I fixed it and their new cities had the right names.

Another quirk was I (the Zulus) used up all the names and had to go into the extras...so did the Israelites, so we had cities with the same names. I changed the first letter of my new cities to Z to distinguish them.

 

[Bestbank Tiger]

Landed my spaceship in 1888...finished with a population of over 68 million and a civ rating of 100%.

Could have been better but I left a lot of possible future tech points on the table--I shut down my science to focus on luxuries and the taxes needed for my war machine, since the AI was so untrustworthy by the end of the game.

 

[Millman]

Oh, not a suspicious AI, anything but that.

I agree, I only build temples or libraries in the beginning to keep them happy. I do what I 'need' to do in the beginning compared to what I 'want' to do.

 

[starlifter]

I agree, I only build temples or libraries in the beginning to keep them happy.

Just to avoid confusion... the library affects only science, not happiness. Colleseums will help happiness, as will Cathedrals. If one sets luxuries (wither through the TLS slider or via Entertainers), then a Marketplace (and Banks and Stock Exchanges) will each amplify the effect of luxuries by 50% (truncated down for fractions).

A good rule of thumb for early Republic at high levels of difficulty (e.g., Diety or higher) to have Michelangelo's Chapel. This wonder is the key for early game WLTP growth, and with Hanging Gardens, you can get to size 7 in most cases in your core early republic cities without great difficulty... then reduce the TLS luxuries & increase Sci/Tax after the growth phase is complete.

 

[civdood]

TimTheEnchanter
I...am...an Enchanter!

Civdood chant TimTimTim. U enchant! Thank U and Ali and Starlifter and Duke and big Elefant man for enchanting advice. Now Civdood can land spaceship before 1900 in diety when that never seemed human to do. U b da bomb.